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[Parakeetman]

FF11 and 14 has always given gender equality with armor designs.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF THE SUBLIGAR

best ever. I remember running around like that in 11 punching shit. Good times.

 

[Riposte]

It's only hypocrisy if you match up posts by a specific person being inconsistent.

Anyway, I don't think the design is too bad. Could be better with slightly fewer arbitrary pieces of metal.

FF11 and 14 has always given gender equality with armor designs.

This is less true more and more in the Yoshi-P era of FFXIV (subligar predates his lead). Girls are dressed like "girls", with short skirts and exposed waists conspicuously absent on males.

EDIT: Also that tumblr is dumb as tumblrs (with words) tend to be.

 

[plasmawave]

Indeed.

This design got a pass, and Fran is considered one of the sexiest FF characters:



It's not that different from Mevius main character's design. Cidney from FFXV got a lot of praise for her design, but she looks even more stupid if you consider that she works fixing cars and she's basically naked at the top, for no reason at all:

That's hardly naked.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I would defend the use of the design, just as I am with this, but I'd still call it a fucking awful design.

That is the problem. I personally do not defend the use of awful designs

 

[RecursiveFault]

What always weirds me out about these comments is the ones that talk about how "gay" it looks. Like, you look at and comment on Japanese character designs with some kind of regularity but haven't picked up on the differences between Western and Japanese notions of gay and straight masculinity?

In Japan all the skinny androgynous teen boys are considered the hyper-masculine ideal of being bad ass and strictly heteronormative bros. Like, Vaan from Final Fantasy XII is basically the Japanese equivalent of the Gears of War dudes.

Bishonen is a whole niche in Japan. I'm no expert on it, but it's a longstanding thing. Wikipedia: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishōnen

 

[Doctor Decimate]

So the argument is that because some other thing is shitty, then this thing needs to be allowed to be shitty, too? How the fuck does that make any sense?

 

[Abriael]

FF11 and 14 has always given gender equality with armor designs.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF THE SUBLIGAR

Hey, I think I recognize that dude

I'm kind of partial towards this one tho..

 

[Pennywise83]

She has? Ever thread since her reveal has had people running in to complain about it, all the while completely ignoring Gladiolus' redesign. And the whole "she's a mechanic and wouldn't dress like that" argument doesn't hold up in a world where the main characters are fighting armored enemies while wearing designer clothing.

At least as long as I read, yes. Or at least no one complained as badly as in the Mevius case. Btw, Gladiolus' design is not bad or out of place: he's just a dude with no t-shirts and jacket on it; given the environment, he doesn't seem out of place. Also, I find less annoying to see dudes fighting with normal clothes, just because it's a fantasy setting, and characters have to be differentiated somehow -otherwise you would have all characters in armors or military suits, which is not interesting at all. On the other hand, if you decide to dress a mechanic like that, you really want to sexualize the character itself.

 

[Wulfram]

It's not necessarily hypocrisy to think a design looks stupid on a man but wouldn't on a woman. Men and Women do have different fashions.

Though this sort of design would look silly on anyone, I think.

 

[Bold One]

Never have I rolled my eyes so hard, A bad design is a bad design historical pandering not-withstanding. I had never seen that seen design before but I wish I hadn't clicked on this thread because upon seeing those pics I threw up in my mouth instantly. The same reaction I have towards Ivy from Soul Calibre series, no one goes to battle wearing less than they would going to bed.

There is hypocrisy here, just not the one you'd think. And the false equivalence and intellectual dishonesty on display is egregious.

I would have more to say more but I can see where this thread heading.

 

[Dr. Buni]

It's not necessarily hypocrisy to think a design looks stupid on a man but wouldn't on a woman. Men and Women do have different fashions.

Though this sort of design would look silly on anyone, I think.

This thread is about bikini armors and yes, it is hypocrisy to defend awful fanservicey outfits for women and complain about fanservicey outfits for men. Want a good example? To this day, there are still people butthurt about Vaan's design, but at the same time, they are okay with Cindy's design. You are either okay with both or with none.

