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[JP]

1. Never put your credit card on PSN
2. Never put your credit card on PSN
3. Always use prepaid cards

If people really want to remain as secure as possible then they really shouldn't be leaving their credit card details with any retailer.

It's impossible to be 100% secure because if you were you wouldn't be able to access your own details either but there are options available to people to add additional layers of security so that it makes it more difficult for things to go wrong.

It's terrifying just how few people take all the available precautions online, even people on places like here.

 

[Gxgear]

OP must have missed the last few threads where people had their PSN accounts banned for chargebacks.

It does sounds like 2yr of PS+ were purchased (auto renewal + manual), csr probably neglected to verify. I've had better experiences with Sony live chat, but they're definitely among the worst.

 

[messiaen]

Still amazes me to this day that Sony are in such good graces with the public image but have the absolute worst customer service.

 

[Purest 78]

1. Never put your credit card on PSN
2. Never put your credit card on PSN
3. Always use prepaid cards

Never put your Card on Anything unless it's mandatory.

 

[Spyware]

To anyone calling it double charge/double billing: It wasn't.
OP bought the PS+ sub (the "item") two times, one on purpose and the other not. Had it been double billing (two charges on the same purchase, only one "item" but paying for two) it shouldn't have been hard for them to give the extra money they took in credits at the least.
But now he bought two "items", got the two "items" and failed to ask for a refund during the specified time frame. Support just can't do anything in such a situation, their hands are tied and so on.

I don't see how this is terrible customer service. Is customer service only good if it goes against the rules of the company? Or are you saying that every company needs to have unlimited refund times to be good? That they should allow chargebacks that hurt their company? I don't get it.

Hard to say if the support people were good or bad since we didn't actually get to know what they told OP, we just got some sarcastic stuff that implies OP thought they were bad for doing pretty much what they were told to do (repeat the information that applies in the current case - in this one that was "it's been too long for a refund").

Anyways, hope you get your account back swiftly now that you've payed again.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

And this is why i dont trust sony!

 

[Besthelboy]

That sucks man, really bad policy.

 

[Hugstable]

When was this? Within the last 4 years?

If so, did they prevent you from downloading and/or playing your old games?

I've had the same happen to me before as well around 3 or so years ago. And they did not allow me to download or play my old games, my account was completely banned. If they finally stopped doing that now, that's awesome, but I was basically forced to have to start a brand new steam account when I already had 80 games on another one because of that shit.

 

[ReBurn]

Sony double billed me for a PS3 repair and didn't want to refund me because I notified them more than 15 days after the charge. Had separate confirmation numbers and everything. I argued with em for about two hours before I called Amex and let them handle it. Got my $79 back.

I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have just settled for two years of PS+ if they double billed me for the service. I wouldn't have settled for anything less.

 

[iamruthless]

I had the exact same thing happen to me last month. I had an unauthorized purchase on my account for $30 through paypal. I called Sony and they told me they didn't see anything that looked suspicious. I asked for a refund through paypal and it was issued within the hour. Sony didn't like this and my account was banned for having a "negative balance". They told me the only way to reinstate it was to buy the psn cards and read them over the phone. I did that and it was reactivated after 24 hours. It was a headache, but they ended up refunding me the fraudulent charges, so after everything I lost a day of playstation vue.

TLDR; Don't worry, it's legit. Just pay with the psn cards and your account should be back up in 24 hours, then you can pursue a refund.

 

[Mindlog]

If people really want to remain as secure as possible then they really shouldn't be leaving their credit card details with any retailer.

Most online retailers aren't as aggressively spiteful to the customer when dealing with fraud and security issues.

 

[GRIMREEFZ]

this happened to me - is u do a chargeback with sony they ban the account until its paid - u should probably just pay it and get your account back - youll be good on ps+ for twice as long too!

 

[JP]

Most online retailers aren't as aggressively spiteful to the customer when dealing with fraud and security issues.

