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Digital Foundry Videocast #7: Hands-On with Nintendo Switch

X-Factor

Member
Digital Foundry's impressions on the Nintendo Switch: (they played it at the London and German events respectively)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0lyvgeJJw0

A very good video by them, probably the best impressions I have seen or read so far.

Partial summary: (for those that cannot watch the video right away)

- impressed with its industrial design and it is a step up over past Nintendo consoles
- However, they feel it is like the Wii U 2.0. The visuals of most of the games they played at the event resemble "those of the Wii U generation".
- if the Switch was not a "tremendous portable" they think it would be a disaster to release it. (they claim a lot of the games they played are lower than 1080p)
- their opinion, very little evolution in what the games are offering.
- Docked view performance is less impressive than they thought it would be:
Claim ports of games with simplistic graphics like Bomberman and Disgaea 5 looked awful at the event because they are less than 1080p and
Bomberman was also 30 FPS.

Other games:

- they also blasted 1-2 Switch. It can be played without a screen or monitor. They dubbed it "disposable entertainment" and inferior to
other minigame compilations. They liked Nintendo Land on the Wii U, but disliked 1-2 Switch and feel it should be bundled with the system instead of a separate $40.
They feel 1-2 Switch is a collection of very basic games that one would download for free from an app store.

- Zelda, Bomberman, and Skylanders are all 30 frames per second. The rest of the games at the event were 60 frames per second docked or undocked (albeit they
admit the other games are not so impressive visually).

Positives:

- must perceive it from a handheld perspective. Ultimately, the Switch is stunning as a handheld, but underwhelming if you only look at it as being a home console.
- Zelda BotW runs at mostly a locked 30 FPS when undocked, unlike what they played at E3 2016 on the Wii U.
Runs at 900p on the Switch (docked), 720p (undocked), 720p on Wii U.
- screen on the device a 720p IPS which is a big upgrade over the 3DS resolution (400 x 240 screen) or the Wii U's gamepad screen (800 x 540)
- they enjoyed Arms and really like the art direction, and controls
- Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Zelda BotW were very impressive undocked experiences for them

Concerns:

- Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey are 720p native resolution and 60 FPS when docked. They are concerned about how the undocked resolution would be like.
(undocked system runs at 40% of the GPU clocks according to them)
- the port of Skylanders is very blurry looking on the Switch. (IMO): It may be a sign of the system's limitations or due to early or sloppy development .
- no anti-aliasing on Splatoon 2 or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (the Wii U versions of MK8 and the first Splatoon did not have anti-aliasing either)


.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jesus Christ, John looks so fucking mlady in that get up.

In a good way, i like the style
 

Jezbollah

Member
I have to say I'm getting a little concerned by the impressions of the docked performance so far. If I was to buy a Switch I would have no intent to use it's portability - it would be for conventional TV gaming - the initial feedback doesn't fill me with confidence.
 

S1kkZ

Member
I have to say I'm getting a little concerned by the impressions of the docked performance so far. If I was to buy a Switch I would have no intent to use it's portability - it would be for conventional TV gaming - the initial feedback doesn't fill me with confidence.
same. usage would be 80% docked and 20% mobile (in bed). a home console with wiiu level visuals in 2017 for 330€? thats just not for me.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Seems like the bandwidth is hitting the console harder than we thought??

720p even in docked mode is something i didn't expect we'd be seeing much of...and considering the undocked performance...i'm guessing a lot of those games are actually sub HD undocked.
 

Volotaire

Member
It was interesting to hear the point John made about the switching aspect of the system. He hypothesises that when the system is undocked, it is searching for controllers. Form his expereince, whichever controller is clicked first, it will recognise that controller as the primary input method. He accidently hit the L and R buttons on the pro controller whilst the Switch was switching.
 
Seems like the bandwidth is hitting the console harder than we thought??

720p even in docked mode is something i didn't expect we'd be seeing much of...and considering the undocked performance...i'm guessing a lot of those games are actually sub HD undocked.

25 gb/s total must be shared between cpu and gpu. no eram to lighten the burden either. its going to struggle
 
While I appreciate the impressions, the apparent necessity of showing the commentators on screen and the awkward angle/positioning (especially of the American guy) was kinda hilarious to me (yes I am drunk atm). Thats my two cents.
 

