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Persona 4 Golden, some of this shit is really gross (extensive P5 discussion)

B

bananafactory

Banned
So I've played this game on and off over the years and finally finished it on the weekend. It's actually a fantastic game that I loved, but it kept taking me out of it with really weird and creepy stuff.

First off there's a lot of perversion/harassment in many situations especially regarding male advances on the female characters that is just outright creepy. Sneaking into their rooms at night? Trying to grope them at every opportunity? The fuck. There's no consequences and it's always just laughed off. Add in the fact they're all high schoolers and the way the game sexualizes a lot of them is just really awkward.

To be clear I'm not overly sensitive or in any way against exploring sexual content or themes in games...I understand it's a big part of adolescent life too. It's the way it's handled here that just kinda made me feel uneasy in parts.

Was this ever a controversy? Or am I just totally out to lunch here?
 
P

PurpleMoustache

Member
bananafactory said:
So I've played this game on and off over the years and finally finished it on the weekend. It's actually a fantastic game that I loved, but it kept taking me out of it with really weird and creepy stuff.

First off there's a lot of perversion/harassment in many situations especially regarding male advances on the female characters that is just outright creepy. Sneaking into their rooms at night? Trying to grope them at every opportunity? The fuck. There's no consequences and it's always just laughed off. Add in the fact they're all high schoolers and the way the game sexualizes a lot of them is just really awkward.

To be clear I'm not overly sensitive or in any way against exploring sexual content or themes in games...I understand it's a big part of adolescent life too. It's the way it's handled here that just kinda made me feel uneasy in parts.

Was this ever a controversy? Or am I just totally out to lunch here?
Click to expand...

Yep... that's a Persona game for you. Sexual themes are at the forte of each entry.
 
D

dan2026

Member
The games are very otaku focused.
As good as they are stuff like this shouldn't be a surprise.

What's worse is the LGBT representation.
What's there isn't good. In P4 and P5.
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
There's a lof that stuff, yeah, but I think a lot of it gets ignored because it's pretty much par for the course with anime.

The grosser stuff is really the cheap jokes that get made about Kanji and Naoto. Like
are we gonna be safe in this tent with you Kanji?
 
J

joe2187

Banned
Persona 4 Golden unfortunately fell HEAVILY into the anime trope trap using high school sexual harassment as comedy.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
I'm more surprised Persona 5 took it up a level from what i've played so far. I definitely wouldn't mind less of this in future installments.
 
P

plutoknight

Member
I actually thought Persona handled the sexual themes much better than most other media out there and is actually (scarily) more true-to-life than we may like to admit.

I don't remember any weird groping or sneaking into other characters room for a sexual encounter in any capacity though, and I put ~100 hours into P4G.

(Oh, I guess I forgota bout that bath scene. Yeah that crap stinks. I was thinking more how the game tackles sexuality and identity in teens on the whole)
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
bytesized said:
Never played a persona game but it does sound gross. Thread could use some videos to illustrate the issues though.
Click to expand...

Basically everything in this section

https://youtu.be/7R01Orqf054

plutoknight said:
I actually thought Persona handled the sexual themes much better than most other media out there and is actually (scarily) more true-to-life than we may like to admit.

I don't remember any weird groping or sneaking into other characters room for a sexual encounter in any capacity though, and I put ~100 hours into P4G.
Click to expand...

Most of it is Teddy focused. But there's a weird scene at the hot springs too involving Naoto
 
M

Modest Mauser

Member
I don't disagree, and some of these scenes do sort of undermine the game's own themes, but these moments feel like pretty small blips to me in a >75 hour storyline.
 
S

sasliquid

Member
I can understand those concerns

I would point out some of the kinda awkward stuff was exclusive to the Golden which I assume was a different writer but some of it is in the base game (and I haven't replayed it since I became woke)
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
Modest Mauser said:
I don't disagree, and some of these scenes do sort of undermine the game's own themes, but these moments feel like pretty small blips to me in a >75 hour storyline.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's more troubling because most of the individual character issues and themes are handled very well. I think that's why these smaller parts stick out more
 
S

Supermanisdead

Member
Yeah, persona 4 was just really fucking lame with a lot of those scenes. 3 and 5 have it too, but it felt egregious in 4.

Yosukes constant homophobia and Teddie being a sex pest were really frustrating. Especially as you could never call them out on it.
 
D

dan2026

Member
Persona 5 does feel a lot better in regards to a lot of this.

Granted they didn't try and tackle any sort of gay issues this time, thank god.
 
J

joe2187

Banned
Aeana said:
The Naoto scene they added to P4G is especially gross.
Click to expand...

Obligatory Anime Hot Springs chapter/episode

Chaos17 said:
I don't remember that, can someone explain to me in spoiler what's this really about ?
Click to expand...

Golden added in TONS of fanservice shit, not to mention the "Risque" costumes which while superficial is still jarring since it's adding sexually themed costumes to young high schoolers.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
Persona gets cut a lot of slack from a lot of people because it's pretty progressive from the background of Japanese sexual norms that it's coming from. The boys' pretty clear sexual harassment of the girls, and Yosuke's rampant homophobia are pretty tame by anime standards, and as a whole the game takes a fairly progressive stand against Japanese strict gender roles. There are definitely some gross scenes played for laughs though, no denying it.
 
