Am i hitting some nerves here or something?. We are talking about Indie games from what i can see.
Can you please read the OP?
Jesus.
Am i hitting some nerves here or something?. We are talking about Indie games from what i can see.
can you not read? it's the underlying policy affecting indie games, and not necessarily the games or the lists that are composed of them that this thread is about. take your agenda elsewhere.Am i hitting some nerves here or something?. We are talking about Indie games from what i can see.
Well from the twitter chatter it always seemed as he was a nice guy, even acknowledged the problems and was straight enough to admit the confines he had to work within and wish it wasn't so. Plus the fact that even Shahid jumped in and defended him when he got way more hate than should be possible.
You're probably hitting a few nerves and that's because what you're bringing up has little to do with the actual thread topic.Am i hitting some nerves here or something?. We are talking about Indie games from what i can see.
So your whole defence of your input is that Indie devs aren't missing out on any money because there's probably not many that buy their games?
Can you please read the OP?
Jesus.
I did read the op and i know what you're talking about. I don't see what was so wrong with asking that initial question, i thought some of you might know thats all.
Yea a lot of people are nice guys. The majority of people on the planet are nice people. What is he doing for the platform. We have a huge montage from August with a bunch of shit that ain't out yet (and will likely be multiplatform). Meanwhile some of the best games on the PS4 platform are indie games.
I did read the op and i know what you're talking about. I don't see what was so wrong with asking that initial question, i thought some of you might know thats all.
Am i hitting some nerves here or something?. We are talking about Indie games from what i can see.
Look at what you posted.No, i was just talking about Indie games in general.
My initial question was just simply wondering if any research had been done on how many overall games actually buy Indie games, it seemed a fair thread for it as people in here seem to be big fans of Indie games.
I did read the op and i know what you're talking about. I don't see what was so wrong with asking that initial question, i thought some of you might know thats all.
That's the reason people aren't taking you 'interest' seriously. Indie games aren't some lesser form of game. I've had more enjoyment out of some indie games than I have from AAA releases.Well i just find these threads a bit misleading. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of PS4/X1 owners don't know that Indie games even exist, never mind actually buying them.
Indie games have messed up list wars, thats for sure.
I did read it, but I answered your question honestly.You should read the rest of my post, it will lay out quite clearly why they were never going to say it and why even if they did they probably wouldn't announce it anyway.
Yea a lot of people are nice guys. The majority of people on the planet are nice people. What is he doing for the platform. We have a huge montage from August with a bunch of shit that ain't out yet (and will likely be multiplatform). Meanwhile some of the best games on the PS4 platform are indie games.
If by "nerve" you mean you're making it very obvious with each passing post what your agenda is (attempt to devalue the importance of indies to try to distract from what this topic is about), then yes. You've hit a nerve.
The issue is it doesn't matter how important you think indies are, or what the data says on how many people buy their console for indies (Also: you don't have to buy a console for indies to love them and think this is profoundly fucked up. Also, you can hate them and still understand how fucked up it is, since it indisputably is).
This thread is simple:
Has the ID@Xbox parity clause hurt Microsoft in terms of the games it is receiving? Yes. Has the ID@Xbox parity clause hurt Xbox One gamers in terms of the breadth of options they have for game purchases? Yes. Has the ID@Xbox parity clause been damaging to indies themselves, the most vulnerable in this industry? Yes. Has the ID@Xbox parity clause caused less indie developers to commit to XBO? Yes. Has the ID@Xbox parity clause caused far less highly rated (metacritic 80+ games) to come to XBO? Yup, far less.
Every one of these can be summed up as: "The ID@Xbox parity clause is a bad policy and it needs to be fixed", with the rest of our posts going to provide evidence for how big the disparity for releases is because of it and how badly it hurts individual indies.
None of this topic is about how important you personally find indies, or how much the market cares about indies. That's irrelevant to the discussion about this policy being bad policy.
Well what can he do? He has good relations from those in the program from what I gather. He is working within the rules his bosses set for him.
Basically "doing his best in a shitty situation". This clause is hurting him as well you know :/
Fair enough.
I should of made it clear that my posts were made towards Indie games in general rather than this particular discussion.
As for Microsoft policies, surely Indies themselves will of let Microsoft know if they had major problems with these policies. If Microsoft aren't going to change their minds then Indie developers will have to do whats best for themselves.
A shame that BruiserBear cannot be here finding a way to defend this clause, yet again.
Look at what you posted.
That's the reason people aren't taking you 'interest' seriously. Indie games aren't some lesser form of game. I've had more enjoyment out of some indie games than I have from AAA releases.
No one cares that you don't think indie games are real games, because it has nothing to do with this thread at all.
This thread is about a Microsoft policy that makes life worse for indie devs and gives Xbox One owners less choice in games.
A shame that BruiserBear cannot be here finding a way to defend this clause, yet again.
Why wouldn't you include them in lists then?I never said any of that. None of my posts alluded to that.
Asking how many overall gamers buy Indie games does not allude to any of that.
Didn't Outlast come to XBO recently? How did it bypass the parity clause out of interest?
Didn't Outlast come to XBO recently? How did it bypass the parity clause out of interest?
