Its so jarring playing through this bit last night.
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Persona 4 Golden, some of this shit is really gross (extensive P5 discussion)
- Thread starter bananafactory
- Start date
Its so jarring playing through this bit last night.
It definitely garnered controversy OP, which changed over the years. Back in the day, pretty much anyone gave you shit for criticizing the game, but that's clearly changed over the years.
It's pretty juvenile, and the 2nd hotspring scenes is pretty much the worst thing ever. I don't remember there being an instance where the boys tried to grope anyone though...?
It's pretty juvenile, and the 2nd hotspring scenes is pretty much the worst thing ever. I don't remember there being an instance where the boys tried to grope anyone though...?
What do you expect Ryuji's response to be he's like 16.
Though the thing about him is that he doesn't get all horned up thinking about it, he just takes it in stride plus there wasn't much option for the team, not like she gets close to getting nude though.
This is nonsense
Just because Japanese culture is more okay with sexist jokes does not mean it is suddenly okay for a Japanese game to make them
It's the same kind of bullshit when people say it's okay that Witcher 3 didn't have a lot of people of color because Eastern Europe is mostly homogeneous
Persona 5 dungeon 2 spoilers
It seemed to me that it was heavily implied (outside a few dialogue choices that I took as jokes) that she was never actually going to be nude because she was supposed to pull out to the metaverse way before that. And on top of that Yusuke's intentions were never sexual in regards to asking her to model for him
On top of that she's never actually nude or even nearly at any point in that ark
It's a bit xenophobic to imply that something in a foreign culture is inappropriate or should be called out because of how you compare it to your standards in the west. Western standards are not the epitome of perfection that every other country should adhere to. Things that are okay in their society are not inherently wrong because they don't line up with western ideals.
It is especially weird with Ann that she is the only ones who gets the fanservicy scenes.
Far as I can see non of the others do. Even Ann's thief costume is shall we say 'different' from the other girls.
I'm sorry but no I can't accept that.
Homophobia is never acceptable anywhere.
Far as I can see non of the others do. Even Ann's thief costume is shall we say 'different' from the other girls.
I'm sorry but no I can't accept that.
Homophobia is never acceptable anywhere.
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Westerners react to anime.
If it offends you it's not for you, move on.
If it offends you it's not for you, move on.
bananafactory
Banned
Why can't I criticize entertainment that is distributed and sold in my country? It's even localized to boot. How can it not be made for me?
Members react to a thread discussion.
If it make you salty, it's not for you. Move on.
If were talking about their thief costumes I think all of the female ones could be considered fetishistic in some way or another.
I'd expect a character who should be uncomfortable and vulnerable to that kind of stuff from her friends to be affected by it and call them out on it. Sounds like that doesn't happen.
Yes, you can be an insensitive and brash 16 year old kid, but actions can and should affect the other character.
It doesn't need to happen every time, but clearly people have been giving a lot of examples of similar stuff happening and it doesn't seem to get called out once in the game.
Anime is a medium. It does not inherently carry with it any sort of attitude or portrayal of characters or themes. It's also not immune to criticism.
The Salt Life
Banned
Would you rather them just not port over the game at all?
Guessing it's the scene where Teddie hugs Rise and she slaps him while saying "where do you think you're touching".
hemo memo
Gold Member
You should percive anime and japan in general differently. Listening to the last 8-4P episode and they talk about that game in the latest (japan)nintendo direct and how offensive that was. Mark said it's different in japan and people attitude towards body parts in his words.
That being said, I played P4G to completion and that scene I was like "yeah fan service" and just moved on.
That being said, I played P4G to completion and that scene I was like "yeah fan service" and just moved on.
That is a fair point. I think controversy makes things more interesting, however. I'd rather consume entertainment that challenged my own world view than simply agreed with it. Would you prefer that if these types of scenes were depicted, there would be some type of negative consequence for the character? What about a game like Dead By Daylight? A person chooses to play a blood thirsty killer who is solely trying to please some kind of mythical entity... Is it wrong to like that game given that there is not a moral compass for the killer to follow?
Yeah. I'm playing the game and my fiancé is watching most of my playthrough. When I got there we were both just like...why?
However I dislike the
upskirt peek
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
You do know that tons of anime related content is viewed negatively there as well right? Do you just assume that because Japan produces anime that it's automatically a-ok there?
That's incredibly reductive.
I enjoy a lot of anime, but I will criticize shit like this all day.
Persona 5 Ann thing spoilers
I got the impression that the nude model thing was just the excuse they wanted her to use to get inside. There was never actually any plan for her to get naked. Just get inside and get the door open. The obvious way to get her inside was to say she wanted to model nude for Yusuke since he already asked her to. It's not as if they were stripping her clothes off and tossing her in the house.
Anime isn't immune to criticize from other cultures.
Especially when those criticize are valid/stupid.
The problem is will the Japanese creators actually respond to criticism constructively, or simply brush it off as "foreigner criticism"?
Holy cow I'm not arguing that everything in western culture is sacred, where did you get that idea from
I think there's plenty wrong in western culture, particularly how gore is more acceptable than nudity
But regardless, I'm just saying that if something is sexist, it should be called out as sexist. Just because something is normalized does not mean it is okay.
Green Mamba
Member
The two animated hot springs scenes they added in Golden were really horrid. The second one was especially egregious--there's not even any prior set up, it just randomly jumps from "hey let's have a snowball fight" to "now everyone's naked?" and there's no mention of it afterwards either. It's like they animated a second hot springs scene (for some reason) and didn't know where to put it.
Also it features Marie, who is a horrible lizard person. Marie sucks.