Suspension is standard practice for the vast majority of online retailers when you enforce a chargeback claim though. It is the standard way with dealing the default accusation that you've made and although some retailers don't do that, it is a tiny minority that don't and you are very lucky if you get away with it after enforcing a chargeback.

Enforcing a chargeback removed the retailer from the transaction, your credit card company will forcefully remove funds from that retailer. By enforcing a chargeback you instructing the retailer that you are severing ties with them and ending your relationship with them.

There seems to be such a misunderstanding of what chargebacks are on here and I really wish that people stopped thinking of them as refund requests and investigated what they actually are before enforcing the orders.

I also wish that finial institutions would advise their customers of the potential fallout of what they were doing by enforcing such an order. People should not be doing chargebacks unless they are doing them for the very specific reasons that they exist for.

The word "spiteful" is so out of place here, nonce that this has been carried out the retailer is under no obligation to deal with that customer again. I'd bet that the vast majority of companies wouldn't even entertain the thought of doing that for a customer who has taken such extreme actions. A chargeback is a major action and notification for the customer that they are termination their relationship with that particular retailer.

In this specific situation they are willing to remove what has happened simply by the OP covering the costs of the digital item that he/she has taken from them and then forcibly removed the payment for.

The very definition of a subscription is that it is not a one off item but it repeats when the initial period comes to an end. Even if the OP didn't understand the meaning he was informed of this when he subscribed.

It's a shame that they're in this situation but everything that has happened in the first post is purely the result of actions taken by the OP. Nothing that Sony, in this case, has done is out of the ordinary for such an extreme action apart them being willing to let him remedy what he/she has done by paying for the digital goods that he has taken from them.

I and others seem to have repeated the same information so many time on here but people really need to try and understand what enforcing a chargeback really means when you do it and what can and probably will result from taking such extreme measures. I'm bewildered by the fact that credit card companies don't seem to explain adequately to their customers what such an action entails.

This will happen again and again on here as people seem to see chargebacks as a refund request, as the easy option when in reality you are giving them permission to say goodbye to you and never have dealings with you again.

 

[FirewalkR]

There seems to be such a misunderstanding of what chargebacks are on here and I really wish that people stopped thinking of them as refund requests and investigated what they actually are before enforcing the orders.

I also wish that finial institutions would advise their customers of the potential fallout of what they were doing by enforcing such an order. People should not be doing chargebacks unless they are doing them for the very specific reasons that they exist for.

What, then, is the proper alternative to a chargeback? How can a customer have their money back? Legit asking, I'd like to know.

Also, ending a relationship between customer and service provider has different consequences when you've created a library of "goods" through several business transactions with the provider, goods which are (or at least should be) _yours_ and all of a sudden you're deprived of their usage. Seems to me there's laws that haven't caught up with the times yet.

 

[gafneo]

Use teargas...

How many CS people you talk to? They all say diff things each time you call.

 

[Spyware]

What, then, is the proper alternative to a chargeback? How can a customer have their money back? Legit asking, I'd like to know.

In a case such as this? Probably in no other way. It's a mistake you just have to live with. You got the stuff you paid for and "failed" to return one item in time for a refund.
You could try to take it to the media but that can go either way.

In a case where you actually get double billed (paying for two items but getting one), talking to them should work. If not you have the law on your side instead so that's much easier to escalate if the company is stupid, especially through the media.

 

[theangrypirate]

You know, Its really easy to disable automatic renewal for PS+ and you can avoid this whole situation.

This really is not Sony's fault. As countless others have pointed out, you should not have done a charge back. You are the one who had auto renewal enabled. You had plenty of warnings before hand emailed to you that you were going to renew. Try and take care of things before the last 5 minutes and this wouldn't be an issue. Sony customer service rep could have helped out more sure but if you were having trouble with one rep just politely hang up and try another.