 

[SMOK3Y]

What always weirds me out about these comments is the ones that talk about how "gay" it looks. Like, you look at and comment on Japanese character designs with some kind of regularity but haven't picked up on the differences between Western and Japanese notions of gay and straight masculinity?

In Japan all the skinny androgynous teen boys are considered the hyper-masculine ideal of being bad ass and strictly heteronormative bros. Like, Vaan from Final Fantasy XII is basically the Japanese equivalent of the Gears of War dudes.

Wow really? No wonder I have trouble telling the difference between girls & guy's in the Japanese pics I see in here

 

[Angelus Errare]

My problem with the armor wasn't the fact that it was bikini armor, which btw, always looks stupid, my problem was the fact that the design itself just looks stupid. Besides the generic white anime-ish hair and face that's pretty much a slightly different version of Hope from FFXIII, it's just not very interesting or visually pleasing to look at armor wise. Some of the leg armor looks like it's literally floating in place and isn't connected. And what is the arthur talking about when she say "not looking cool and stoic but looking vulnerable," What do you call that expression and pose?

This can be attributed to 99.3% of female body armor in videogames to include the armor itself not making sense mechanically, with random parts floating and being held in place by magic and glue.

But as Brianna is pointing out and many people in this thread are proving, the reaction to the females wearing the same thing is completely different.

 

[Nightengale]

In Japan all the skinny androgynous teen boys are considered the hyper-masculine ideal of being bad ass and strictly heteronormative bros. Like, Vaan from Final Fantasy XII is basically the Japanese equivalent of the Gears of War dudes.

Eh, not really.

The difference is that in Japan, embracing bishounens ( pretty, effeminate looking guys) in their games isn't a turn-off, just as no one in the west minds the space marine baldies for their games.

 

[Parakeetman]

Never have I rolled my eyes so hard, A bad design is a bad design historical pandering not-withstanding. I had never seen that seen design before but I wish I hadn't clicked on this thread because upon seeing those pics I threw up in my mouth instantly. The same reaction I have towards Ivy from Soul Calibre series, no one goes to battle wearing less than they would going to bed.

There is hypocrisy here, just not the one you'd think.

I would have more to say more but I can see where this thread heading.

Voldo says hi.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

At least as long as I read, yes. Or at least no one complained as badly as in the Mevius case. Btw, Gladiolus' design is not bad or out of place: he's just a dude with no t-shirts and jacket on it; given the environment, he doesn't seem out of place. Also, I find less annoying to see dudes fighting with normal clothes, just because it's a fantasy setting, and characters have to be differentiated somehow -otherwise you would have all characters in armors or military suits, which is not interesting at all. On the other hand, if you decide to dress a mechanic like that, you really want to sexualize the character itself.

so wait, let me get this straight. You were saying she looks silly considering she's a mechanic and then conveniently gloss over the fact that there's guy fighting people with swords and guns while being half naked......I think we should all understand the the importance (or more precisely lack of) costumes have in the FFXV's world in relation to the character's job.

 

[SolidSnakex]

At least as long as I read, yes. Or at least no one complained as badly as in the Mevius case. Btw, Gladiolus' design is not bad or out of place: he's just a dude with no t-shirts and jacket on it; given the environment, he doesn't seem out of place. Also, I find less annoying to see dudes fighting with normal clothes, just because it's a fantasy setting, and characters have to be differentiated somehow -otherwise you would have all characters in armors or military suits, which is not interesting at all. On the other hand, if you decide to dress a mechanic like that, you really want to sexualize the character itself.

Whether or not you like his design isn't the point, it's simply obvious what Square's goal was when his design went from this

To this

And they armor could be differentiated just by having a a different armor design. The armor design of the soldiers from Niflheim have a specific look, so they could've done the same with the main characters if they wanted to.

 

[Arion]

We see knee jerk reactions for when female characters wear bikini armor or have bad design, so I don't see why those same kind of reactions are bad here. You can't expect male gamers to be into sexy male characters any more than you can expect female gamers to be into sexy female characters.

