exmachina64
Banned
If it's being published by a large publisher, it's never about what you want.
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Bethesda responds to Prey 2 cancellation
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
If it's being published by a large publisher, it's never about what you want.
They can't.
I wish I could source it but I remember reading that HH would sue if Bethesda attempted to use anything related to their work on Prey 2.
They were withholding payment for reaching milestones, at the same time offering a loan with burdensome terms. This is very clearly them pushing the developer to sell out, not that they were unhappy with the game. They had previously offered to buy HH straight, but that offer was rejected. These actions are transparent.
So really Bethesda wanted to buy Human Head and they rejected, so Bethesda cancelled their game and sent them sailing? If the company needed financials to survive even independently, why didn't they take the offer? Maybe they didn't expect Prey 2 to be cancelled as it was almost done?
Messofanego
Banned
Yup, not even surprised they want to be as far away from Prey's identity which is why they should have let Arkane market it as a SS type game rather than have to tie it with a controversial history.
Both parties were a bit concerned about the confusion that brand shift would cause, particularly if Arkane's title was as complete a departure from the original as they had described. There wasn't a focus on Native American identity and mythology, no gravity-shifting puzzles — "we don't have vagina doors," Hines joked. Ultimately, Arkane was told not to shoehorn in aspects of Prey or its canceled sequel, market confusion be damned.
Yeah, they are definitely better off changing the title. It's just going to carry an endless cycle of confusion. If they are purposely trying to distance themselves from every aspect that was Prey, calling the thing Prey is the worst thing they could do.
Well they did mention that there were a ton of references to the original game and that Tommy was supposed to show up at some point. So it was more like a spinoff initially but then started to tie more heavily into the original the further you got into the narrative. Also the main character of Prey 2 was tied to the opening event of Prey 1, with the plane crash.
There hasn't been a detailed interview asking why Human Head didn't cave but it could have been that as you mentioned, they were close to finishing so they thought Zenimax would pony up. Or it could have just been ego in that they didn't want to sell out.
I can't comment specifically on the Bethesda issue as I'm not privy to any details, but as a 21 year veteran of games development I can tell you that the described scenario and behaviour actually is commonplace.
triplestation
Member
IT JUST DOESN'T WORKS
funkystudent
Member
Wait.... Obsidian worked on Prey 2 for a while post Human Head?
Dang. That could have been cool.
Dang. That could have been cool.
KimonoNoNo
Member
I'm not going to punish Arkane for actions of their parent company, of which they were most probably victims of themselves.
Forsaken82
Member
Oh, so you must have been a developer on the game?
What else can you tell us about the "20 minute board meeting" regarding this game you clearly played to completion before it ever got the opportunity to release?
I assume you played it prior to it disappearing off the face of the earth before ultimately being cancelled?
As a fan of what I actually saw of the game, I legit want to know how good this game was going to be and you clearly seem to be the only person that can answer this.
Just go ask Obsidian what happens when a publisher cancels an ongoing project on an independent studio.
IIRC the initial buyout proposal was before the project got started. Bethesda then greenlights Prey 2 and HH thinks all is cool, until Bethesda pulls the rug out under them.
It is ALL too commonplace.
Madison Paige
Member
Well, this is shitty. Even though there are several great development studios under Bethesda's name that I don't want to suffer, I'm still taking a stance, right now, that I will no longer purchase games with Bethesda's name on it, unless they are either on sale for $15 or less, or I'm able to get them for free through a giveaway or something. I understand that this is "how business works", but even so, I don't want to support business continuing to function this way. This is disgusting and shameful.
As the people who buy these games, we need to start standing up and telling greedy publishers that their actions are abhorrent and won't be supported. I know that, as one person, I don't really make a difference, but perhaps if we could get people to unite and loudly proclaim that this isn't okay, I bet we could see some change. Maybe we'd see more new ideas in the mix as well. It's win-win.
As the people who buy these games, we need to start standing up and telling greedy publishers that their actions are abhorrent and won't be supported. I know that, as one person, I don't really make a difference, but perhaps if we could get people to unite and loudly proclaim that this isn't okay, I bet we could see some change. Maybe we'd see more new ideas in the mix as well. It's win-win.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
It was a great concept and awesome setting and hell, I still think it was a lot better than what we end up seeing in new Prey. I just hope that something cool will eventually come out of this idea. Bethesda just need to find the right devs to make it happen.
You're either a fanboy blinded by twinkling lights, or entirely unable or unwilling to actually read the source material. And the evidence. And the precedence.
Either way I envy the little world you've made in your own special bubble; I'd like to be there, it sounds like a much less shittier world than the one the rest of us share.
Vince DiCola
Member
This really sucks, I genuinely love Hunted. It's a bit rough around the edges but it's a really cool gears style Co op fantasy action game. And the fact we will never get a sequel sucks ass. Dammit Bethesda
CharlesSurge
Member
Thanks to everyone for keeping the facts about Bethesda alive.
That's not what happened.
Bethesda offered to buy in before Prey 2, HH rejected but they started working on Prey 2.
Bethesda then tried to bankrupt HH via milestone abuse, withholding payments etc and then tried to buy them off for cheap. HH rejected that because like before it would have meant losing their independence, but unlike before they now knew that they would be losing their independence to scummy publishers.
They may have had financial problems but atleast HH still exists as an independent studio even today. They are small time and Prey 2 would have made them big shots but such is the way events turn the tide of life.
SoundofSilence
Member
To add to this, it's important to remember why Human Head exists in the first place. After Activision acquired Raven in 1997, many of the most senior staff refused to go along with the acquisition and left to form Human Head. They have been independent ever since so being acquired again was never really part of their plans, financial considerations or not.
