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[Mobius and pet octopus]

Steam doesn't make you go buy cards to scratch off to get your account back because they double charged you for some backwards-ass subscription service.

You would be lucky to get that option I think. I tried putting in a mere inquiry via paypal, something that starts a dispute but is not really disputing it (I think) and steam put immediate restrictions on my account and I was told I had to go through customer service if I had a problem. I imagine if I tried to charge back, I'd have gotten worse penalties. I couldn't use the store or sell stuff for like a week, which was rough as the steam sale was either coming up or on-going, I forget.

Steam isn't some angel that won't ban you if you charge back. And I know blizzard absolutely does it. What the OP is experiencing is not really abnormal from what I can tell.

 

[spwolf]

when you claim a fraudulent charge and request a chargeback, credit card processing company charges online vendor (Sony/MS/Steam/Anyone) a $20 fee, per chargeback. Most of credit card processing companies do not investigate claims (rare ones do) so in most cases if you request one, you will get it.

Because of that, online vendors ban accounts in order to prevent this to become a common occurrence or else they would go out of business.

Sorry to hear about the issues - did they credit 2 years of PS Plus to your account or just one?

 

[Caayn]

But that's the thing. Even if you've cancelled recurring charges, they automagically switch back if you change primary form of payment. It's in the small print.

Is this true? Because that sound sketchy as hell, and falls into scammers territory for me.

"Oh? You've got a new payment method? We'll allow me to automatically resubscribe you to a service you unsubscribed to." - Weird looking man with a hat and a long brown coat in a back alley.

 

[EmiPrime]

I didn't realise this thread was about Microsoft. Also, read my post. I'm not saying Sony should ignore a chargeback, I'm saying they should get better at dealing with these situations.

At some point it should be clear to support that they're not dealing with a fraudulent customer and they should support them appropriately.

Fair enough, I don't disagree.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

You were the one who decided to chargeback and lock yourself out instead of talking to Sony and asking them to refund the charge. Chargebacks are a last resort, not a first one.

This is pretty standard procedure for anyone who gets chargebacked. You did this to yourself, which I'm sure you don't want to hear. But in the future don't chargeback as your first option. That was a dumb move. Always talk to the company first. If they refuse to refund your money then you should look into a chargeback. But be aware that any company, not just Sony, is going to lock you out of an account you chargeback'd on. It's what they always do to keep themselves from being open to repeat financial abuse by malicious users.

Which is exactly what OP did.

 

[Cyanity]

...PC master race?

 

[KelpPlankton]

People seem confused about Steam but yes they absolutely will lock you out of your account for chargebacks too. Any major company with digital distribution will do this.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You were the one who decided to chargeback and lock yourself out instead of talking to Sony and asking them to refund the charge. Chargebacks are a last resort, not a first one.

This is pretty standard procedure for anyone who gets chargebacked. You did this to yourself, which I'm sure you don't want to hear. But in the future don't chargeback as your first option. That was a dumb move. Always talk to the company first. If they refuse to refund your money then you should look into a chargeback. But be aware that any company, not just Sony, is going to lock you out of an account you chargeback'd on. It's what they always do to keep themselves from being open to repeat financial abuse by malicious users.

Doesn't sound like it was his first action if he spoke to two separate individuals within Sony. That's just poor customer service. Their supervisors should have the ability, after speaking with a customer and explaining the situation, to reverse or override the charges. If they don't they should re-evaluate their policy. A customer shouldn't' have to jump through hoops to remedy a mistake.

 

[GoldenCrow]

I doubt that very much

In this case no the OP did it to themselves. But there are many stories where people have been told the only way they can get their money back is via CC chargebacks without being informed of the consequences. (not unique to sony though, pretty standard in that type of industry).

 

[KelpPlankton]

Which is exactly what OP did.

"look into" and "do a chargeback" are two different things. Chargebacks are big deals and will lock your account.

It's pretty clear he didn't even look up what would happen if he did a chargeback before doing it, he just went "sony dont like me so chargeback" and stumbled blindly into known consequences that people have discussed everywhere online.

It's his own fault for deciding to do this.

 

[Jebusman]

Again what annoys me about this is you lose access to all your digital content even though you have paid for them legitimately.

Even of you get your account locked down because of a chargeback Sony shouldn't be able to take away games you have paid for!

But that's the digital future we all willingly jumped into without stopping to think about the long term repercussions.

You don't "own" any single digital game. Or any game. You own a license, one that can be revoked at any time for any reason, to play that game for as long as the service is available and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Valve/etc. allows you to.

Issuing a chargeback is essentially telling them you no longer want to do business with them, so they in response end their business with you, by revoking those temporary licenses to your content (via just banning your account). It's what you agree to when you make the purchase, and while fuck knows if ANY of that is actually enforceable, no one has ever really tried to bring it to court to test it.