P

playXray

Member
I don't remember any groping and most of the sexual stuff didn't bother me, but I did find the LGBT stuff a bit odd - I can see how some people found it offensive. Still, I can overlook it in the context of such a great game.
 
S

Silvard

Member
plutoknight said:
I actually thought Persona handled the sexual themes much better than most other media out there and is actually (scarily) more true-to-life than we may like to admit.

I don't remember any weird groping or sneaking into other characters room for a sexual encounter in any capacity though, and I put ~100 hours into P4G.

(Oh, I guess I forgota bout that bath scene. Yeah that crap stinks. I was thinking more how the game tackles sexuality and identity in teens on the whole)
Click to expand...

Persona is a fun series but this is as far from the truth as possible. Anything involving homosexuality is a joke, literally and figuratively.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
I'm guessing you're referring to the hot springs scenes. Yeah, those scenes aren't really looked well upon by most fans (at least here in the west). They suck, but they're such a minor part of the game, people tend to just overlook them.

The stupid "eww gay people" jokes in P3-P5 also suck, which is odd since there was a gay dating option in P2 and that came out 13+ years ago.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
PurpleMoustache said:
Yep... that's a Persona game for you. Sexual themes are at the forte of each entry.
Click to expand...

MGR Desperado said:
So basically Persona
Click to expand...

Uzukii said:
Wait until you see Persona 5. It's dicks everywhere.
Click to expand...

_h8bit said:
One of the handful things that bugs me just as much in Persona 5 as it did in Persona 4.
Click to expand...

DrFunk said:
Persona 5 doubles down on all of that brehs
Click to expand...

Damn that's disappointing. I have P5 and am going to start it soon. It seems like something they'd have approached better since there's been so much time between entries. Is it a regional thing where Japan still struggles to deal with this stuff appropriately?
 
I

Iva Demilcol

Member
bananafactory said:
So I've played this game on and off over the years and finally finished it on the weekend. It's actually a fantastic game that I loved, but it kept taking me out of it with really weird and creepy stuff.

First off there's a lot of perversion/harassment in many situations especially regarding male advances on the female characters that is just outright creepy. Sneaking into their rooms at night? Trying to grope them at every opportunity? The fuck. There's no consequences and it's always just laughed off. Add in the fact they're all high schoolers and the way the game sexualizes a lot of them is just really awkward.

To be clear I'm not overly sensitive or in any way against exploring sexual content or themes in games...I understand it's a big part of adolescent life too. It's the way it's handled here that just kinda made me feel uneasy in parts.

Was this ever a controversy? Or am I just totally out to lunch here?
Click to expand...

As someone who did and said stupid things all the time during those years of my life, I think that those P4's scenes aren't a problem.

I'm aware that when you see them as part of the lack of female representation or over-sexualization problem of the whole industry, they do look bad though.
 
S

Stanng243

Member
That sounds like a completely different game then I played. Granted, I gave up after 20 hours because it just wasn't fun.
 
T

theJwac

Member
I've only recently played P4 Golden and was kind of surprised by this as well, but I think it's more a sign of what a society has been taught to be sensitive to.

For instance, I loved the movie Revenge of the Nerds back in the 80s. I thought it was harmless, hilarious fun. Upon watching it a few years ago, I couldn't help but notice the horrible implications of the house raid the nerds do against the Pi Delta Pis and the fact they left behind secret cameras to spy on them. Not to mention that the main character uses a costume to fool the girl he likes into getting together with him. These guys are supposed to be the heroes of the film but by today's standards, they would be put on predator registries and thrown in prison.

It's easy to look back and say "what were they thinking!?", but in my opinion, social norms and taboos can change quickly and our awareness changes along with this. I'm not overly familiar with otaku or Japanese social culture so I don't know how out there Persona 4 was by 2008 Japanese standards. From what fans of the series tell me, it's par for the course. Aside from this, I enjoyed the game. I found the scenes with Teddy hoping for midnight sneak missions amusing in that he was always thwarted.
 
S

stupei

Member
LiK said:
You'll be disappointed by how tame it actually is and most of it is done for comedy.
Click to expand...

Creepy but for comedy is still creepy.

We don't have to excuse this crap just because a game is great, especially when it actively tries to engage with larger themes. The story takes itself too seriously thematically to use the "for laughs" defense when it goes off the rails.
 
B

BiggNife

Member
Sayad said:
Does it?! I'm near the end and nothing like that comes to mind!
Click to expand...
I mean there's all the stuff that happens with Ann and Yusuke

Namely the fact that Ann is clearly horrified by the idea of posing nude and the response from Joker and Ryuji is "sorry but you gotta do it for the team" which is a really shitty way to respond to someone who is upset that she is being forced to pose naked

And the writers clearly think this is hysterical because they spend So. Much. Time. on it.

I love P5 but the writing has a lot of the same problems P4 did. I was hoping they would be a little more tasteful this time.
 
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