 

[thesaint08]

Most online retailers aren't as aggressively spiteful to the customer when dealing with fraud and security issues.

Luckily, there was no fraud or security issue. The OP made a mistake.

 

[Tigress]

absolutely never do a chargeback for PSN stuff

More like don't buy things digitally through PSN cause it's ridiculous how Sony treats shit like this.

 

[JP]

What, then, is the proper alternative to a chargeback? How can a customer have their money back? Legit asking, I'd like to know.

Also, ending a relationship between customer and service provider has different consequences when you've created a library of "goods" through several business transactions with the provider, goods which are (or at least should be) _yours_ and all of a sudden you're deprived of their usage. Seems to me there's laws that haven't caught up with the times yet.

It is literally end of the line stuff.

Imagine that you've bought something from, I don't know, Amazon? You pay £50 for something and just after you've done that they cease trading and you've not received the goods that you've paid for.

That could be a case when enforcing a chargeback is suitable because you are already at the end of the line.

That's not the only time it would be suitable but I think it gives an illustration of what "the end of the line" really means.

If Sony had taken money from the OP's credit card without permission then that would be a suitable reason to enforce a chargeback. That hasn't happened here, although the OP didn't want them to take the additional funds he did actually give them permission to take them even though he/she didn't seem to understand that they'd done that.

If you enforce one in a situation as has happened in this thread, which is due to your own error and you haven't reached the end of the escalation process then you are essential bringing "the end of the line" to your relationship with that company.

By doing a chargeback you are essentially accusing that company of wrong doing and although it over simplifies things you're pretty much accusing them of illegally taking your money.

Of course, there will always companies that are accessions to the rule but for me to consider enforcing a chargeback I would really have to be absolutely certain that I'd exhausted all means at my disposal before taking such extreme action.

It's worth noting that in any situation that you request a chargeback you are removing the company from the conversation. Your credit card company would forcefully take it from their registered banking system. By excluding that company from the process it's unlikely that they're going to be willing to play nicely with you after somebody has essentially gone into their account and taken money from them and accused them of taking that money
without permission.

It's probably worth mentioning also that there are no guarantees with a chargeback, your credit card company isn't obliged to do anything if you request a chargeback as it's not the standard process to deal with refunds.

I'm pretty sure that it's been mentioned on here before but if you've paid for something via Paypal and then made a chargeback request you can get yourself in all sorts of problems. The difference would be in the situation in this thread if he had paid with PayPal and did chargeback for this the chargeback would be issued against PayPal rather than Sony because that's who your credit card is connected too.

I've read things where PayPal have been involved like this and they've locked that PayPal account and even revoked earlier payments that were also funded with the same credit card which means that you could end up with loads of companies being on the end of this single chargeback.

One of the issues with chargeback is that chargeback fraud is a massive source of loss for companies across the globe and there are companies that have been set up purely to protect companies from chargeback fraud. A quick google search will probably bring up numbers for different countries.

It's a massive business and the vast majority won't even entertain customers who do chargebacks once the customer has declared that it is the end of the line for them.

I don't know what legal obligations credit card companies have in relation to explain the issues that will probably be caused by issuing chargebacks but I would suggest that they certainly have a moral responsibility to educate any customers who request one. One of the issues is that credit companies have no interest in the reason for the chargeback, they are going to speak to which ever company you've registered it against. They will just go in there and force your money from them, it's up to you as the customer top decide whether it's suitable or not.

EDIT:
Damn, that's a lot of work and probably not very well organised either.

 

[Sad Affleck]

You don't actually own the games. You've never actually owned the game. You are granted a license to play the game. You agree that Sony can revoke access to these licenses at any time for just about any reason when you buy them. No one has ever tried bringing this to court because no one wants to spend the large amount of legal fees to fight over video games.

That doesn't matter at all. I bought a licence for a game, right? I paid Sony 30% for the delivery of said game and 70% to the publisher. What right does the delivery service have to invalidate my purchase?

