Oh please. No one misunderstood anything. MS just blatantly lied about it like everything else they've done.
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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Oh please. No one misunderstood anything. MS just blatantly lied about it like everything else they've done.
Handy Fake
Member
Their posts on this thread are a summation of the problem with the clause in a microcosm: Come in with a fixed agenda, be unwilling or unable to debate it, insult devs and those with a vested interest in the outcome, then fuck off with your fingers in your ears.
I can't tell if this is a joke post or not, and others have already said that you've entirely missed the point of the thread. However, you are also assuming that everyone who just bought an XBO has a PC. That's a big assumption.
Not only that, but where exactly is this overwhelming media agreement? And since when did the media opinion on the relatively few AAA titles that comprise the bulk of their advertising ever
A) decide for each and every one of us exactly what is and is not worth playing
B) comprise the entirety of the games each of us is interested in
C) decide platform owner's policy regarding indie developers?
I don't need anyone to decide for me what is worth playing. This policy is not of benefit to XBO players. Even if they did curate the platform (and, if you read the OP, you'd know that they don't), a decent filter system that promotes games that gamers think are great is better than it having a tiny fraction of what's available on the PS4.
Indie gaming is one of the success stories in a year of broken-at-launch AAA games. They deserve all the support they can get to sell games, hone their skills and grow as developers that they can, so that we aren't relying on such a small set of risk-averse huge developers to provide content in future. Any platform owner with an eye on the market in five years time should consider that.
Veritigo_X
Member
He's too lazy to be a shill. He's not even going to defend his post outside of posting a funny picture.
Niteandgrey
Neo Member
Very good post, Chubigans.
I'm currently involved in the development of an indie game. We do not have the resources to develop concurrently for both the PS4 and the Xbox One. The result of the parity clause is that we're putting no resources or planning into an Xbox One version of our game.
For a small development team, all the Parity Clause does is force the developer to choose one or the other. Given the PS4's significant edge in market penetration, the choice is a very simple one.
I understand why Microsoft implemented this clause and I wouldn't dream of questioning their right to do so. But this is the sort of clause that has to be implemented from a position of strength.
What's potentially even worse for Microsoft is that this parity clause could reinforce the current sales contrast.
I'm currently involved in the development of an indie game. We do not have the resources to develop concurrently for both the PS4 and the Xbox One. The result of the parity clause is that we're putting no resources or planning into an Xbox One version of our game.
For a small development team, all the Parity Clause does is force the developer to choose one or the other. Given the PS4's significant edge in market penetration, the choice is a very simple one.
I understand why Microsoft implemented this clause and I wouldn't dream of questioning their right to do so. But this is the sort of clause that has to be implemented from a position of strength.
What's potentially even worse for Microsoft is that this parity clause could reinforce the current sales contrast.
Can someone explain to me why some Xbox One owners are defending this stance? (On other sites it's even worse than here)
I mean it's like they're actively fighting against having more games on their preferred platform.
That sounds pretty irrational to me... what's wrong with more games?
I mean it's like they're actively fighting against having more games on their preferred platform.
That sounds pretty irrational to me... what's wrong with more games?
Zombie James
Banned
Excellent thread about one of the biggest piece of shit policies I've ever seen. Whoever thought that handcuffing indie developers - who already deal with enough pressure releasing on one platform as it is, let alone two at once - should be fired.
Mihos
Gold Member
This is one of those policies that backfired and isn't just bad for their competitors, but bad for everyone. You don't have to hate MS to hate this policy, just like you don't have to hate PS to want them to fix their damn network. But... stop trying to tell people what they need and if you seriously think your opinion is worth hearing more than that of one of the guys in the trenches dealing with this stuff... I would stay out of indie game discussions completely if I were you, because you are seriously out of your league.
Microsoft has been pretty good with changing their policies over the last two years. Arguably the reason behind that would be losing in sales compared to PS4. But i think if enough people pressure them about it this policy can also be changed. Clearly what Spencer wants to happen with this policy (ie indies coming to them first) isn't happening.
Er, you're the guy that just said the only thing that matters is the incredibly safe choices of the AAA market, right?
this is epic
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Woops, my apologies... I meant to make a post about even more games that are announced since September but got busy. I'll try and do it tonight. Would love to help you flesh out the list even more so that MS can see the full extent of the damages they are creating with this policy...not just in the short term, but long term with developer support.
Holy shit at you actually doubling down on this nonsense. What's wrong with you.
Oh, I see. Everyone hush, this guy knows what's up.
shiftplusone
Member
I dont know why everyone is jumping on open_mouth
see? nothing to freak out about
He's not dumb and biased towards MS he's just dumb and unbiased
"lets not shit on 3rd party developers" is a weird trend to want to change
see? nothing to freak out about
He's not dumb and biased towards MS he's just dumb and unbiased
/s
"lets not shit on 3rd party developers" is a weird trend to want to change
Haunted
Member
It's a really simple story, Microsoft tried to use their strong position in the market to muscle indie devs into a situation that's
While Sony tried their best to court indie devs to consider a console as their second home after Steam/PC, MS tried to bully them into the same.
