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[Chaos17]

Basically everything in this section

https://youtu.be/7R01Orqf054

Hahaha, okay they could've got their a better idea for their revenge but seeing the guys in those bad situations made me laugh. I concede this could've been different but I still laughed at the heroes, they were rightly punished
Persona 5 does kinda the same, if the game may go a little too far in the tropes, writers usually punish that bad behavior and shows that women are "strong" XD

 

[dan2026]

Persona is a fun series but this is as far from the truth as possible. Anything involving homosexuality is a joke, literally and figuratively.

This is sadly true.
And very disappointing in 2017.

I'd say it speaks volumes that of all the bizarre romantic interests in P5, there is not one gay one.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Persona is a fun series but this is as far from the truth as possible. Anything involving homosexuality is a joke, literally and figuratively.

Play 2.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Damn that's disappointing. I have P5 and am going to start it soon. It seems like something they'd have approached better since there's been so much time between entries. Is it a regional thing where Japan still struggles to deal with this stuff appropriately?

The beginning part of the game makes sense. So it's fine there. From my 40+ hours so far, the issue is more with some social links you can have later on in the game. Going that route is optional, but some do stick out.

 

[brau]

Damn that's disappointing. I have P5 and am going to start it soon. It seems like something they'd have approached better since there's been so much time between entries. Is it a regional thing where Japan still struggles to deal with this stuff appropriately?

tbh, i feel like P5 is a lot more grounded when it comes to its characters and its themes. It has some interesting encounters.

so far i find the friendships here to be a lot more interesting than P4G, even when there are a few scenes so far that have the 'fan service' in it. Game is a lot darker tho, so please go into the game with an open mind, i don't think it'll dissapoint you, since the game does so much better than P4G already.

 

[Indelible]

I had no problem with it, nothing in the game went into perversion territory like some other Japanese games.

 

[SirPinkyNose]

It's not a western game so it's fine.

 

[kewlmyc]

Damn that's disappointing. I have P5 and am going to start it soon. It seems like something they'd have approached better since there's been so much time between entries. Is it a regional thing where Japan still struggles to deal with this stuff appropriately?

P5 has less of it, though there is some stuff that you might find offensive circling around one of the party members (Ann).

 

[bananafactory]

Persona is a fun series but this is as far from the truth as possible. Anything involving homosexuality is a joke, literally and figuratively.

I really thought the early Kanji stuff was gonna tackle that well but it kind of just went nowhere

 

[Nonoriri]

In P5 you can't even buy a crepe without Morgana or Ryuji saying something to the effect of "crepes are for girls"

....

 

[Guess Who]

tbh, i feel like P5 is a lot more grounded when it comes to its characters and its themes. It has some interesting encounters.

so far i find the friendships here to be a lot more interesting than P4G, even when there are a few scenes so far that have the 'fan service' in it. Game is a lot darker tho, so please go into the game with an open mind, i don't think it'll dissapoint you, since the game does so much better than P4G already.

P5 is definitely a lot more grounded, and while there's still a few skeevy fanservice scenes, there's generally a whole lot less of the gross "whacky anime hijinks" stuff like the school trips and hot springs stuff in P4G. (Hell, P4G added even more of that stuff over vanilla P4.)

 

[JStein0222]

I see you Klepek

 

[Aeana]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

 

[kewlmyc]

In P5 you can't even buy a crepe without Morgana ir Ryuji saying something to the effect of "crepes are for girls"

....

They're dumb teenagers. Dumb teenagers say shit like that all the time.

Shows what they know, crepes are delicious.

 

[ibyea]

Reminds me of the fact that Teddy is the worst, with Yusuke being second. Teddy is far more unbearable though because sexual harassment is all he has.

 

[Powalski]

Damn that's disappointing. I have P5 and am going to start it soon. It seems like something they'd have approached better since there's been so much time between entries. Is it a regional thing where Japan still struggles to deal with this stuff appropriately?

Keep in mind that what may be considered appropriate here is entirely different over in Japan and those themes may not carry well into our culture. It doesn't mean that they are inappropriate or incorrect, or that they're struggling. It just means they have different cultural standards than us.

 

[DJ_Lae]

I think Persona 5 handles that stuff a lot better, although there are still a couple of questionable moments in there (and some really embarassing characters).

 

[Espada]

Persona 5 does feel a lot better in regards to a lot of this.

Granted they didn't try and tackle any sort of gay issues this time, thank god.

No it doesn't. The sexualization thing is just as bad in P5, and the shit they pull with LGBT representation is just as backwards. I couldn't believe how shameless it is, too.

 

[bananafactory]

Keep in mind that what may be considered appropriate here is entirely different over in Japan and those themes may not carry well into our culture. It doesn't mean that they are inappropriate or incorrect, or that they're struggling. It just means they have different cultural standards than us.

True. I don't profess to have any real concept of Japanese culture or norms when it comes to entertainment, I don't watch anime and have never visited Asia. The full extent of my exposure to it is JRPGS like Final Fantasy.