As for the design it self I think it looks silly but are women really into that kinda feminine vulnerable looking guys.

 

[strafer]

I dont care.

I run around naked anyways.

 

[Parakeetman]

Hey, I think I recognize that dude

I'm kind of partial towards this one tho..

The gladiator set is much nicer looking.

The original one was more a throwback to the popularity the standard subligar set got in FF11.

Good times.

 

[Corpekata]

Seem to be a few people thinking Brianna Wu wrote that, she just linked to it.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

The thing is, we’re waaaaay past the “badly designed sexy female armor” quota, so there’s lots of “badly designed sexy male armor” quota to meet.

That's a really dumb thing to say

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Two wrongs don't make a right, both are problematic.

That said, I don't think that most people complaining about this armor have a problem with the fact that it's skimpy. They probably wouldn't bat an eyelid if it was a bare-chested Rambo type character or some savage in a loincloth. Instead, I think people are bothered by the clearly effeminate design. I don't think I'd be far off the mark to suggest that most people here are straight males, so it's the designation of "sexy" that is in question.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Hey, I think I recognize that dude

I'm kind of partial towards this one tho..

The Coliseum armor set was popular enough that they released a crafted dyable version of it.

I've seen both male and female characters wearing this set, it's always funny to see a random huge guy running by wearing this set. It's naturally the most amusing when seen on a Roegadyn male.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This can be attributed to 99.3% of female body armor in videogames to include the armor itself not making sense mechanically, with random parts floating and being held in place by magic and glue.

But as Brianna is pointing out and many people in this thread are proving, the reaction to the females wearing the same thing is completely different.

Really? How did you miss the first part of my post?

My problem with the armor wasn't the fact that it was bikini armor, which btw, always looks stupid,

I don't defend bikini armor or bad character design. Especially not ones with floaty pieces of armor not held in place by anything.

 

[blu]

Do you agree the comments are silly, GAF? Or that the blog arguments are silly?

The argument that we have some 'ridiculous-design male-sexy-armor quota to meet' is out-of-this-world bad. You don't restore any kind of balance by introducing more bad designs to an industry that is already choke-full of them. If anything, we're getting further away from getting rid of bad designs.

 

[Tunahead]

Eh, not really.

The difference is that in Japan, embracing bishounens ( pretty, effeminate looking guys) in their games isn't a turn-off, just as no one in the west minds the space marine baldies for their games.

Well it's not a strictly 1:1 equivalency where you can transpose the exact Western views of Big Bald Spacemarines™ onto Japanese views of ~*kawaii bishies*~, but they are broadly inverted views because the reason they don't have big butch dudes in Japanese games so much is because that's considered a gay aesthetic over there.

 

[Corpekata]

I think they are not being that serious with the quota thing folks.

 

[elyetis]

Hey, I think I recognize that dude

I'm kind of partial towards this one tho..

Definitly the reason why everyone wanted Glamour so badly.

 

[fertygo]

So the hypocrisy is if I'm despise this and liking Cidney design? lmao

 

[Aske]

This thread is about bikini armors and yes, it is hypocrisy to defend awful fanservicey outfits for women and complain about fanservicey outfits for men. Want a good example? To this day, there are still people butthurt about Vaan's design, but at the same time, they are okay with Cindy's design. You are either okay with both or with none.

Nonsense. Some people aren't making grand political statements about the gaming industry. They're just dudes who love tits and hate playing characters they consider effeminate.

Don't confuse the opinions expressing personal taste with the people arguing that nipple piercings constitute body armour on female characters, but that the delicate features of Japanese guys who manscape are an affront to Jesus.

 

[pants]

I'll stick by my "The fuck is he wearing" thanks

 

[Fantastapotamus]

This thread is about bikini armors and yes, it is hypocrisy to defend awful fanservicey outfits for women and complain about fanservicey outfits for men. Want a good example? To this day, there are still people butthurt about Vaan's design, but at the same time, they are okay with Cindy's design. You are either okay with both or with none.