 

[JP]

I'm adding this as a separate post because it'll just get lost in the mess of text in my last post.

I'M NOT AN EXPERT AT THIS STUFF, it's nothing to do with my profession and I don't deal with people who have anything to do with this stuff.

How do I know this stuff? I was in a position a couple of years ago where I was advised to do a chargeback and I was advised by a friend of the extremity of that action. Because of this I've spent time looking into what a chargeback was because I didn't want to do something stupid and was surprised by what I found.

If "experts", people who do work with this stuff see mistakes in what I've said then please correct it, I imagine that you know a lot more than I do. Cheers.

 

[therapist]

sad , fuckin sony.

This is why i dont go digital with sony , they have awful customer service when something goes wrong. Awful.

also removed all my cc info from my ps account because fuck em

So your system has been unplayable since august? That is insane.

 

[Maz]

Contact your bank and ask if they have sms service whenever a card is used. I get the following whenever anything happens:

Trx. of USD xxxx on your card ending **5082 at AMAZON.COM AMZN.COM/BI in SEATTLE, United States Approved. Avl card bal is xxxxx

Dear Customer, ATM Cash Withdrawal for xxxxx was debited from your account ****4824. Your Avl Bal is xxxxz

Dear Customer, xxxxz was credited to your account ****4824. Your available account balance is xxxxxx

I recommend everyone to register for a service like this. I know within seconds if any money was used in a credit card, withdrawn, transfered, or received from any of my accounts.

This won't help you with your current problem, but you should easily avoid falling into a similar situation in the future.

 

[Dark_3nergy]

The other takeaway should be to always disable automated renewal.

Yup, this is why I buy the PlayStation Plus cards and only use those to renew.


Ninja Edit: I also use what the above poster, Maz, uses. Every morning I get a statement for my Checking Account Balance, Credit Card Balance, ATM Withdraw, or Scheduled Payment. Every time a transaction takes place on said CC and Checking Account, I get a email pop up on my phone that tells me it was charged almost 5 seconds later. With time stamps and the whole 9 yards. It's really helped me to keep track of where my money goes.

 

[Tigress]

You don't actually own the games. You've never actually owned the game. You are granted a license to play the game. You agree that Sony can revoke access to these licenses at any time for just about any reason when you buy them. No one has ever tried bringing this to court because no one wants to spend the large amount of legal fees to fight over video games.

And this is why I don't buy digital unless it is dirt cheap. Especially not from Sony (which kinda sux since Sony is who I have my game system through and with Vita many games aren't offered physically). Sure, you could argue technically it's true with physical (I think there is something about it still being a license to use the game) but it's not worth their time/effort to take physical away where as with DRM that uses an account to verify all they have to do is ban the account.

And then when you have all these games attached to your account, they can act like Sony. Nope, we won't help you and if you try other methods we will hold all games you bought digitally hostage. It's no skin off their back (costs them little to nothing to ban the account) and for them there is little reason not to (especially when Sony has seen they do this all the time and it hasn't stopped people from buying from them.. the only way it would be bad for Sony).

Sure, other companies are at least more honorable (Sony really is shit on this) but it still gives them that power.

Which is why GoG is the only one I'd pay full price for a game from. Hell, I wouldn't even mind DRM if they used DRM that didn't require linking to an account and having a valid account.

 

[Mindlog]

Suspension is standard practice for the vast majority of online retailers when you enforce a chargeback claim though. It is the standard way with dealing the default accusation that you've made and although some retailers don't do that, it is a tiny minority that don't and you are very lucky if you get away with it after enforcing a chargeback.

Enforcing a chargeback removed the retailer from the transaction, your credit card company will forcefully remove funds from that retailer. By enforcing a chargeback you instructing the retailer that you are severing ties with them and ending your relationship with them.

There seems to be such a misunderstanding of what chargebacks are on here and I really wish that people stopped thinking of them as refund requests and investigated what they actually are before enforcing the orders.