Scrawnton

Member
So a very impressive handheld but underwhelming console compared to PS4/Xbox/PC. Pretty much what 90% of us knew going in.

Perfectly fine with me.
 
Wow still watching this but they're slamming it really hard so far... damn son. Savage.

Edit: ok the tone switched to a lot more positive after that, phew.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
25 gb/s total must be shared between cpu and gpu. no eram to lighten the burden either. its going to struggle

If the bandwidth is the same for base X1 is true, i guess...

I thought they would do ED or ESRAM cause Nintendo always puts embedded ram in their consoles, but i guess they could not do it this time cause of the handheld configuration..
 

Scrawnton

Member
Wow still watching this but they're slamming it really hard so far... damn son. Savage.
Its 100% expected. This is a group they made their name on analyzing technical prowess for people that obsess over tech in gaming. If there was a device never meant for them or their fans it is this. Much like Wii and Wii U, you have to go into this system not caring about having games comparable graphically to the competitors.
 
If the bandwidth is the same for base X1 is true, i guess...

I thought they would do ED or ESRAM cause Nintendo always puts embedded ram in their consoles, but i guess they could not do it this time cause of the handheld configuration..

just going by the leaked specs
 
Yeah I'm going to use this as a handheld for sure, with my PS4, Xbox one s and pc being my main gaming outlets hooked up to television. In all honesty as a handheld it looks good, as a home console it's very poor. So yeah I'm quite happy at the thought of Zelda while I cosy up in bed at night.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Thanks for the Summary X-Factor.

I dont know if early titles - most of them being ported or based on WiiU titles are enough to come to the conclusion that the system is struggling with these games. There is no question that a Bomberman could run in a higher frame rate or look better. ARMs or Mario Odyssey look already quite good months before they are about to launch.

Would be more interesting to see how UE4 titles like the new SMT or the DQ11 version perform on the system - or in general games that are build with Switch in mind from the start. Or see how Skyrim Enhanced looks compared to the other version - guess we have to wait for e3 for those impressions.

I only saw this IGN Disgaea 5 video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TjxuHlwrfs

What makes it look more awful then the PS4 version ?
 

Cartho

Member
Perfectly fine by me in their summary: stunning as a handheld but underwhelming as a home console in terms of graphics.

I own a PS4 pro sonny graphics fix will come from that, I'll be using this as a handheld for when I go away and for Nintendo's 1st class 1st party stuff. Fine for me. Disappointing probably for those who wanted PS4 level power driving Nintendo 1st part stuff I suppose.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
So a very impressive handheld but underwhelming console compared to PS4/Xbox/PC. Pretty much what 90% of us knew going in.

Perfectly fine with me.

I don't think anyone expected this thing to struggle so hard when docked though. People expecting a massive upgrade over the Wii-U should adjust their expectations accordingly.
 
- Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey are 720p native resolution and 60 FPS when docked. They are concerned about how the undocked resolution would be like.
(undocked system runs at 40% of the GPU clocks according to them).

Yikes. Splatoon 2 especially doesn't look that much better than Splatoon 1. I know this is the first year of the system, but this should put hopes and dreams of ports of the more graphically intensive 3rd party games to bed. No amount of downporting is going to get stuff like FFXV or The Witcher 3 to run on this hardware in a reasonable state.

So a very impressive handheld but underwhelming console compared to PS4/Xbox/PC. Pretty much what 90% of us knew going in.

Perfectly fine with me.

Nah. When Emily (?) mentioned that the system would be easy to port to and when it was revealed that UE4 was compatible with Switch, you had people speculating all sorts. Barely anyone predicted the system would be running games that showed such a little jump in performance and visual fidelity to Wii U. Not that it bothers me in the slightest, but I feel there were more people expecting something closer to XB1/PS4 than you give credit.
 

Scrawnton

Member
Yeah I'm going to use this as a handheld for sure, with my PS4, Xbox one s and pc being my main gaming outlets hooked up to television. In all honesty as a handheld it looks good, as a home console it's very poor. So yeah I'm quite happy at the though of Zelda while I cosy up in bed at night.
I believe that as Nintendo gets the price down and big releases out of the way they will start making the play for this being more of a handheld than a console. It has everything it needs to be a successful handheld gaming device without ever once connecting it to the TV. I know they want to hold on to 3DS and all the money it brings in but they really need to hammer home this portability and handheld nature of this device. It's a mistake not to.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I only saw this IGN Disgaea 5 video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TjxuHlwrfs

What makes it look more awful then the PS4 version ?