The Lone Courier
Member
Damn shame. The concept sounded better than what the new Prey looks like.
Dunno about that. If they can pull off a spiritual sequel to System Shock, that's pretty fucking great on it's own.
It looks like a poor clone of system shock with more expensive production. Personally I prefer to wait for the real sequel.
Maybe, strikes me as a bit early to say either way when almost nothing has been shown.
Herr Starr
Member
Yeah, seriously. I've known about Bethesda's shitty business practices for a while, and make a point of telling as many people as possible about them. It's a shame to see the company being so highly loved when they're doing more deliberate damage to good developers than any other AAA publisher.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Surprised to see people who didn't know about this or are actively defending Bethesda.
"Shit happens".
Sure, "the marriage went bad". If by marriage gone bad you mean that you were the abusing husband, and you finally killed your third or fourth wife's love, taking the best years of her life, and leaving her scarred for life, just so she doesn't do anything unless it's under your "care".
Doubt Human Head will ever be able to make AAA games again after Bethesda, not to mention I can't remember if people lost their jobs over this, potentially ruining lives. You might as well have being silent on this, Hines. It just makes you and your company look like asses.
"Shit happens".
Sure, "the marriage went bad". If by marriage gone bad you mean that you were the abusing husband, and you finally killed your third or fourth wife's love, taking the best years of her life, and leaving her scarred for life, just so she doesn't do anything unless it's under your "care".
Doubt Human Head will ever be able to make AAA games again after Bethesda, not to mention I can't remember if people lost their jobs over this, potentially ruining lives. You might as well have being silent on this, Hines. It just makes you and your company look like asses.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Why would they try to buy them out?
Secret Fawful
Member
Wow. This practice is disgusting, and it's insane that they can get away with it. How can it be legal to force a dev team to work for you without paying them based on a system with absolutely no accountability for the publisher?
SoundofSilence
Member
Same reason any studio gets bought: control.
I imagine a lot developer do not have the resources to fight a drawn out legal battle against publishers.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
... but they were worthless incapable sods who could not deliver... why hiring them
? Right?So we have proof that on paper that is precisely what they said?
if not then how did we arrive at this? Just curious
True. I always wondered if they pulled this with Id though. You'd think they'd be able to fight it.
Chubzdoomer
Banned
I'm still incredibly pissed off that the Prey 2 we saw at E3 2011 was canceled. Game looked so promising... :-(
Herr Starr
Member
It doesn't really matter all that much whether it's legal or not. At the moment Bethesda stops paying a developer, the ticking clock starts. That developer will typically not have the time to pursue the matter through the courts because they'd go bankrupt first. They're essentially given a choice between:
1) See the company they've created fall apart permanently.
2) Sell the company to Bethesda.
I would assume the sales contract they are eventually forced to sign includes some kind of clause that prevents them from taking the case to court.
Yeah, it really is that shitty.
Lots of bad folks at Zenimax and Bethesda.
http://3wirel.lostsig.com/2016/08/06/the-long-story-of-prey-2s-development-the-darkside-of-bethesda/
http://3wirel.lostsig.com/2016/08/06/the-long-story-of-prey-2s-development-the-darkside-of-bethesda/
Just a stray thought, but I wonder if game devs have ever thought about unionizing.
Outrageous! Surely, you will next advocate for the government owning all land and the means of production, Marx? /s
Lots of bad folks at Zenimax and Bethesda.
http://3wirel.lostsig.com/2016/08/06/the-long-story-of-prey-2s-development-the-darkside-of-bethesda/
Its nuts how my piece got linked on Gaf
! Its such a shame that the article covered such a toxic situation .Great article! Even though Pete Hines superficially dismissed it as "nonsense," the fact that both current and former HH staffers retweeted it speaks volumes. Norm Nazaroff (Proletariat), Brian Karis (Epic), Ryan Smith (HH), Shane Newton (HH), Nathan Cheever (Hangar 13), Steven Dunn (HH).Its nuts how my piece got linked on Gaf
Hines admission to Gamespot that he wants Human Head to do well and the faux-empathetic touch of calling to check on Chris Rhinehart's well-being is manipulative posturing and down-right cruel. In an earlier rebuttal to IGN's milestone story, he said similar things and implied that co-founders like Chris Rhinehart felt differently about the state of the game than those who contacted the press in the hopes of setting the story straight. I can assure you Chris Rhinehart thinks Prey 2 is and was an awesome game.
As an aside, while project lead on the first Prey, Chris took on the task of designing the portal system by himself and succeeded because he's a maverick talented programmer. On Prey 2, the co-founders (been together since the Hexen days) were still contributing to art, design, and programming. Their CEO, Paul MacArthur, was co-leading the tech with Brian Karis, James Sumwalt was in charge of art with Randy Redetzke and so on. Founders don't typically get their hands dirty with the day-to-day development duties.
Could you link to me Bethesdia's response to the article? I tried looking for it but couldn't find that anywhere.....
But thank YOU for all the information you shared on Gaf on the game! Learning more about the milestone goals was really great and I'm so happy my article touched both many gamers and even the developers on the proejct.
Lots of bad folks at Zenimax and Bethesda.
http://3wirel.lostsig.com/2016/08/06/the-long-story-of-prey-2s-development-the-darkside-of-bethesda/
Fantastic summary of the whole situation. I had actually forgotten most of this :\
I remember around the time of the delays/cancellation this all coming out and being shocked, only to then hear that it's Business As Usual in the games' industry. The only thing atypical about this situation was that Human Head survived.
Lots of bad folks at Zenimax and Bethesda.
http://3wirel.lostsig.com/2016/08/06/the-long-story-of-prey-2s-development-the-darkside-of-bethesda/
A new article on this situation? Nice.