It sucks, but that's the digital future some people are willing to take the gamble on.

I don't disagree Sony could be doing a better job about it, but that's the digital future we allowed them to create. Even Valve isn't opposed to suspending accounts with thousands of dollars worth of games on them if you break certain rules. Thankfully they're just a little more lax about the chargeback one.

 

[icespide]

In this case no the OP did it to themselves. But there are many stories where people have been told the only way they can get their money back is via CC chargebacks without being informed of the consequences.

I don't doubt that happens but I don't think reps are intentionally trying to fuck over people that give them a hard time

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Poor customer service. Plain and simple

 

[NewDust]

I don't doubt that happens but I don't think reps are intentionally trying to fuck over people that give them a hard time

True, but also most reps try to stick to their scripts as much as possible. If you deviate to often, you can pack your stuff. CS probably is one of the most ungrateful jobs there is.

 

[Fdkn]

Nope, this doesnt happen with Steam. You will never lose access to your library over a chargeback.

I lost access to my library over a chargeback made by Paypal because they thought I was a victim of fraud (I wasn't of course)

I had to fight for weeks with the customer service of both platforms until I finally had to beg to the steamrep that if he gave me my account back I would buy the two games again at whatever price they were in that moment. (full price vs the original -75% sale) He even told me that I had '24 hours to do so or the ban would be definitive'

So yeah, never

 

[PetrCobra]

So they double bill you, insist on keeping the extra money, and then bully you for taking it back?

I'm so glad I'm not a Sony customer.

 

[dab0ne]

Stuff like this is why I go third party for Xbox/PS digital purchases. I'm always paranoid there'll be same mistake and I'll lose everything.

 

[epmode]

I lost access to my library over a chargeback made by Paypal because they thought I was getting stolen (I wasn't of course)

I had to fight for weeks with the customer service of both platforms until I finally had to beg to the steamrep that if he gave me my account back I would buy the two games again at whatever price they were in that moment. (full price vs the original -75% sale) He even told me that I had '24 hours to do so or the ban would be definitive'

So yeah, never

When was this? Within the last 4 years?

If so, did they prevent you from downloading and/or playing your old games?

 

[Goreomedy]

"look into" and "do a chargeback" are two different things. Chargebacks are big deals and will lock your account.

It's pretty clear he didn't even look up what would happen if he did a chargeback before doing it, he just went "sony dont like me so chargeback" and stumbled blindly into known consequences that people have discussed everywhere online.

It's his own fault for deciding to do this.

You're reaching, here.

I felt I had exhausted my options with Sony.

But you're right, I wasn't aware retaliation is the course of action for charging back an obvious double billing.

 

[UncleSporky]

Probably because it's a better threat for people making a purchase then doing a fraudulent chargeback.

Most people don't even know that a chargeback will result in a ban. We get a thread like this once every couple months. And these are people on Gaf, people who are supposed to be in the know.

 

[Fdkn]

When was this? Within the last 4 years?

If so, did they prevent you from downloading and/or playing your old games?

It was 2012, but can't remember if early or late. And yes, they blocked me out of my whole library.

 

[Rains]

Not gonna lie sony cs is the worst i have ever had to deal with they just don't give a shit once they have your money at all feel for you OP i do

 

[PetrCobra]

It was 2012, but can't remember if early or late. And yes, they blocked me out of my whole library.

Looks like GoG is the better option after all then. I always thought it didn't really matter but in this light it seems I was wrong.

 

[TheFatMan]

Most people don't even know that a chargeback will result in a ban. We get a thread like this once every couple months. And these are people on Gaf, people who are supposed to be in the know.

I feel like we get one of these every week.

Irregardless if is wrong or right, just about every digital distributor will react with a ban to their service over a charge back...

 

[GoldenCrow]

I don't doubt that happens but I don't think reps are intentionally trying to fuck over people that give them a hard time

Oh some definitely do. My friend use to work at a BT call centre when she was a student and when they got super aggressive callers they would often mess about with them on purpose. It is the entire reason I'm overly friendly to them, that and some companies have the ability to give certain services for free for periods of time or discounts.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Fair enough, I don't disagree.

I understand the company perspective. If they see a chargeback, they'll instinctively lock the account. I get that. No problem.

But ultimately, these companies have a LOT of records. They see our histories, at some stage, they'd HAVE to see that they're not dealing with a fraudulent customer and support appropriately.

I mentioned Sony because, well, the thread is about a customer and his PlayStation account. I mean, almost every time one of these threads pop up it's about Sony. So clearly, they need to get better at dealing with these situations.

 

[LowParry]

Situation was handle poorly on Sony. OP unfortunately handled the outcome poorly too.

 

[morpix]

You're reaching, here.

I felt I had exhausted my options with Sony.