The results of these different approaches are in and it's not looking pretty for Microsoft.
- detrimental to PS4
- detrimental to gamers
- detrimental to indie devs
- beneficial to XB1
While Sony tried their best to court indie devs to consider a console as their second home after Steam/PC, MS tried to bully them into the same.
The results of these different approaches are in and it's not looking pretty for Microsoft.
Media consensus, such as claiming that titantfall was to be the second coming of the videogame blockbuster or like when media consensus was that it was too soon to tell whether people still wanted consoles for gaming as consoles were flying off shelves? Always reassuring, no doubt.open_mouth_ said:
Haunted
Member
Yay, WiiU!Hey thanks for the kind words! Can't wait to unveil my next game next year, for PC and hopefully for more than one console platform.
You sure do open mouth for Microsoft.
I agree for the most part but there's a lot to consider here on all sides IMO. I think from MS standpoint, if the point of having the policy in the first place was to try and circumvent indies giving them sloppy seconds, then getting rid of the policy just enables something that they were trying to prevent in the first place more than anything. Pressure from the hardcore isnt gonna do much (as has been proven). Throwing "numbers of games" that are just OK or "good" at the problem isnt going to achieve much. There needs to be a runaway critical hit or two that releases on PS4 first and blows up that the dev then publically, loudly, & proudly gives MS the FU finger when they come to them with an exception for release. It's my belief that nothing will change until something like this happens.
Like another dev said in this thread, at this point in the game, MS needs to and should do more to make their offering more attractive if they expect devs to come to them first. But it goes both ways in my eyes. Devs will soon have to consider leaving a lot of money on the table as these userbases grow and this is what MS is banking on I bet. There will be some that just rule them out on general principal. But money talks...
Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Come on chub...get it together!
The media consensus is Xbox One had a stronger fall lineup, because their 1st party offerings (FH2, SO, MCC) > Sony's first party offerings (DC, LBP3), not overall library.
Anyways, I own both consoles, and I think to those that own both, MS already lost in this respect. For console indie titles, play PS4 (good job Adam and team securing that place). MS will have a hard time winning that battle back this generation.
But for those core gamers that only own and play games on Xbox One, I don't know how you wouldn't feel like you're missing out. This year offhand I can think of Rogue Legacy, Spulunky, and Steamworld Dig as amazing games that were released first elsewhere, but I was excited to get on my PS4. This policy is hurting their most devoted fans, those that won't game anywhere else by keeping great games out of their hands. The mainstream casual gamer might not care so much, but the people that will invest their dollars into the Microsoft Store every week if something good comes out are being left with a lot of options not given to them.
The indie game landscape is getting stronger and stronger as it has replaced mid-tier publisher driven development. It's going to matter more as this generation goes forward. If MS wants ID@Xbox to thrive, they need to drop this policy. Then they'll be treating their fans the best they can and they can start trying to repair the relationship with indie devs this policy has soured.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I may be incorrect but if I remember correctly, doesn’t Sony have more 80+ rated games on PS4 than Microsoft does with XBO?
If that’s the case (Which im quite sure it is) then your comment is wrong, metacritic might not be the best way to judge a game but if your gonna use it as a weapon you should make sure you’re not pointing it at your own face before firing it.
Haunted
Member
They've gone and done it... they've gone and woke the sleeping dragon now.
Indies should have left well enough alone and now they're going to get it. It's not enough that they're bleeding benjamins from practically every crevice of their existence. Now they go and throw immense criticism at a niche game maker like Microsoft just to piss off the market. Why talk to keep a console out of the hands of as many gamers as possible? Why not put that effort into their games instead?
I know, I know... this is the way the business goes as they say. Well, they forced Microsoft's hands with their early sales lead and Microsoft only responded with an NPD whooping (source: musings thread) by way of incredible deals and value. Microsoft will undoubtedly follow this announcement up with some real megatons of their own.
Braid remake collection. A true Fez sequel. Hyper Light Drifter beta in the hands of gamers. The next Spelunky, Rogue Legacy, Binding of Isaac as exclusives. Those are the kinds of blockbuster response announcements I expect, and then some. You hit Microsoft with a jab, you best be ready for a flurry of uppercuts coming at you in response.
Indies should have left well enough alone and now they're going to get it. It's not enough that they're bleeding benjamins from practically every crevice of their existence. Now they go and throw immense criticism at a niche game maker like Microsoft just to piss off the market. Why talk to keep a console out of the hands of as many gamers as possible? Why not put that effort into their games instead?
I know, I know... this is the way the business goes as they say. Well, they forced Microsoft's hands with their early sales lead and Microsoft only responded with an NPD whooping (source: musings thread) by way of incredible deals and value. Microsoft will undoubtedly follow this announcement up with some real megatons of their own.