It's just a bit surprising, I guess, to play something like this in 2017. But I do recognize a lot has changed in the nearly 10 years since it was written.

 

[VendettaRed07]

.

 

[theJwac]

Keep in mind that what may be considered appropriate here is entirely different over in Japan and those themes may not carry well into our culture. It doesn't mean that they are inappropriate or incorrect, or that they're struggling. It just means they have different cultural standards than us.

Yes, I think this is worth consideration. As I mentioned in my post, I'm completely ignorant to what these cultural standards may be. Regardless, this won't deter me from playing P5. Just because I enjoy a TV show like Game of Thrones doesn't mean I condone

Spoiler

incest or patricide

or murder in general.

 

[DryvBy]

This game really acted out my fantasies though. Hidden deep within my memory bank and awakened after P4G was my longing desire to sneak into the lady's room/bathhouse and get a peakski at my waifu friends. Of course, with my giant teddy bear man that just "wants to score".

I never saw anything remotely wrong in this game, just a "boys will be boys" set of situations. It helped reconfirm a lot of my adolescent morals and continue on the path I'm currently on: to score.

 

[Gaminar]

Wasn't meant for westerners completely. You're not Japanese. Moving on.

 

[BiggNife]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

It really feels like people are so desensitized to gross sexist/homophobic jokes in Japanese games that the typical fanservicey stuff doesn't phase anyone anymore and it's just considered "normal." Which is dumb. This stuff should still be called out.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

All after the game had an arc that went into how somebody treated her as nothing other than an object to leer at and try to have sex with and how that's bad.

And then the game proceeds to objectify that character any opportunity it gets.

 

[DrFunk]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

Afterwards,

Spoiler

the leering characters just go back to what they were doing beforehand without acknowledgement. It's weird as fuck

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

I think that IMO the stuff in P4G is worse than anything in P5. (So far).

Still there a ton, not gonna lie. Tons of embarrasing moments and Ann is treated like a sex object, especially in animated scenes.

But some of the content in P4/P4G was personally more shitty. 1 long event in particular made me legit facepalm.

 

[SliceSabre]

In P5 you can't even buy a crepe without Morgana or Ryuji saying something to the effect of "crepes are for girls"

....

But Ryuji and Morg say dumb shit...like constantly.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yes, I think this is worth consideration. As I mentioned in my post, I'm completely ignorant to what these cultural standards may be, however. I think with a given form of entertainment. Regardless, this won't deter me from playing P5. Just because I enjoy a TV show like Game of Thrones doesn't mean I condone

Spoiler

incest or patricide

or murder in general.

I don't get these comparisons. Does GoT imply that

Spoiler

incest or patricide

are not morally problematic or something? Are those scenes played for laughs and shown to be harmless fun?

C'mon. It's not that sexual harassment is present in the game, it's how it's depicted that people object to.

 

[Hoje0308]

So, in the eyes of some, the "cultural norms" argument means shit like this is cool?

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

Fuck that.

 

[Aki-at]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

Ryuji peers down Ann's top at one point too.

And then there is the "comedic" gay people who chase after Ryuji.

I've felt P5 has the same level of issues as P4. Albeit focused more on one specific character than the group before.

 

[Makonero]

Wasn't meant for westerners completely. You're not Japanese. Moving on.

yep all japanese are misogynists who just want to peek at women in bathrooms and score!!!!

you solved the mystery!

 

[brau]

P5 is definitely a lot more grounded, and while there's still a few skeevy fanservice scenes, there's generally a whole lot less of the gross "whacky anime hijinks" stuff like the school trips and hot springs stuff in P4G. (Hell, P4G added even more of that stuff over vanilla P4.)

I was not aware of how many things they added to P4G over the vanilla until very recently. Quite the realization.

I am happy that the game takes itself a little bit more seriously than the campy P4 feeling. Its still a Persona game at its core tho. I also like the personalities of a lot of characters. Makoto is awesome.

 

[stupei]

When people talk about how we've only recently been "taught" to be "sensitive" to this kind of thing, so that these creative choices can be viewed as a wholly acceptable artifact of our past, they are making it very clear that not only are they a guy but that they also assume on some subconscious level that everyone they're engaging with is as well.

Women never needed to be "taught" that it's not okay when men are invasive creeps who objectify them.

All after the game had an arc that went into how somebody treated her as nothing other than an object to leer at and try to have sex with and how that's bad.

And then the game proceeds to objectify that character any opportunity it gets.

The disconnect is so large that it sometimes feels as though the team writing the script never interacted directly with whoever did the animation and character design work.

 

[wmlk]

Apparently a large part of Ann's arc in P5 is going against this concept? Wouldn't it feel even worse and more out of place in P5?

 

[dan2026]

A lot of the fanservicy scenes in P5 feel bizarrely out of sync with the other writing and plot in the game.

Its like one guy did 99% of it. Then another guy just added in some fanservice for shits n giggles.

 

[Arkeband]

What? No it doesn't. There's one scene and that's pretty much it, and there isn't even any groping.

