Did not expect laughs from this thread. Well done.
On topic, aside from the obvious selection bias, the general sentiment is no surprise. It's not a decision someone makes spontaneous and requires a great deal of maturity and responsibility.
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95% of women who've had abortion don't regret it, study
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On topic, aside from the obvious selection bias, the general sentiment is no surprise. It's not a decision someone makes spontaneous and requires a great deal of maturity and responsibility.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Huh?
It's true. I mean even this study says about as much. Women are emotionally vulnerable over it at first, but in time it fades away. *edit* Griss below said it more eloquently.
First thing I'd say is that there's a difference between 'not regretting something' and something not having caused you any trauma.
Second thing is most people come to terms with 99%+ of their decisions over a three year period. It's a coping mechanism.
I find the 26% / 53% numbers regarding whether it was an easy or difficult decision much more interesting. It's surprising to me that 53% of women would find it difficult. Must be because of religion, imo. It would make me sad if women were terminating potential children they wanted because they simply can't afford it but that appears to be the case.
Bottom line as always is no matter what side of the debate you're on, an end to poverty and increased sex ed would improve the situation immeasurably.
Second thing is most people come to terms with 99%+ of their decisions over a three year period. It's a coping mechanism.
I find the 26% / 53% numbers regarding whether it was an easy or difficult decision much more interesting. It's surprising to me that 53% of women would find it difficult. Must be because of religion, imo. It would make me sad if women were terminating potential children they wanted because they simply can't afford it but that appears to be the case.
Bottom line as always is no matter what side of the debate you're on, an end to poverty and increased sex ed would improve the situation immeasurably.
I believe it. I'm amazed how many and which women have told me about having the procedure. Many out of urgent necessity because of personal health where they weren't in the condition to carry a healthy child to full term. It would have been horrible for them to not have access to that legally. One of them is my step mother and she said the catholic hospital she was in wouldn't do it despite the immediate detriment to her complicated by her poor health for which she was heavily medicated and hospitalized for at the time.
Dumb fucks. If you wont save someone's life, don't be a goddamn doctor.
Dumb fucks. If you wont save someone's life, don't be a goddamn doctor.
am i the only one who didn't understand this statment?
and the people i know that have had them, they don't regret it, so...
kingwingin
Member
I don't get it either
Saying that people who have kids regret having them a lot more than 5%
Gentleman Jack
Member
"More than 5% of women who didn't get that abortion regret that decision."
TheSlySoul
Member
It figures because women who get abortions generally regret getting pregnant.
A study about women who didn't get abortions regretting it would be way more interesting.
A study about women who didn't get abortions regretting it would be way more interesting.
I hope for the sake of their children they'd keep such a study anonymous...
kunonabi
Member
My mom has never quite gotten over the abortion she had before me. Preliminary testing showed the kid was probably going to be "developmentally delayed" and with my dad's age and with our other circumstances she didn't want to risk the kid getting lost in the system if something happened to her. She stands by her decision but it still tears her up inside. But it people want to believe abortions are all rainbows and sunshine then go ahead.
TheSlySoul
Member
Oh yeah, generally studies are conducted with confidentiality agreements which means it would be anonymous.
I am mostly just curious since it would be stronger evidence in not giving choice is bad.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Anyone ever say anything remotely close to this?
hockeypuck
Member
You realize you rebutted a peer-reviewed epidemiological study with anecdotal evidence, right?
What I find somewhat impressive with this study is that the interviewers allowed for "I don't know" as an acceptable answer, clumped those percentages with the "no" group for the question of whether the study participant thought having the abortion was the right thing to do, and still came up with 5% combined.
Then this study is not applicable to your mother, since the exclusion criteria specifically only included pregnant women with no known fetal anomalies.
TheSlySoul
Member
Also considering 5% of 650 people is 32 which means he can be right and the study still be valid.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
It's generally poor form to disregard a peer review study due to personal anecdotal evidence. It is one thing if you have issues with the way the study was performed, the way the data was presented, and/or the way the data was analyzed, but using anecdotal evidence for anything other than just an anecdotal comment is meaningless when discussing the validity of a study.
I don't know where the conclusion about emotional suffering comes from. You can not regret something and still suffer emotionally. Ex pulling the plug on a dying family member. The snippet provided even makes this claim but then contradicts by saying its a statistical retort against emotional suffering
Ash Sparrow
Banned
nm
Alex_Mexico
Member
Because you're murdering a human being?
Abortion is a touchy subject for me. I'm a liberal through and through with one exception being the "women have every right to do as they please with their bodies" because I'm all for that until it stops being her body and starts being someone else's.
I understand that in this world is full of grays and it's not black and white. I understand that a poor woman with 4 kids can't afford a fifth one (aside from the fact that we have to make a better job at educating on contraceptives). I understand that sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.
What I don't understand is when, to put an extreme example, a preppy high class girl that probably has her life resolved gets pregnant by being an irresponsible brat and instead of choosing to keep the baby or give it to adoption (new born babies for adoption are high in demand) she chooses to kill the human being instead. That's incredibly shitty, unforgivable and egotistical to me.
Maybe it is shreds of catholic education I got growing up but to me it's a fact that abortion is murder. And don't even get me started on women who abort as late as 8 months into a pregnancy. Doctors snip the baby's spinal cord insside the womb because if they do it once he/she's outside it would legally be considered murder.
My fucking ass.
hockeypuck
Member
Did you read the study? The free link is right there in first paragraph of the article itself, and a GAF member has already posted a direct link to the study in this thread.