See then you are a prime example of someone that should let MS know that it's something that needs to change. I'm sure a lot of those developers wish they could give you the opportunity to earn your achievements.Gotta admit that I would buy many of these on my X1 over my PS4 simply to earn more acheivements.
So does he get credit for giving exceptions to some late ass ports of free to play games, that turd strike suit zero and pure pool? Man he really got one done for the gamers with those gems. Maybe when all of the games that were in the montage come out I can say man, he really did a lot for me, but right now Cuphead, Below, Ori, and the limbo guys things are the only sure fire gems to me.
Indie devs have let them know. But that doesn't mean we at GAF can't make another topic bringing awareness to the issue again.
Look how many people in this topic said they didn't even know about this or how serious a problem it is. Companies that want to stick to bad policy thrive on such ignorance; they want people to stay in the dark so they can continue to keep these policies unabated. Only vocal and educated consumers can really make that a difficult proposition over the long term.
See then you are a prime example of someone that should let MS know that it's something that needs to change. I'm sure a lot of those developers wish they could give you the opportunity to earn your achievements.
Hes securing games for the platform within the constraints that have been given to him. Games aren't made in a day, you know why games are announced when they are? To generate hype and interest, presumably putting a game on-stage somewhere is also a big part of what MS/Sony offer to get a game on their platform (or first on their platform) because of the promotion it offers.
Hes not developing the games, he's signing them to the platform then helping to facilitate the development needs of the team making the game should they need assistance etc.
Do you not think his job would be a lot easier if the parity clause didn't exist? Considering the parity clause, I think he's done a good job. And to me personally, he always answers my questions, is very nice etc, I think he's doing a good job.
Playstation just had a big event to announce more games, if Microsoft had an event round the corner you'd see a similar sort of thing of more games coming to the platform from indies too.
Man I feel for you I do. If I was the big honcho of the world I would make it so that everyone could play every game no matter region/platform/income. Even if you only had enough income/internet to be streaming a shitty 240p image I would want to make it possible for everyone to play whatever game. But hey that ain't happening so all we can do is at least try to make the best of every situation. In this case. Scream at MS(not individuals) and really make them understand how shitty the situation is. A situation they themselves have created. People with better pens than me should scream at them though since I can't type for shit. I can probably BS you into selling me your kidney for two rocks if I met you though.
I never said any of that. None of my posts alluded to that.
Asking how many overall gamers buy Indie games does not allude to any of that.
Well i just find these threads a bit misleading. I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of PS4/X1 owners don't know that Indie games even exist, never mind actually buying them.
Indie games have messed up list wars, thats for sure.
The people who keep making these threads i'm sure.
I'm someone who always buys both Playstation and Xbox consoles so stuff like that doesn't bother me. I just find it interesting when Indie games keep getting used in these kind of threads comparing game amounts.
Didn't Outlast come to XBO recently? How did it bypass the parity clause out of interest?
I get it. He's a nice guy. I don't know how to judge his performance other than by looking at the portfolio of indie games on the platform. Right now it is poor compared to the competition.
And I hope you also realise that why his performance is so bad is due to the parity clause?
yup. It's XBO gamers (and indies) that are hurt by this. Sony is clearly only benefiting at this point.
I have a feeling they might announce dropping this parity shit at E3. Best place for the impact.
While I understand the passion surrounding this issue, the things that always bugs me in these threads are there never seems to be any information about developers who have inquired with MS about being an exception to the clause. Is the rate of denial high? Low? Are they unreasonable to deal with when the clause is discussed?
Theres an Xbox feedback post for this with over 900 votes if anyone else wanted to join in on it...
It's certainly one reason it may be hard. Certainly it can't be hard to lobby for a late port of Spelunky or Fez. These are two of the most important games of last gen. Look at the games that somehow got around using a loophole. Literally some of the shittiest games in the library.
Yes, of course he should be able to sidestep the clause. These are popular games. And has there been a defenitive no for these games? from the devs or MS? Could still be in the works and it's just not yet time to announce it?
I don't know how it'd be possible for us to get that data. They probably get an insane amount of requests, and does anyone think MS is going to publish data that makes them look like shits?
All we have to go on is the endless comments from indie devs, not a one who has been positive on the ID@Xbox parity clause and the massive, massive disparity in game releases. So I'm guessing not good as a starting point.
snip
Did you miss all the 180s at the start of the gen?
Again, no one is disputing they have made some exceptions. In fact, that's the running joke - that King/Lord Phil Spencer is going to graciously allow a developer to get through the clause if they give a really really good reason and/or have an important enough game.
Ehhh...it sure seemed like you were alluding to it with these posts.
This is a great post.Indies are the new B tier game. The ones that offer a unique gameplay experience, the ones that experiment, the ones that take risks and don't just release the same old tired game in the same old tired genre.
They are the games that fill the gap when there aren't any big AAA releases on the horizon or when people are tired of playing through the same old big ticket cinematic adventure. They make gaming enjoyable, the small treasures that allow developers to fully express themselves and tell stories they want to tell.
Or buy a really good dinner and a bottle of Remy Martin.