Support NeoGAF

[Erasus]

Jeez this has nothing to do with developers having dev kits, it is about how mature their development environment is. It is not lagging behind, Sony's is just maturing a bit faster. Semantics, I know.

:lol

You cannot be serious. If one is ahead then the other is behind.

Wrong analogy. This implies Microsoft and Sony are in a race to a finish line when it comes to software development which they are not. Their respective engineers have been given a task to create a good development environment for their respective consoles, these things have no finish line, they continue to evolve as years go by.

RIGHT NOW it seems as though Sonys tools are more mature. Something that was not excpected

You simply failed to understand.

http://compnetworking.about.com/od/speedtests/a/network_latency.htm

 

[Erasus]

Sorry for DP

 

[Binabik15]

Avalanche doesn't want to upset MS it seems. It's damn criminal that MS should be lagging so far behind in the Dev kits. This is worse than Nintendo because they at least had final dev kits out weeks before E3 last year.

Let's see how diplomatic they are once all the sales are in.

This might be why that one guy was cursing so heavily on twitter and wishing MS to die in a fire. The pic is one of the (inde?) devs reaction thread.


As of now, I'd at least be open if someone told me that water is dry and the sky is green. You never know in this crazy world we now live in.

PS: In the end, the difference will be "a wash" because one dev said so in a Durango rumour thread... .

 

[Tripolygon]

:lol

You cannot be serious. If one is ahead then the other is behind.



RIGHT NOW it seems as though Sonys tools are more mature. Something that was not excpected

Can you tell me exactly what it is ahead in? I'm sure you can't and I can't, it just words that could have been taken out of context by the interviewer.

Article title while misleading also says

PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One on paper – but Microsoft will catch up, says Avalanche Studios

for all we know, they might have already caught up to Sony mind you Sony's tools are continually evolving as well hence "It is not lagging behind, Sony's is just maturing a bit faster" but my contention is that each company have their timetable and goals to which they work at.

 

[jaosobno]

So PS4 is more powerful, but when Xbox One and Cloud are combined, they will perform better than PS4?

Ok, but in that case (and I do hate to burst some people's bubble), remember that little thing called Gaikai that Sony paid $380 million? As it turns out, that's a Cloud service too and in all likelihood, it's also capable of co-processing!

Well, gosh darn it, that pesky Sony!

Spoiler

none of those cloud services will matter when it comes to system performance. you can't just download ROP's, TMU's or memory bandwidth

 

[Erasus]

This might be why that one guy was cursing so heavily on twitter and wishing MS to die in a fire. The pic is one of the (inde?) devs reaction thread.


As of now, I'd at least be open if someone told me that water is dry and the sky is green. You never know in this crazy world we now live in.

PS: In the end, the difference will be "a wash" because one dev said so in a Durango rumour thread... .

Its hard to tell. Comming gen will be interesting. This gen we had
360
Easy dev tools
Better GPU
Easier architechture
HDD not included (problem for some games as we have seen)

PS3
Slow dev tools/devs making their own
Better CPU
Harder to code for
Blu-Ray
Included HDD

Comming gen they have the same CPU and same ammount of RAM, PS4 just has flat-out faster RAM and a higher specced GPU + compute
Both have audio/video engines.

for all we know, they might have already caught up to Sony mind you Sony's tools are continually evolving as well hence "It is not lagging behind, Sony's is just maturing a bit faster"

I see your point yes. Just like PS3s tools caught up in the end.

Its just weird how the software giant that is MS is right now, behind on tools.

 

[Erasus]

Dammit!

 

[prwxv3]

The 'cloud' claims just confirmed what I'd felt for ages. The secret sauce power was was always vapour.

This. I think the "secret sauce" was this cloud processing bullshit from the start.

 

[v1oz]

Also the whole point about any remote processing done on the cloud is that it won't be updating at 30 or 60fps reliably. It'll be applied to things you can either interpolate locally to keep things smooth, or that can afford to be updated periodically or be slightly out of date (e.g. maybe stuff happening far away).

These concepts are not fancy or new, per my last post. Authoritative dedicated multiplayer hosts already 'do this' and were doing it long before total game streaming started to be solved as a problem.

The idea is that in the near future all computing takes place in the cloud without exception. With the Xbone Microsoft is specifically going after Google and Apple who all have big Cloud ambitions. Google already sells computers that only work in the cloud.