The study specifically addresses your concern, using clinically-validated descriptions with severity ranges given to each emotion. The study found that not only were the aggregate points for negative emotions relatively low at baseline right after the abortion, but the aggregate points for negative emotions trended downwards over time (3 years later).
Cereal KiIIer
Member
95% of women, 99,999% of men.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Are you seriously telling me that an 8month old baby isn't murder just because he was killed inside the womb?
Murder is never good. But I can't sit here and point my finger at a poor mother of 5 and go "you should have that baby and raise it!" and move on. That's why I can understand why some people are cornered to do it. But I can't forgive a more fortunate woman who fucked up and is willing to murder a perfectly healthy baby instead of having it and give it to adoption (I'm serious how high in demand are newborn baby's for adoption. Adopting grown kids is the problem).
People, especially the more fortunate ones, should take responsibility for their actions. Fuck with a condom on, for fuck's sales!
Oh I guess I was confused by what they meant regarding emotional suffering. I thought pro-life arguments about emotional suffering were just talking about the negative reaction to the abortion which the data seems to support. Looking into a little bit more it seems they mean a negative reaction that is sustaining and does not subside
richardhawk
Member
Errrrr. I don't think people have 8 month abortions LEGALLY anywhere.
it absolutely is. that bratty high class girl has just as much a right to terminate her baby as a woman that has 4 kids. let's not even get into the whole are you really killing a baby thing.
also I may be wrong, but late term abortions like you're saying (8 months???) probably aren't the norm.
if only condoms were 100% effective.
The latest stage you can get an abortion in the United States is 24 weeks, or 6 months.
Dude Abides
Banned
But 100% of mediocre rappers are glad they weren't aborted.
Who is talking about illegal abortion here? While there may be cases where abortion this late is possible(probably due to the risk of the mother dying) this is not what this thread is about
Skellig Gra
Member
Not all women and men make wise decisions. That's how you end up with the need for abortions a lot of the time. Granted not all cases are just unwanted pregnancies but for the ones where it is it probably started with some poor decisions on both sexual partners (not talking about rape of course).
ultraspank
Member
apparently, for some people, all this is not enough :
Three things I immediately notice about this post:
1. Nowhere did the poster you are responding to mention abortion of an 8-month term pregnancy. I'm pretty sure that's not legal anywhere (I could be wrong). You are just jumping to the most extreme case automatically to try to win the argument here.
2. About your argument in general, you don't have to like abortion in general. That's fine, don't do it if you don't like it. I am not a woman, so I have no experience with it myself, but I would imagine some women probably have second thoughts with all the guilt tripping about it, and potentially whether they want to have a child or not. Some might not. Regardless, before the baby is born, it is still the woman's body. As horrible as this sounds, the fetus is parasitic in nature technically. I'm completely on the side of "her body her choice", it's the only route that makes sense. Like I said, if a woman doesn't want to have an abortion, that's fine, she doesn't have to. Nobody will make her, but when you bring the faux moral outrage and call it a self-supporting life form already, so therefore no one should be allowed to do it, that's where the problems come in. It is NOT the same thing as murdering a child that is already born. At that point the child is self-sustaining outside of the woman's body, it's now his or her own body.
3. You say "Fuck with a condom on, for fuck's sales!", however you are missing one major caveat: Shit happens. Rape, influence of substances (such as drugs or alcohol, whether in a date rape context or not), regretted decisions, condom broke, condom is defective some other way, or even the fact that condoms are technically not 100% effective, same goes for birth control short of tube tying. Some people either realize later they made bad decisions, got unlucky, or worse were a victim. There is a way to give them a second chance here, and it is still the woman's body, so why not give them that chance?
metalslimer
Member
Why are people still talking about late term abortions as if it is some common occurrence and not primarily done when the baby will likely die a horrible death at birth
GankzyMcfly
Member
Shock talk
Because exaggerations to the horrific and appeals to emotion are how you win the debate
travisbickle
Member
apparently, for some people, all this is not enough :
What's your point?
Well you be wrong. They are legal in Canada
Then what's a miscarriage? Manslaughter?
That's why a fetus can't have the same rights as a human being. Once out of the womb a newborn can be cared for by others, but inside is different.
For a woman pregnancy is life altering in ways that it isn't for men. The father can take off and might have to pay child support, but the woman has to go through an unpleasant 9 months, might lose her job, then, at the end of that wonderful ride, make an even harder decision.
Deciding to get an abortion early, is not the same as giving your child up for adoption. Frankly I trust women to decide whether they feel they want to go down that road or not. To me, its just shitty to sit atop my high horse proclaiming women alone need to suffer for bad decisions while the men can continue on as if nothing happened.
Late term (8 months) abortions are illegal unless its medically needed.
Unless of course you learned nothing of any of that because of Abstinence only education and/or your church saying condoms are for sinners.
ultraspank
Member
My point is use contraception when you fuck.
It's not clear enough?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Contraception isn't 100% effective.
You act like that all women that receive abortions could be using all of things in that picture at once, and that none of them fail, ever.
metalslimer
Member
Why?
I don't know for sure that's what he meant, but I think he's going by the sarcasm angle of "Pro-lifers would say that".
I could be wrong though.
Yeah, I would actually be more shocked if women who consider abortion didn't felt large amount of regrettable emotions, considering most of them either don't want the kid, or can't afford it.
Not only that, all the guilt tripping they will receive about it.
Although this is about AFTER the abortion, so probably in a lot of cases it probably comes down to "Yeah, that was a good decision"
Why should late term abortions be illegal if a fetus can't have the same rights as a human being until they are outside the uterus?
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