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[hooijdonk17]

I've never tried, but I'm curious. Can one not simply install both an AMD and Nvidia GPU into the same PC and specify which game uses which?

Short answer: no.

 

[Serandur]

Short answer: no.

Eh, I googled it. Various sources claim it is indeed possible with at least Windows 7 (multiple GPU drivers supported), as long as you have enough space and PCI slots that is. Can you explain the reasoning for your no? I am genuinely interested in knowing if this would work.

Edit: Maybe dual booting would work?

 

[pottuvoi]

Guys there is a simple technical reason why NV won't support Mantle:
1. Kepler can't support all features of GCN. Thus all current NV hardware isn't Mantle-compatible.
2. Maxwell will probably overshoot GCN in terms of features and this will mean that providing Mantle support for it instead of NV's own low level API will limit Maxwell's features available to developers.
All this talk of openness is just usual AMD PR bullshit. They didn't even specify what they mean by "open". But I think that's it's very telling that they've been developing it by themselves for two years in secret.

There is very easy fix for this.

Use different paths for each GPU architecture.
Similar on how DX11 handless SM3, SM4 and SM5 class hardware.

This also means that when GPU manufacturer creates a new architecture they have to create new path or partial path for a Mantle. (IE. AMD moving forward from GCN.)
Advantage is that every new feature AMD/Intel/Nvidia has in their card could be exposed, should be nice for Maxwell if it really has ARM cores.. etc.

 

[cripterion]

I've never tried, but I'm curious. Can one not simply install both an AMD and Nvidia GPU into the same PC and specify which game uses which?

You mean to get Physx going? Apparently Nvidia is cockblocking AMD as to not make it work if you have an a Radeon card in your system. I think there's a work around to it but dunno if it works.

 

[Serandur]

You mean to get Physx going? Apparently Nvidia is cockblocking AMD as to not make it work if you have an a Radeon card in your system. I think there's a work around to it but dunno if it works.

I was wondering about that as well, but I specifically meant along the lines of the way laptops allow you to switch between their integrated and dedicated GPUs depending on the task. I was wondering if I could use the Nvidia card to run some games and the AMD one for others. Just hypothetical stuff for my curiosity, it's not something I'm planning to do.

 

[Brad Grenz]

It used to be possible to use an AMD card for graphics and an nVidia card just as a PhysX accelerator, but nVidia actively blocks that in their drivers. I don't know if there are any currently working hacks for that.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Eh, I googled it. Various sources claim it is indeed possible with at least Windows 7 (multiple GPU drivers supported), as long as you have enough space and PCI slots that is. Can you explain the reasoning for your no? I am genuinely interested in knowing if this would work.

Edit: Maybe dual booting would work?

Long answer: Technically, you can run 2 gpus on the same mainboard over the same PCI bus with their respective drivers. Practically, these GPU drivers tend to fuck each other up. If you want to deal with a setup that offers you a massive headache for no apparent benefit, you are by all means free to try, and possibly even succeed. You are more likely to try and regret it though.

 

[DieH@rd]

And here is confirmation that Mantle is fully based about GCN arhitecture. It will be cross platform [more OS support], but not cross-vendor. Translation from German website:

"PCGH asked Raja Koduri about Mantle and its "openess". He replied that AMD doesn't see Mantle as an open standard like OpenCL or OpenGL."
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1789339&postcount=18

 

[AdmiralPain]

Well,at least it supports more than Windows. If Mantle works as promised and gains developer support it will influence my purchasing decision.

 

[angular graphics]

And here is confirmation that Mantle is fully based about GCN arhitecture. It will be cross platform [more OS support], but not cross-vendor. Translation from German website:

"PCGH asked Raja Koduri about Mantle and its "openess". He replied that AMD doesn't see Mantle as an open standard like OpenCL or OpenGL."
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1789339&postcount=18

You didn't include the rest of it:

"He also tried to brush aside comparisons with Glide but then stated: If a competitor were to approach AMD to make their own backend and drivers for Mantle, AMD would not dismiss them right away."

So like I said it's the same kind of crap nvidia said about PhysX: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=83772721&postcount=5

‘We are committed to an open PhysX platform that encourages innovation and participation,’ and added that Nvidia would be ‘open to talking with any GPU vendor about support for their architecture.’

"Open" but not really open.

 

[bee]

And here is confirmation that Mantle is fully based about GCN arhitecture. It will be cross platform [more OS support], but not cross-vendor. Translation from German website:

"PCGH asked Raja Koduri about Mantle and its "openess". He replied that AMD doesn't see Mantle as an open standard like OpenCL or OpenGL."
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1789339&postcount=18

years and years of whining about proprietary systems and after all that they simply say, if you can't beat them, join them. funny shit

 

[DieH@rd]

You didn't include the rest of it:

"He also tried to brush aside comparisons with Glide but then stated: If a competitor were to approach AMD to make their own backend and drivers for Mantle, AMD would not dismiss them right away."