But you're right, I wasn't aware retaliation is the course of action for charging back an obvious double billing.

Was it double-billing as in, you don't get twice the amount of PS+?
Or, you bought 1 year manually, and they auto-charged 1 year. So now you have 2 years of sub?

I mean, it's not ideal, but you said you're not fussed about the money. Weren't you gonna re-sub anyway?
Sorry if this sounds accusatory (It's not meant to come across that way). Just curious as to why you did a chargeback if you were gonna get the service anyway. If you needed the money, sure, fair enough.

 

[Aenima]

The other takeaway should be to always disable automated renewal.

This is the way to go.

In my case, i always use pre paid credit cards to buy something online. Yes, i have to update my credit card info for any new purchase i make, but gives me the piece of mind knowing that cards can only be charged 1 time. So no one can steal my money if hack in my accounts, or services that have auto renewal also cant collect extra from me.

 

[UncleSporky]

I understand the company perspective. If they see a chargeback, they'll instinctively lock the account. I get that. No problem.

But ultimately, these companies have a LOT of records. They see our histories, at some stage, they'd HAVE to see that they're not dealing with a fraudulent customer and support appropriately.

I mentioned Sony because, well, the thread is about a customer and his PlayStation account. I mean, almost every time one of these threads pop up it's about Sony. So clearly, they need to get better at dealing with these situations.

You know, that's true. There should be something like, if the user has been a member for over 1 year with no issues or registered complaints, and has spent over $200, and has logged a couple hours on their purchases...grant them some latitude, huh?

 

[epmode]

It was 2012, but can't remember if early or late. And yes, they blocked me out of my whole library.

OK, that might have been towards the end of Valve's old policy when they completely blocked accounts that started a chargeback. Here's a thread from late 2013 describing the new policy: http://steamcommunity.com/app/2870/discussions/0/630799997170574135/

 

[JP]

This is pretty standard to be honest.

A chargeback request is essential a notification to end service to whoever your requesting it against. The financial organisation that issued you the card should really be advising you of the potential ramifications of doing such a request.

A chargeback is not a refund request, it is essentially you stating that it's the end of the line and they should only be requested in very specific circumstances. They are designed to be used for example when you've paid a company for goods that then this company has gone out of business before you receive those goods.

Again, it's not a refund request and should never be treated as one. When you make a request against a company you're essentially telling them that you believe they've defaulted on something and that's why you're ending your relationship with them.

Not every company will end their relationship with you when you do a chargeback but the ones that don't are very much in the minority due to the amount of fraud that is committed via chargebacks.

All of this should have been explained to you by your financial institution but the from what people say on here that doesn't often happen, which is a real shame.

 

[Yagharek]

This is why I've stopped buying digital on Sony platforms. There's no point accumulating a digital library that is potentially undermined by lax security, inflexible policy or incompetent customer service.

I'll buy on disc instead.

 

[MUnited83]

People seem confused about Steam but yes they absolutely will lock you out of your account for chargebacks too. Any major company with digital distribution will do this.

Nope. They lock you out of community features and from activating/buying more games.
They don't take away your steam account or your game library.

I lost access to my library over a chargeback made by Paypal because they thought I was a victim of fraud (I wasn't of course)

I had to fight for weeks with the customer service of both platforms until I finally had to beg to the steamrep that if he gave me my account back I would buy the two games again at whatever price they were in that moment. (full price vs the original -75% sale) He even told me that I had '24 hours to do so or the ban would be definitive'

So yeah, never

That's not how it works for a while now, no.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I mean we weren't going to gleam this from your OP, where it sounded like you spoke to one rep, didn't like the answer, escalated it once then gave up and went nuclear.

If you want people to give you serious answers and/or serious advice, be a little less sarcastic about how they "screwed" you. It kind of helps.

Also, again, your best bet is either complain vocally via social media, or bite the bullet and buy one of those PSN cards. You've already made the chargeback move so there's not much you can undo about it.

It's real shitty but welcome to our digital future.

I get the impression you've never had the 'pleasure' of dealing with Sony customer service, if you can call it service. They're one of the most customer-hostile major companies I've ever had to deal with, at least as far as their customer support is concerned.

 

[TheContact]

PlayStation plus automatically renews to your CC. They make it pretty obvious. Sucks that you got double billed not knowing that, but it isn't their fault. They really should just deduct the time purchased and refund your money though. The ban is just a nasty play on their part. I'm glad I've never dealt with their CS. It sounds awful.

 

[iPaul93]

Sony customer support is shit as usual.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Just pay it in the method they demand. You don't really have any other options. I also recommend only using PSN cards for purchases from now on.

 

[TacosNSalsa]

The OP says your system is locked ...can you not get into your system at all or is it just your PSN account?

