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Obsidian on why their Microsoft published XB1 RPG Stormlands got cancelled
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
Champion also translates to "someone with sufficient leadership/influence at the publisher side who are willing to put their neck on the line to carry a mismanaged/over-budget project they believe in to the finish line."
LordBaztion
Member
the same as Phantom Dust
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I hate when companies act like a business
ALLseeingEYE
Member
I believe it,
the quality of a game is usually in disarray until quite late in a project, and even potentially until the final months as polish is added.
Like, Obsidian has a history of great RPGs, they know what they are doing. If the story and concept work looked excellent, then I could certainly see it being worth it for Microsoft to have stuck with Obsidian until the end, perhaps even giving them extra budget to ensure that final layer of polish. It could have filled a nice void in the 1st party lineup where Bioware used to sit.
the quality of a game is usually in disarray until quite late in a project, and even potentially until the final months as polish is added.
Like, Obsidian has a history of great RPGs, they know what they are doing. If the story and concept work looked excellent, then I could certainly see it being worth it for Microsoft to have stuck with Obsidian until the end, perhaps even giving them extra budget to ensure that final layer of polish. It could have filled a nice void in the 1st party lineup where Bioware used to sit.
Revolutionary
Member
It's almost as if they're running a business or something.
#sorrynotsorry
Member
Same with every other publisher?? In fact this is probably less true of MS.
MS cancels games they think are bad. Better than releasing a mediocre game.
blame space
Banned
i stay up at night worrying about crackdown.
Comandr
Member
While unfortunate that promising looking games get canceled, Microsoft IS a business, and the only reason they are doing this gaming thing is to make money. Furthermore, since they aren't exactly dominating the market, they have to be even more cautious on what will end up losing them money.
Yep. I get what he's saying, and he's entirely right, but it's also excusing mismanagement and failure on your own part. If your product can only come to market with basically some guy willing to subsidize your screwups, can't say I blame the publishers for cutting.
It's an issue of missing the forest for the trees. He obviously wishes he had a guy who was willing to go to bat for him, but scale it out to all the various projects that get canned and you'd see it'd be unsustainable if everyone got that chance. Sony could deal with one The Last Guardian, they couldn't make money if their stable is full of companies making games that way.
Beyond this issue the Unfiltered interview is really interesting, although people who played the games referenced will probably enjoy it more.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This isn't unique to the game industry. Litterally any project at any company at all has a champion. They're just talking about general project management.
Herp Derpington
Member
Yep MS doesn't support something they don't feel will be a money maker. How dare them.
Looking at their currently announced lineup, how do you come to that conclusion?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Can't really feel sorry for Obsidian. Make a better game on time and on budget. This isn't a charity.
Nightengale
Member
Speaking from consumer goods corporate experience (non-gaming), this is very true and the power of an advocate/project champion is far more than you would think.
Every company will generally invest some amount of money into projects or activities that they think will differentiate them/or set a new tone compared to the stable, rational investments. Trying out new stuff in marketing or projects is very common.
However, those things are also the first to get cut when the squeeze gets tight because they are not core to the company's key deliverables. In many cases, it takes a strong project champion to defend the need to continue these projects, because they are the ones who'll convince the boss to reduce investment in the sure-fire projects for the sake of the pet project.
Every company will generally invest some amount of money into projects or activities that they think will differentiate them/or set a new tone compared to the stable, rational investments. Trying out new stuff in marketing or projects is very common.
However, those things are also the first to get cut when the squeeze gets tight because they are not core to the company's key deliverables. In many cases, it takes a strong project champion to defend the need to continue these projects, because they are the ones who'll convince the boss to reduce investment in the sure-fire projects for the sake of the pet project.
Cancellations and what not are realities of development. The only issue I have with MS is hyping up games and then cancelling them. If you're showing a game as a key part of your upcoming lineup, then deliver on it. Otherwise, if you're unsure of how it's turning out or are not fully committed to doing everything possible to get it released in some form, then don't show it at all.
this game's cancellation = meh, it happens.
scalebound, fable legends, phantom dust = bad.
this game's cancellation = meh, it happens.
scalebound, fable legends, phantom dust = bad.