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[jaosobno]

And here is confirmation that Mantle is fully based about GCN arhitecture. It will be cross platform [more OS support], but not cross-vendor. Translation from German website:

"PCGH asked Raja Koduri about Mantle and its "openess". He replied that AMD doesn't see Mantle as an open standard like OpenCL or OpenGL."
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1789339&postcount=18

Well, it was too good to be true. Now nVidia will develop their own low level API, some devs, for a certain incentive (monetary incentive, of course) will offer AMD optimizations, others will offer nVidia optimizations (through their respective low level APIs), but most will say "fuck it" and stick with D3D.

Goddammit, it could have been beautiful.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

Well, it was too good to be true. Now nVidia will develop their own low level API, some devs, for a certain incentive (monetary incentive, of course) will offer AMD optimizations, others will offer nVidia optimizations (through their respective low level APIs), but most will say "fuck it" and stick with D3D.

Goddammit, it could have been beautiful.

There is a fourth option, support both. Its not like the 90's where there where half a dozen GPU makers, now there are just two. This is a step above physx which is seen as a gimmick extra feature. The tangible benifits might just be too good to pass up.

 

[dr_rus]

There is very easy fix for this.

Use different paths for each GPU architecture.
Similar on how DX11 handless SM3, SM4 and SM5 class hardware.

In an open API made by a wide party of contributors - yes. Who's going to add a different path for NVIDIA's h/w into Mantle? AMD? Why? To make NV's h/w win again in benchmarks? Mantle is proprietary software. It will have only things that make AMD's h/w look good in it.

This also means that when GPU manufacturer creates a new architecture they have to create new path or partial path for a Mantle. (IE. AMD moving forward from GCN.)
Advantage is that every new feature AMD/Intel/Nvidia has in their card could be exposed, should be nice for Maxwell if it really has ARM cores.. etc.

No. This means that AMD will have to create a new driver for a new architecture and update API to version 2.0 to expose new features. Will AMD do this for Maxwell which may come out half a year ahead of AMD's comparable in features GPU? That's a rhetorical question.

 

[pottuvoi]

In an open API made by a wide party of contributors - yes. Who's going to add a different path for NVIDIA's h/w into Mantle? AMD? Why? To make NV's h/w win again in benchmarks? Mantle is proprietary software. It will have only things that make AMD's h/w look good in it.

No. This means that AMD will have to create a new driver for a new architecture and update API to version 2.0 to expose new features. Will AMD do this for Maxwell which may come out half a year ahead of AMD's comparable in features GPU? That's a rhetorical question.

Each manufacturer would have to make their own paths.
It is the only way to make it work with all hardware.

 

[Garteal]

Hardware.Info had an interview with Matt Skynner (corporate vice president and general manager)

I've translated some of the interesting replies of the interview.
The interview can be found here. (Dutch)

Some statements Skynner made:

Skynner: “Because Mantle is part of Frostbite 3, the technology can be used in a lot of games in the coming year.”

Skynner: “Mantle will make it easier for developers to port games to the PC.”

Skynner: “Efficiency, performance and making a bridge between PC and consoles are the reasons why we have developed Mantle.”

Interesting parts of the interview:

Hardware.Info: “Zooming in on compatibility. By using Mantle, developers will be programming directly on the GCN shaders. Is this no problem for your future? What if you have to step over to a new architecture for GPU’s? Will current Mantle games still work?

Skynner: “Good point. I can say the following about it: just like developing API’s, we also set goals when we develop GPU’s. They have to be a certain amount faster than the previous generation. While I can’t talk about the future generations, you can imagine that compatibility with Mantle will be on the requirements list.”

Hardware.Info: “And then about its speed. Battlefield 4 will be released in October as a DirectX game. We will be getting an update in December which will allow us to run the game with Mantle. What kind of difference in performance can we expect?”

Skynner: “I can’t say anything about that yet. Don’t forget that Battlefield 4 is still in its Beta phase and the same applies to Mantle. We have Beta game code on Beta API code. This is not the stage where we can make statements about performance, whether we want it or not.”

Hardware.Info: “Can you talk about it globally at least? Are we talking about percent, tens of percents or even more than that?”

Skynner: “Let me say this: we won’t develop a completely new API just to get a 3 or 4 percent gain in performance. The performance gain will be significant.”

 

[KKRT00]

I'm wondering, what will happen to applications like FRAPS, MSI Afterburner or Dxtory when You switch to Mantle API in-game. They clearly are using Directx, so will Mantle handle this by forwarding completely rendered frame from Mantle framebuffer to Directx framebuffer to make such application still compatibile or we will have to use Mantle enabled apps?

 

[DieH@rd]

Hardware.Info had an interview with Matt Skynner (corporate vice president and general manager)

I've translated some of the interesting replies of the interview.
The interview can be found here. (Dutch)

Thanks for the translation! All news are great.

 

[sono]

In principle this sounds absolutely brilliant