At the conference Microsoft specifically said they would be using the Cloud to offload heavy computational tasks like rendering, lighting etc. And the Wired article with the Xbox engineers specifically talks about using the Cloud for "fundamental game mechanics like physics engines" & "collision-detection systems". The potential is limitless; physics and ai can be handled on one server whilst rendering duties are taken care off by another in a different location. This is what distributed computing is all about.

And if you are going to the use the cloud as your off-site render farm, you have no option but to process data at full frame 60 fps - its just not the type of data that can be interpolated or updated sporadically without causing issues in twitch action shooters.

The reason why I said total game streaming is trivial in comparison, is because it doesn't really take advantage of distributed computing and you can get by with lower bandwidth requirements.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one

 

[vio]

The idea is that in the near future all computing takes place in the cloud without exception. With the Xbone Microsoft is specifically going after Google and Apple who all have big Cloud ambitions. Google already sells computers that only work in the cloud.

At the conference Microsoft specifically said they would be using the Cloud to offload heavy computational tasks like rendering, lighting etc. And the Wired article with the Xbox engineers specifically talks about using the Cloud for "fundamental game mechanics like physics engines" & "collision-detection systems". The potential is limitless; physics and ai can be handled on one server whilst rendering duties are taken care off by another in a different location. This is what distributed computing is all about.

And if you are going to the use the cloud as your off-site render farm, you have no option but to process data at full frame 60 fps - its just not the type of data that can be interpolated or updated sporadically without causing issues in twitch action shooters.

The reason why I said total game streaming is trivial in comparison, is because it doesn't really take advantage of distributed computing and you can get by with lower bandwidth requirements.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one

That does sounds amazing, and revolutionary. But i don`t believe it until i see it.

 

[Erasus]

Google already sells computers that only work in the cloud.

Chromebooks work offline. You can still play music, movies and edit documents
http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-activate-google-docs-offline-on-your-chromebook

 

[phosphor112]

Just for those who seem lost (seems like a lot of people) the "catching up" that MS is going to do is about the development environment, not the power itself...

 

[gofreak]

And if you are going to the use the cloud as your off-site render farm, you have no option but to process data at full frame 60 fps - its just not the type of data that can be interpolated or updated sporadically without causing issues in twitch action shooters.

Not true, most MP games, for example, that use dedicated servers will run the simulation on the server, but interpolate and predict certain movements to keep things smooth on the client side. And that's in FPS games, the definition of twitch action.

Also, MS themselves said the idea would be that things that updated periodically and that were of less user focus could go off to be processed remotely, while things that updated frame-to-frame would have to happen locally. A 30fps game has 30ms per frame to work with. You are not going to ping out to a server and get a response on some intensive calculation within a 30ms period of computation. Nevermind 60fps.

The reason why I said total game streaming is trivial in comparison, is because it doesn't really take advantage of distributed computing and you can get by with lower bandwidth requirements.

Not true. We have had authoritative MP servers running physics and game simulation for agggeees, long before substantial broadband was even available. The size of the data pinging back from the server is not that huge, for game object updates etc.

Full game streaming needs at least 2 or 3 Mb/s. An uncompressed GameObject update might be...what... 32 bytes?

Compare your bandwidth usage while playing an hour of a hosted MP game on an authoritative server (i.e. one doing game logic and physics processing) to your bandwidth usage playing an hour of a streaming game. One will consume a lot more than the other.

 

[Binabik15]

Its hard to tell. Comming gen will be interesting. This gen we had
360
Easy dev tools
Better GPU
Easier architechture
HDD not included (problem for some games as we have seen)

PS3
Slow dev tools/devs making their own
Better CPU
Harder to code for
Blu-Ray
Included HDD

Comming gen they have the same CPU and same ammount of RAM, PS4 just has flat-out faster RAM and a higher specced GPU + compute
Both have audio/video engines.

I don't see sauce and Oregano on your list, therefore you're not showing the whole picture!

Nah. The post scriptum was making fun of insiders downplaying PS4/uptalking Durango based on a lack of understanding/bribes/fanboy loyalism or whatever.

The same people who claimed performance would be a wash said that PS4 wasn't inspiring developer confidence and that devs loved Durango and how easy it is to work with. Even that many devs didn't even have PS4 kits because Sony was so far behind.

I guess once it's all out someone will do a compilation for the more famous "insiders"/journalists (*cough* aegis *cough*) and their unbiased rumours.