If you can tell when something is not FHD, it will probably really stick out compared to something that is.

I personally never realized the difference between 720p or 1080p until i played a lot of time with my PS4, and then i went back to 360 and PS3 and realized how jaggy and less clear everything was.
 

Lux R7

Member
- Splatoon 2 and Mario Odyssey are 720p native resolution and 60 FPS when docked. They are concerned about how the undocked resolution would be like.
(undocked system runs at 40% of the GPU clocks according to them).

holy hell
 

Scrawnton

Member
I don't think anyone expected this thing to struggle so hard when docked though. People expecting a massive upgrade over the Wii-U should adjust their expectations accordingly.
On their Zelda analysis video they said it's obvious devs are optimizing the games for the handheld first and then their choice is to call it a day and ship it or spend the remaining time before launch polishing the docked mode. I predict a lot of devs just call it quits after optimizing for undocked and ship a game that is identical on the tv.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
I sincerely doubt Nintendo would let Splatoon and Mario run at sub 720 in portable mode. How'd they find out Odyssey's resolution anyway? It wasn't demoed on the floor was it? And Splatoon could just be a straight port of the Wii U game with some additions at this point in development? I dunno. What we know spec-wise it makes no sense that the Switch could handle 900p Zelda but has to run Mario and Splatoon at 720p in docked
 

Lom1lo

Member
Maybe splatoon 2 and mario ran at portable mode while docked ?
We dont know if they already implemented a profile for docked mode.
 
I believe that as Nintendo gets the price down and big releases out of the way they will start making the play for this being more of a handheld than a console. It has everything it needs to be a successful handheld gaming device without ever once connecting it to the TV. I know they want to hold on to 3DS and all the money it brings in but they really need to hammer home this portability and handheld nature of this device. It's a mistake not to.


Yeah agreed, if they get price down and put all focus on games such as Pokemon and other handheld games I think they could make this work, focusing on the home console aspect would just be foolish alongside much more powerful machines with huge libraries of blockbuster third party games, that will likely be cheaper leading up to holiday 2017.
 

sits

Member
I'm curious as to whether some of these initial Switch titles started development as Wii U titles and then got moved over.
 

Izcarielo

Banned
Its 100% expected. This is a group they made their name on analyzing technical prowess for people that obsess over tech in gaming. If there was a device never meant for them or their fans it is this. Much like Wii and Wii U, you have to go into this system not caring about having games comparable graphically to the competitors.

Except from some people, i dont think anyone is demanding ps4/xb1 graphics on the Switch.
One thing is not caring; the other thing is not having even the bare minimum that one would expect in this day & age ie: texture filtering, AA, 30fps (unbelievable that Zelda has framedrops considering how Nintendo used to care abot that)...
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
All these in-development games which have to run at a stable framerate undocked before they start tuning docked mode.

Games like disgaea and such are supposedly sub FHD and they come out in march. Its hard to see that they are so early that they would not have the resolution pinned down.

The GPU of the switch is DEFINITELY not the reason why Disgaea of all things is sub FHD, that GPU should be able to render 1080p at the Wii U's level of fidelity reasonably well in docked mode, let alone pixel art and lower level 3D games.

I'm more convinced now more than ever that the bandwidth is the issue this system is having. Sharing the small amount between GPU and CPU is probably extremely tough.
 

bigjig

Member
I feel like you get the worst of both worlds with the Switch. As a console it is severely underpowered, as a handheld it is ridiculously overpriced.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I believe that as Nintendo gets the price down and big releases out of the way they will start making the play for this being more of a handheld than a console. It has everything it needs to be a successful handheld gaming device without ever once connecting it to the TV. I know they want to hold on to 3DS and all the money it brings in but they really need to hammer home this portability and handheld nature of this device. It's a mistake not to.

Problem is, their price doesn't really match that idea, especially with all the extra shit you need to buy, price f games, etc etc.
Plus it's not really all that portable.
--
Also, lol at asking 40$ for that Street Fighter 2 HD thing, out of their minds.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
If you can tell when something is not FHD, it will probably really stick out compared to something that is.