I also wish that finial institutions would advise their customers of the potential fallout of what they were doing by enforcing such an order. People should not be doing chargebacks unless they are doing them for the very specific reasons that they exist for.

The word "spiteful" is so out of place here, nonce that this has been carried out the retailer is under no obligation to deal with that customer again. I'd bet that the vast majority of companies wouldn't even entertain the thought of doing that for a customer who has taken such extreme actions. A chargeback is a major action and notification for the customer that they are termination their relationship with that particular retailer.

In this specific situation they are willing to remove what has happened simply by the OP covering the costs of the digital item that he/she has taken from them and then forcibly removed the payment for.

The very definition of a subscription is that it is not a one off item but it repeats when the initial period comes to an end. Even if the OP didn't understand the meaning he was informed of this when he subscribed.

It's a shame that they're in this situation but everything that has happened in the first post is purely the result of actions taken by the OP. Nothing that Sony, in this case, has done is out of the ordinary for such an extreme action apart them being willing to let him remedy what he/she has done by paying for the digital goods that he has taken from them.

I and others seem to have repeated the same information so many time on here but people really need to try and understand what enforcing a chargeback really means when you do it and what can and probably will result from taking such extreme measures. I'm bewildered by the fact that credit card companies don't seem to explain adequately to their customers what such an action entails.

This will happen again and again on here as people seem to see chargebacks as a refund request, as the easy option when in reality you are giving them permission to say goodbye to you and never have dealings with you again.

No other retailer would leave me with 'purchase gift cards and enter the codes then maybe we'll consider looking into the matter' as one of the steps for reinstating my account. Sorry, I've simply never heard about that practice. Steam even backtracked from automatic chargeback suspensions. Making simple temporary concessions to an account that had been in good standing seems like a minimal effort that Sony isn't making. Their CS team simply isn't trained to deal with the issues in a customer first manner.

It is literally end of the line stuff.

Imagine that you've bought something from, I don't know, Amazon? You pay £50 for something and just after you've done that they cease trading and you've not received the goods that you've paid for.

I wouldn't be concerned. Amazon has always bent over backwards for me. If Amazon ran PSN and I ran into the OP's problem it would be resolved within days and 3 more months would be added to my PSN for free.

 

[Weebos]

Back in late August I was playing Rocket League with a friend. My PlayStation notified me that my Plus service was about to expire in 5 min and I would no longer be able to play the current game.

I immediately went into the store, reupped for a year, and was able to continue playing.

A month later I get my credit card statement. I was double billed. Called support, they explained an automatic charge went through even though I had paid for Plus manually. They refused to credit the charge because it had been longer than 15 days. "But credit card statements can arrive a month af...". "Silence!"

So, I escalate to a supe, get the same story, and just tell them I'll dispute through my credit card. We say our good byes.

I sign into my PlayStation today to find my account banned. Call support. "Oh, yeah, we ban for negative balances if your credit card charges back." "Wait, is that in your terms of service?" "Nope, lol!"

To resolve this, I have to go and purchase PlayStation gift cards. Call customer support back. Scratch off the foil, and read the numbers over the phone. They won't take any other form of payment. Until I do that, my system will remain locked.

It just all seems so.... sketchy.

Anyone in a similar situation find a better resolution?

Something similar happened to me OP, I was double-charged for a $100+ purchase on the store and spent several hours talking to support. Eventually I just gave up.

Not having to talk to their awful support anymore is worth $100 to me.

 

[JP]

No other retailer would leave me with 'purchase gift cards and enter the codes then maybe we'll consider looking into the matter' as one of the steps for reinstating my account. Sorry, I've simply never heard about that practice. Steam even backtracked from automatic chargeback suspensions. Making simple temporary concessions to an account that had been in good standing seems like a minimal effort that Sony isn't making. Their CS team simply isn't trained to deal with the issues in a customer first manner.