They hadn't announced that game, though...
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
Yea you tell em guys!!
Everyone knows the BEST games are ALWAYS guaranteed money makers from inception until release!!
Got no time for new things or risk. Gimme those sweet sweet guarantees.
Everyone knows the BEST games are ALWAYS guaranteed money makers from inception until release!!
Got no time for new things or risk. Gimme those sweet sweet guarantees.
pretty done
Member
Crackdown 4 and Sea of Thieves to be cancelled? I can't see how those are going to be money making games.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Hey they still dropped tens of millions so obviously they went into it believing in it. Why wouldn't they hype it?
Nightengale
Member
I know. I'm just expanding that the reason why some won't step up to the champion's plate because generally, when we're talking millions of dollars, it's a matter of a senior executive putting their job on the line or effectively risking any chance of future promotion if it fails.
I honestly wonder how they're managing to justify Crackdown 3 development when we haven't seen anything and it's been 3 years.
check the edit. I don't care about this game's cancellation.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
A complete repulsion to risk has done so well for the xbox one
Correct.
I hear what you're saying but this isn't just that. Companies have to be able to gamble a little.
Look at movie studios, they throw a bunch of shit at the wall and count on their big tentpoles to make up for any bombs. They take risks because that's how you build your brand and how you take advantage of the occasional surprise hit.
Right. We know this game was canned early in development, I'm not sure why we have people in here immediately claiming it was mismanaged. Everything we've heard makes it pretty clear that winds blew in a different direction, and MS realized they did not actually want to fund a AAA RPG. Unfortunately they pulled the rug out from Obsidian in the process.
I will tell you 1 example of why your post is really stupid: Square didn't think bravely default would be a success because it was a Old School RPG and they thought it would bomb in the West, they gave it a chance and boom, we have a nice new IP with sequels to come.
They should pick better, more suitable projects then. It wouldn't hurt them to risk a few with low projections either, if it can help their brand perception.
It wasn't canned so early if I recall correctly.
While this is true it's not entirely accurate. Microsoft's goal is to get a foothold in the living room. This was their goal with the original Xbox and remains today. This is why they pushed TV so hard at the beginning of this gen. Money is the ultimate goal, but being in the living room for MS is just as if not more important as it allows them inroads to other markets.
If Stormlands sold someone an Xbox there are plenty of revenue streams Microsoft could capitalize on, from $60 controllers to monthly online access fees to royalties for every additional game sold over the life of the platform. Their exclusive lineup is a problem because they have cancelled too many games. It's hard to argue that isn't hurting their business.
LordRaptor
Member
That's not at all what he's saying.
He's saying if someone at MS believes in it and fights their corner, it gets funded.
That is very different.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
I laughed hard lolol
It's not just about making money, it's about guaranteeing a lot of money, which is why most large publishers continue to make generic low-risk games.
The only good to come out of this is it forced Obsidian's hand into crowd-funding, and now they can make great games that no publisher would have ever approved, because CRPGs apparently aren't successful enough to invest in.
The only good to come out of this is it forced Obsidian's hand into crowd-funding, and now they can make great games that no publisher would have ever approved, because CRPGs apparently aren't successful enough to invest in.
If I recall the stories about it, it was cancelled during early meetings to green light the project, although I'm sure Obsidian had already done some pre-production beforehand. MS was also insisting on Kinect features at the time.
Yes. That and more is discussed in the original interview, which we already had a thread about.
The interview is great, I encourage everyone with even a slight bit of interest in the topics at hand to watch it.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Maybe we should just trust MS to know better on this one? Seeing as how none of us have even seen this game? I mean even with Scalebound when all of us saw how crap the reveals were and MS's decision was still questioned, I guess I shouldn't expect that from people.