I personally never realized the difference between 720p or 1080p until i played a lot of time with my PS4, and then i went back to 360 and PS3 and realized how jaggy and less clear everything was.

Yeah, but i have hard time believing that the system cant run Disgaea 5 in FHD or Bomberman at a higher framerate those are obvious development related optimization issues of early software releases.

I sincerely doubt Nintendo would let Splatoon and Mario run at sub 720 in portable mode

Very unlikely - the games are also 6-12 months out so they have alot of optimization ahead of them. The DF impressions are a Snapshot of the current situation - but i wouldnt read too much into it.
I'm more convinced now more than ever that the bandwidth is the issue this system is having. Sharing the small amount between GPU and CPU is probably extremely tough.

It has enough bandwith to run MK8 in 1080p/60fps but not enough for Disgaea 5 ? That isnt likely at all.
Sounds like NIS just wanted to have the game running and ported on Switch asap so it can be showcased during this event - they still have time to optimize the code until launch.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Games like disgaea and such are supposedly sub FHD and they come out in march. Its hard to see that they are so early.

The GPU of the switch is DEFINITELY not the reason why Disgaea of all things is sub FHD, that GPU should be able to render 1080p at the Wii U's level of fidelity reasonably well, let alone pixel art and lower level 3D games.

I'm more convinced now more than ever that the bandwidth is the issue this system is having. Sharing the small amount between GPU and CPU is probably extremely tough.

Isn't Disgaea a PS2 game at heart as well? It and Bomberman being 720p and not 60 FPS is 100% down to development lol.
 
They touch upon the exact same thing I've been saying since October. Nintendo have been constantly positioning this as a new home console, not a handheld, which is why there is disappointment in the performance and specs. Regardless of whether you think this is a 3DS successor, that's not the way Nintendo sees it and they're setting themselves up for a fall by claiming this is their new home console. Not to mention, it's not really that portable in the first place.

I feel like you get the worst of both worlds with the Switch. As a console it is severely underpowered, as a handheld it is ridiculously overpriced.

Exactly.
 
Ok so basically portable Wii U 2.0 ....

Wii U specs were disappointing 4 years ago, it's crazy that little changed 4 years later...

If you want to market this thing well, just kill the 3DS that now is just retro-gaming....
 
They touch upon the exact same thing I've been saying since October. Nintendo have been constantly positioning this as a new home console, not a handheld, which is why there is disappointment in the performance and specs. Regardless of whether you think this is a 3DS successor, that's not the way Nintendo sees it and they're setting themselves up for a fall by claiming this is their new home console. Not to mention, it's not really that portable in the first place.

Pretty much.
 

dolabla

Member
I'm fine with it just being a powerful handheld that happens to be able to be connected up to the TV.

However, there should be no excuse for Nintendo not to be able to release many good games on it since their focus is on 1 system and 1 system only now. There shouldn't be any reason it should be like the Wii U.
 

trixx

Member
Great video. As a console its good as a handheld its great. Just a bit more powerful than wii u. Then consider price and accessories. The thing is I don't care too much about handhelds so idk about this.

Yeah marketing has been quite bad to be honest. Sell it as handheld rather than a console tbh
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Fundamentally the issue to me is summarised well by DF

- it's an impressive portable
- being pitched by Nintendo do as a home console

And the two clearly clash. As a home console it seems barely better than wiiU (maybe early software and things will improve over time)

Nintendo need to get the stick out of their ass being so protective of 3DS. This thing lives or dies on being both home *and* portable and they need to be open and honest about that, including talk of more handheld franchises.

It's not even like they're competing. Price point alone prevents that. Maybe there is a small risk that some people might not buy a 3DS or some 3DS games if they think they'll come out on switch later, but they just have to suck that up
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
On their Zelda analysis video they said it's obvious devs are optimizing the games for the handheld first and then their choice is to call it a day and ship it or spend the remaining time before launch polishing the docked mode. I predict a lot of devs just call it quits after optimizing for undocked and ship a game that is identical on the tv.

There's a huge part of the Switch audience that's just looking for a home console experience. The fact that it's a good handheld doesn't lessen the sting of it being a pretty bad home console.

This hybrid approach was a mistake.
 
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