Last night I played through a scene where Ryuji is approached by two super flamboyantly gay guys and I 'abandon' him with them, and he approaches the group in the morning and basically makes it sound like by not intervening, I put his sexuality at risk or something.

I'm not going to pretend that straight guys never act averse to homosexuality, but the way it was written was just strange - being gay was the joke and the punchline.

P5 treats women like a joke too, I mean, the school treats Ann like a whore even though she's not, yet her Persona, a representation of her, has its giant tits completely flopped out. Also, one of your teachers is literally a prostitute that you can hire.

 

[Chaos17]

No it doesn't. The sexualization thing is just as bad in P5, and the shit they pull with LGBT representation is just as backwards. I couldn't believe how shameless it is, too.

During the entire game of walkthrough of 100h, you kinda have only 4-5 scenes where the guys are... dumb teenagers otherwise the women portayed in P5 are done well, you respect them, you don't mess with them and you like them. For me P5 has the most well done females characters from P3-P4.

If you focus only on those scenes and don't notice at all Altus work on portraying well women then maybe you and OP are taking this too far that you overlook the good parts. Heroines in Persona games have strong heart and it get better and better. Don't let some tropes blind you. Every culture have their bad tropes and ofc they've to go away but on't let that make stop to look wht's under the cover.

 

[joe2187]

Apparently a large part of Ann's arc in P5 is going against this concept? Wouldn't it feel even worse and more out of place in P5?

The next arc completely ignores that fact and uses her literally as a sexual prop to transition to the next dungeon. And The MC and Ryuji dont really care.

 

[Nonoriri]

But Ryuji and Morg say dumb shit...like constantly.

They're dumb teenagers. Dumb teenagers say shit like that all the time.

Shows what they know, crepes are delicious.

I want to buy a crepe goddamnit!

 

[Espada]

All after the game had an arc that went into how somebody treated her as nothing other than an object to leer at and try to have sex with and how that's bad.

And then the game proceeds to objectify that character any opportunity it gets.

There's one cutscene that gives us a camera angle far more perverted than fucking anything in P3 or 4, and it left me and my friends stunned that they went that far. Don't click if you don't want to get spoiled:

Spoiler

The beach scene which has the camera between aimed at the party from behind Ann's legs, crotch and ass in frame. I think she also adjusts her tiny bikini bottom too.

And that was after the other example some folks already mentioned. Hell, when my sister was visiting she was the one that pointed out Ann's sexed up battle posed as I'd become so inured to shit like that in Japanese games.

Apparently a large part of Ann's arc in P5 is going against this concept? Wouldn't it feel even worse and more out of place in P5?

Yup, the game's treatment of Ann is really inconsistent and the game's darker, more serious tone makes its failures stand out even more.

 

[Aeana]

All after the game had an arc that went into how somebody treated her as nothing other than an object to leer at and try to have sex with and how that's bad.

And then the game proceeds to objectify that character any opportunity it gets.

Literally the scene right before the upskirt part was a conversation between two characters about how women have to work extra hard to get ahead in Japan. It was extremely tone deaf.

 

[TheChaos]

It really feels like people are so desensitized to gross sexist/homophobic jokes in Japanese games that the typical fanservicey stuff doesn't phase anyone anymore and it's just considered "normal." Which is dumb. This stuff should still be called out.

It's not that. We as foreigners can call it out all we want but can't really do anything to change their mind, or pressure them to be more progressive regarding a society that we don't belong to.

 

[themaskedndi]

Dear everyone who claims they never noticed this stuff in P5: are you blind?

Ann basically exists as an object to be leered at. The characters even lean in for an upskirt view when she passes out once.

When does this happen? I don't remember this at all, just Ryuji trying to look down her shirt in the car.

I do think that the way the game sexualizes Ann is super weird considering her character arc.

 

[DryvBy]

Yeah, persona 4 was just really fucking lame with a lot of those scenes. 3 and 5 have it too, but it felt egregious in 4.

Yosukes constant homophobia and Teddie being a sex pest were really frustrating. Especially as you could never call them out on it.

The girls do call Teddie out on it by asking if he even knows what scoring means

Spoiler

(he doesn't)

, and the way they do is great.

 

[Deft Beck]

Teenage anime tropes.

I can overlook them, though.

 

[hipsterpants]

Apparently a large part of Ann's arc in P5 is going against this concept? Wouldn't it feel even worse and more out of place in P5?

I mean, there's only a handful of scenes that do this, the desert drive scene being the worst. It's also pretty much limited to two characters (Ryuji and Ann). P4's camping trip is worse than the entirety of P5 combined.

 

[gbland]

So basically Persona

this ^^

 

[Aeana]

When does this happen? I don't remember this at all, just Ryuji trying to look down her shirt in the car.

I do think that the way the game sexualizes Ann is super weird considering her character arc.

Spoiler

The hot pot sequence

 

[mdubs]

The next arc completely ignores that fact and uses her literally as a sexual prop to transition to the next dungeon. And The MC and Ryuji dont really care.

Ryuji and the MC are dumb teenagers. I don't expect a high level of maturity or awareness from them in their scenes.