I wouldn't be concerned. Amazon has always bent over backwards for me. If Amazon ran PSN and I ran into the OP's problem it would be resolved within days and 3 more months would be added to my PSN for free.

OK.

Nothing I've stated runs counter to what you're claiming.

 

[Head.spawn]

Contact your bank and ask if they have sms service whenever a card is used. I get the following whenever anything happens:







I recommend everyone to register for a service like this. I know within seconds if any money was used in a credit card, withdrawn, transfered, or received from any of my accounts.

This won't help you with your current problem, but you should easily avoid falling into a similar situation in the future.

Yeah, I have alerts set-up to send notifications on damn near everything. Specifically, for payments, anything over $20 will send a notification... I guess someone could rob me blind slowly @ $19.99 over and over though, but I feel like I'm doing alright here.

 

[Maz]

Yeah, I have alerts set-up to send notifications on damn near everything. Specifically, for payments, anything over $20 will send a notification... I guess someone could rob me blind slowly @ $19.99 over and over though, but I feel like I'm doing alright here.

This sms service is worth every penny the bank charges, I got double charged at a store once and knew about it while still standing at the counter. Helps you avoid all kinds of problems, I get notification even for 10cents (Google play did this when I added my card, I even got the msg when the money was refunded).

 

[gypsygib]

That's one thing I have to give MS credit for, their customer service is much better than Sony's. It's not even close.

IME from owning a large number of Sony devices, their customer service is among the worst of all the major electronics companies.

 

[Tigress]

That's one thing I have to give MS credit for, their customer service is much better than Sony's. It's not even close.

IME from owning a large number of Sony devices, their customer service is among the worst of all the major electronics companies.

Judging from the stories I hear about Sony, it really isn't hard to beat Sony's CS.

 

[Curufinwe]

Still amazes me to this day that Sony are in such good graces with the public image but have the absolute worst customer service.

Yeah, I do chargebacks all the time on Steam and Xbox Live and Valve and MS actually send me gift baskets to say thank you, and they didn't want my money anyway.

 

[Unreal Champ]

Most online retailers aren't as aggressively spiteful to the customer when dealing with fraud and security issues.

Sony has been the only one I've ever dealt with like this.

Suspension is standard practice for the vast majority of online retailers when you enforce a chargeback claim though. It is the standard way with dealing the default accusation that you've made and although some retailers don't do that, it is a tiny minority that don't and you are very lucky if you get away with it after enforcing a chargeback.

I have never come across that before until Sony, so no its not standard.

 

[TaterTots]

That's terrible. I'm glad I don't pay to play online.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I had my CC on Psn foe three puchases

Never again. All future interactuond will be prepaid only.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I love how Sony automatically saves your credit card information every time you make a purchase too. On top of having the worst customer service in the industry to the point where victim blamers use the constant threads of Sony CS fucking people as actual ammunition against the newer victims, they don't even ask you if you are okay with having your credit card information stored.

 

[Wereroku]

I'll never forget catching a ban from PS Home for following people around with an ugly character (the ban reason was "harassment"), and finding myself completely banned from every single online PlayStation service over it. I couldn't even buy games.

So you were harassing people in PS home. Seems like a reasonable ban.

 

[Oneself]

Just because you have access to your statement online doesn't mean it is reasonable to expect everyone to constantly monitor it. You are victim blaming. Clearly Sony has some horrible, customer non-friendly policies, and this is one of them.

You telling me if you realize Sony has errantly charged you a few hundred bucks and you notice this 20 days after, you are cool with it? That's what you are saying.

Of course I'm sure you monitor your credit card account every couple days like a good consumer.

I do monitor it every 2 weeks, at least, because I mostly use my CC for automatic payments and for most transactions. I get a point for every dollar spent and can order a bunch of stuff every year using those points.
So, every 14 days I get my pay and transfer money over to my CC in order to avoid interest fees.