Also it features Marie, who is a horrible lizard person. Marie sucks.
Ultimadrago
Member
These issues really did create a tonal whiplash in Persona 5 more times than one. I recall the animated sequences actually left me confused with how many scenes were used as an avenue for fanservice. I mean you have a Beach scene, sure, but then you have a couple of other plot points which are simple to illustrate without ever going in a route for eye candy and it's done anyways.
It's a big disappointment and what I mean when bringing up the juxtaposition of the arcs, characters and "accommodating" players.
It's a big disappointment and what I mean when bringing up the juxtaposition of the arcs, characters and "accommodating" players.
I agree, it was the thing that annoyed me the most in an otherwise excellent game. Not that I can't handle that kind of stuff, but it wasn't funny or endearing in any way (especially not with Teddie), on the level of someone making a farting noise and expecting you to laugh.
No, I just wish Japanese developers were more aware of the fact that they're not just making games for Japan anymore. Persona is a global franchise now.
And my point is that I think this sort of stuff should be discussed instead of just shoved away with "oh it's just Japan who cares"
Ahh, now I remember. Thanks.
You weren't a fan of Naoto's incredibly springy, sentient boobs?
I mean in Persona 5 (super light first hour of the game/intro spoilers, but tagging just in case)
, so seems pretty par for the course to me.
But yeah, it's kind of weird and distracting as a western gamer.
the game starts off with everyone talking about how big of a piece of shit you are for essentially saving a woman from being raped
But yeah, it's kind of weird and distracting as a western gamer.
Incandenza
Banned
The thing about both P4 and P5 (can't speak to anything previous) is that they only take these issues seriously until their arcs have been "resolved" (i.e. you complete the dungeon associated with that character). Then suddenly the game feels free to make jokes at those characters' expense. Kanji's
sexuality
haha Kanji you're not gonna buttfuck us while we're sleeping, right?
gender identity
haha let's stare at her boobs at the hot springs!
abuse
haha you're gonna have to model nude for Yusuke!
"I didn't mind it" is not really a relevant answer. It's really about "who else was offended" or perhaps less strongly "who didn't care for this schtick" and "what is the impact of that." Such things could be of one the thousands of pin picks that lead to real hurting and perhaps should be better addressed.
Virtually all of the complaints come from overused of stock anime tropes and I think the people that get into these sorts of games are pretty acclimated to the cultural context of it. Not all of them feel strongly enough to be critical (or especially when the content comes from someone who doesn't subscribe to your culture you don't really have the leverage or authority), after a while it's just sort of accepted. It can't be helped.
Virtually all of the complaints come from overused of stock anime tropes and I think the people that get into these sorts of games are pretty acclimated to the cultural context of it. Not all of them feel strongly enough to be critical (or especially when the content comes from someone who doesn't subscribe to your culture you don't really have the leverage or authority), after a while it's just sort of accepted. It can't be helped.
This complaint doesn't make sense. The whole point established early on
is that he was set up by the dude hence why everyone thinks that
That's true, but Ryuji and even the MC in terms of what dialogue options you can select, are pretty insensitive about the entire thing, especially when you consider what happened literally a month prior.
Well every culture have their problem, for example: americans have no problem with gore in videos games where for us in Europe gore is extreme violence and should not be normalized or be a selling point.
So no let's not begin Japan are bad about this or this, please. Tropes are bad in general whatever the culture it's from. But like I already said, we should not have our vision clouded and overlook what Atlus did right instead.
Edit: people said there is nothing wrong with Gore on GAF, NOTHING wrong with seeing guts pour out of a body. Mortal Kombat is so okay, while anime tropes isn't on Gaf at all. I call that being an hypocrythe. Both are wrong specially murder.
Well if it's worth anything when you do Ann's Slink she tells you she always admired the sexy villain characterisation in movies, which I believe she saw as empowering. It's why her metaverse appearance as well as her Persona are what they are. Infact everyone has kind of a reason behind their metaverse appearance and Persona. Morgana wants to be human so he becomes biped and he wants to be that larger than life chivalrous hero which is why his Persona is Zorro...etc etc
Also a lot of what happens between Ann and Ryuji is completely normal between good friends that have chemistry, some sexual remarks/teasing is totally ok in that situation because it happens in real life too. People like to bring that beach scene a lot but it's a totally fine and silly way to tease and Ann laughing and saying "what you got a better opinion if me now?" Only serves to solidify this belief I have.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
you're welcome
benicillin
Banned
Yeah I mean you aren't wrong but it came
literally right after she was getting over being sexually harassed and had a teacher try and force her to sleep with him for her friend, and now her "new" friends are getting her in a situation where she'd have to pose nude. It was kind of uncomfortable and bizarre even for me - I didn't like the story beat and it really made Yusuke seem like a total creep, essentially blackmailing Anne into posing nude for him or he'd turn them into the cops.
They're ignorant teenagers. No biggie.
You learn more about what the MC was really charged/sued/arrested for later on and it makes sense why everybody was feeling that way.
The woman backed up the politicians false claim of the MC attacking both of them out of fear
I don't remember anything like this in this game except for the school trip? Where they talk about the bikinis but the guys get hit regardless. Typical anime thing. But I don't remember it being bad that anybody wants to grab someones ass or boobs or anything like that. o_o It sounds so dirty in your post.
Green Mamba
Member
I think that's the point.
Atlus did do a lot right with their stories.
But that makes their mis-steps in anime cliche's so much more pronounced.
Er, the context was
nude figure drawing, and Ann's bad acting just made it more sexual than it should have been.
But yeah the other two didn't give a crap about the situation and that kinda blows though. Probably could have been handled a bit better >.>