Braid remake collection. A true Fez sequel. Hyper Light Drifter beta in the hands of gamers. The next Spelunky, Rogue Legacy, Binding of Isaac as exclusives. Those are the kinds of blockbuster response announcements I expect, and then some. You hit Microsoft with a jab, you best be ready for a flurry of uppercuts coming at you in response.
I don't have time to get into back in forths all day. That's why I say my piece and let people digest. They usually come around, I've found. Every company has their own policies/reasons... some you agree with, some you don't. Some of you want Microsoft and Sony to be exactly the same in every respect. It doesn't work that way, nor should we want it to. These companies should be bold enough to buck the trends.
On a side note, who even has time for all these games these days. I can't even keep up with the Xbox One's library as it is and some people want even more games released weekly. I'll leave you with a pic that sums up my feelings:
I agree with what you're saying... the 3DS does indeed shit all over the Xbone.
he's making fun of open_mouth's post from another topic
I really couldn't give a flying crap about indie games to be honest, every now and then there are some good ones, for the most part I find them cliche.
I find these sort of arguments where Sony has 50 games Microsoft won't have, or Sony has all the indie support, to just be dick measuring. Let's face it, the majority of the install base either aren't going to play these indie games or will play a couple of them, this is just number games to say ha, my console is better...
It's the same with PC gaming, we have all of these indies! Yeah, but I don't get anything from them, it seems like indie's are the be all end all, I don't think they are. I honestly don't gett how this fuss about them started a couple of years back, I think the only indies I've played and enjoyed are Limbo and... Can't think of anything else.
Indie games to me are on par with mobile games.
I find these sort of arguments where Sony has 50 games Microsoft won't have, or Sony has all the indie support, to just be dick measuring. Let's face it, the majority of the install base either aren't going to play these indie games or will play a couple of them, this is just number games to say ha, my console is better...
It's the same with PC gaming, we have all of these indies! Yeah, but I don't get anything from them, it seems like indie's are the be all end all, I don't think they are. I honestly don't gett how this fuss about them started a couple of years back, I think the only indies I've played and enjoyed are Limbo and... Can't think of anything else.
Indie games to me are on par with mobile games.
Perfect.
That's actually not a bad point. Probably the only one in your nonsensical rambling. Why is Microsoft insisting on keeping this policy ? I guess there were several options :
- They truthfully believe in Phil Spencer's delusive explanation about that premium experience
- They believe this will force developers to delay the PS4 versions, thus lowering the numbers of exclusive of their concurrent.
The recent month, as well as the OP, have demonstrated that both point are flawed - Xbox One gamers are simply missing on many games, and games are getting announced as PS4 exclusives. So then is there any other reasons they will keep that policy in the near future ?
Dirtyshubb
Member
Does that make your opinion on par with mobile games too?
Soooo, you could give a flying crap about indie games, if you're being honest.
Thought the original was a parody post. Not so sure anymore.
FranXico
Member
iunderstoodthatreference.gif
TypuyBaran
Banned
I'm just one user and speak only for myself but... I could not POSSIBLY give any less of a crap about indy games. In my experience, they are all complete shit, low budget crap.
It really is amazing just how selfish and tone deaf so many gamers are.
1. It does not matter if you like indies. That has nothing to do with this issue.
2. It does not matter if the only indie you liked was Limbo. That has nothing to do with this issue.
3. It is not about fucking dick measuring. Are you goddamn serious right now?
4. YOU ARE NOT EVERYONE.
If I hated indies, I would STILL want this to end. Indies are the most vulnerable developers in the industry, and Microsoft has a policy that specifically damages them (and XBO-only gamers). As an aside, indies create games in every genre you can think of, with every scope, visual direction, etc. You cannot hate indies, it's not a genre. Your attempt to paint them with a broad brush is thoughtless bullshit. To say they're "on par with mobile games" - which is in of itself offensive - suggests blatant willful ignorance and should not be commended by anyone.
On top of that, indies are the driving force for meeting the idiosyncratic needs of gamers with a hugely diverse range of tastes, and try concepts that are too risky for AAAs or are in genres that have been left for dead (and no, not for good reason). So, what you're advocating is for infinitely less diversity in the industry.
Once more, it does not matter how much you like indies, or how popular you think they are. It doesn't change how bad the policy is, it doesn't change the people getting hurt in this equation, it doesn't change how fucking much Microsoft needs to change it.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Haunted
Member
Don't worry, I don't think you only speak for yourself, MS seems to agree with you.
Oh no no, the original must be said in earnest, that's what makes it worth parodying.
FranXico
Member
You have misunderstood the intention behind this thread.
Handy Fake
Member
At this point everyone who says this needs a tag labeling just how willfully ignorant they're being.
If people are going to pridefully parade that ignorance about, might as well really draw attention to it.
They're coming out of the woodworks now.
TypuyBaran
Banned
Yeah... Ummm... No!
Night Angel
Member
And this post is where I figured out that he was a masterful troll.
It really does make his posts more fun to read.