 

[harrisk954]

Back in late August I was playing Rocket League with a friend. My PlayStation notified me that my Plus service was about to expire in 5 min and I would no longer be able to play the current game.

I immediately went into the store, reupped for a year, and was able to continue playing.

A month later I get my credit card statement. I was double billed. Called support, they explained an automatic charge went through even though I had paid for Plus manually. They refused to credit the charge because it had been longer than 15 days. "But credit card statements can arrive a month af...". "Silence!"

So, I escalate to a supe, get the same story, and just tell them I'll dispute through my credit card. We say our good byes.

I sign into my PlayStation today to find my account banned. Call support. "Oh, yeah, we ban for negative balances if your credit card charges back." "Wait, is that in your terms of service?" "Nope, lol!"

To resolve this, I have to go and purchase PlayStation gift cards. Call customer support back. Scratch off the foil, and read the numbers over the phone. They won't take any other form of payment. Until I do that, my system will remain locked.

It just all seems so.... sketchy.

Anyone in a similar situation find a better resolution?

If you only threatened to dispute the charge, I find it hard to believe that you were "banned." If you were "double charged" as you claim (and I have no reason to doubt your story), then I am pretty sure that it could have been worked out. I know people have their own stories that they were screwed by Sony customer service (or MS or Nintendo or Apple or any other company-- even Amazon, which has the best customer service of any company IMO)... But, I have only had good experiences with Sony when I have called. Many times, it is the attitude you take with the phone reps and how you handle it. I am not saying that this is your fault, but you are giving a story in a vacuum with missing facts.

 

[captainraincoat]

Why are people acting like this is unique to Sony?

Steam will ban the fuck out of you for a charge back. As will most major companies.

Because the sony support polices are absolute shit....you try and get your console set back to the primary console after your account has been hacked....have to wait 6 months....even though its not your fault you get punished for some other fucker.

Their refund policies also contadict some countries laws and you pretty much have to file a dispute with your countries consumer protection agencies to deal with it...a pain in the fucking ass.

Online chat support is also a joke and now they have added a geoblock so if your not in the country your account is you have to use a vpn to access the webchat

 

[Goreomedy]

PlayStation plus automatically renews to your CC. They make it pretty obvious. Sucks that you got double billed not knowing that, but it isn't their fault. They really should just deduct the time purchased and refund your money though. The ban is just a nasty play on their part. I'm glad I've never dealt with their CS. It sounds awful.

I had automatic renewal turned off. Entered a new credit card, and it defaulted back to auto renewal without warning. The manual purchase pushed back my plus date to 2017. But auto renewal kicked in 15 min later anyway.

Those accusing me of being impatient with CS, I wasn't really. I'm not Lionel Mandrake, so excuse the brevity of my reenactment.

Just got the necessary ps store cards. I'm now going to place them in the mailbox of a haunted house as instructed. Pray for me.

 

[DooMAGE]

Stop buying digital goods on Sony platforms. They have anti consumer rules, and you should not trust a company with huge security problems, ppl forget about the 77 million accounts that was hacked in 2011. lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outage

 

[Whales]

you were charged twice. Did you not receive 2 years of ps+ in that case?


if not, refusing to reimburse you is blatant theft. How are they even allowed to do that?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Stop buying digital goods on Sony platforms. They have anti consumer rules, and you should not trust a company with huge security problems, ppl forget about the 77 million accounts that was hacked in 2011. lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outage

Don't tell me how to spend my money. And no one has forgotten, especially considering they had another massive information leak recently.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

you were charged twice. Did you not receive 2 years of ps+ in that case?


if not, refusing to reimburse you is blatant theft. How are they even allowed to do that?

Yeah his account would have received 2 extension since they stack. We know Sony don't like refunding even during an accidental purchase though. Generally it's easier to just ride it out if it's something you will actually be able to use like PS Plus since the waiting time on actually getting a refund if you can is rather long, so if it was money you needed you won't get it back in time and it will only be refundable to your PSN wallet anyway.

 

[DooMAGE]

Don't tell me how to spend my money. And no one has forgotten, especially considering they had another massive information leak recently.

Fortunately I was answering the OP.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Stories like these are why I don't let my cc info anywhere near Sony anymore. I make all my digital purchases with credit bought on Amazon, who I actually trust with my cc number. Sony get no trust with their draconian policies.

 

[family_guy]

Remove all payment methods from your Sony account. Buy with PSN cards you can get instantly from Amazon or Ebay. You have a company that's been hacked, a company that can't figure out how to do name changes, and a company that ties their TV service to your IP Address of all things.

 

[Mass Effect]

Stories like these are why I don't let my cc info anywhere near Sony anymore. I make all my digital purchases with credit bought on Amazon, who I actually trust with my cc number. Sony get no trust with their draconian policies.

This is what I do.