How about this: Design two outfits for your character(s). One can be the dumb chainmail bikini thing for women or men and the other one is something a somewhat normal human being would recognize as "clothing".
Hell, SE is probably going to sell costumes anyway so might as well throw in a "not dumb (but still pretty dumb cause we are Square) clothing pre-order DLC"

 

[Bold One]

Voldo says hi.

Not sure how this invalidates my argument but, Hi Voldo!

 

[docbon]

Whether or not you like his design isn't the point, it's simply obvious what Square's goal was when his design went from this

To this

Lawd have mercy. You could smash atoms between those abs.

 

[Wulfram]

This thread is about bikini armors and yes, it is hypocrisy to defend awful fanservicey outfits for women and complain about fanservicey outfits for men. Want a good example? To this day, there are still people butthurt about Vaan's design, but at the same time, they are okay with Cindy's design. You are either okay with both or with none.

Depends on what your position is.
If your complaint is lack of practicality or over-sexualisation then, yes, you're at risk of hypocrisy. If you think a design just looks bad, then I don't think that's hypocrisy unless it's masking a complaint about over-sexualisation. Which it may often be, but not always.

Vaan's design looks OK to me, though the heavy boots seem a bit silly unless the main threat he faces is things that bite ankles

edit: If you stick a man in a bikini they look stupid. If you stick a man in a pair of swimming trunks, they look fine. In the appropriate context, anyway.

 

[Parakeetman]

Lawd have mercy. You could smash atoms between those abs.

 

[Lucumo]

So are all bikini armor. Looking at you TERA.

Definitely agree. Women's armor should look like this.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

How about this: Design two outfits for your character(s). One can be the dumb chainmail bikini thing for women or men and the other one is something a somewhat normal human being would recognize as "clothing".
Hell, SE is probably going to sell costumes anyway so might as well throw in a "not dumb (but still pretty dumb cause we are Square) clothing pre-order DLC"

Come to think of it, wasn't one of the optional costumes for Serah in FFXIII-2 a bikini you had to buy as DLC? I wonder if they sold a lot of those. Squenix is slowly coming around to learning how to make money I guess.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Really? How did you miss the first part of my post?

Read my post again I wasn't talking specifically about your views. I was merely stating that the bold in your sentence is something that isn't even specific to this particular character model. As for your statement of not liking bikini armor, yes in the rare thread in which it's the guy on display these kind of statements are often echoed but really only serve to detract from the underlying issue Brianna is speaking on.

Mechanical nonsensical designs go hand in hand with almost all female bikini body armor in videogaming. I just find it pointless to point out the lack of mechanical design in a thread about the hypocrisy and double standard (Brianna even makes this point herself). The designs themselves are largely inconsequential to the entire argument she's presenting, again she makes a point of this. Simply because even if there was such thing as a "well designed" bikini armor at the end of the day the main issue will remain...the bikini armor itself and how utterly perverse it is in gaming for female characters.

This portion not aimed at you, but I do love the double standard in gaming. Female bikini armor people go through all kinds of mental decathlons to excuse it to include random and utterly pointless anecdotal evidence about how they know some random female who enjoys it, there for it's okay regardless of how shit the design is. Yet the minute there's a male character rocking this shit, everyone's closet homophobia among other issues comes busting out and they suddenly start caring about the "design".

 

[lazygecko]

Skimpy armor design just looks freakin dumb most of the time. I don't even consider it "sexy". It's such a buzzkill if you're playing a female RPG character when you find some badass plate armor some guy is wearing, then decide to try it for yourself and suddenly there's token cleavage and exposed midriff.

 

[Acquiescence]

Ooh, I spy my own post there.

I stick by what I said, it's embarrassing character design in every facet. He looks like a total eejit.

 

[Parakeetman]

Depends on what your position is.
If your complaint is lack of practicality or over-sexualisation then, yes, you're at risk of hypocrisy. If you think a design just looks bad, then I don't think that's hypocrisy unless it's masking a complaint about over-sexualisation. Which it may often be, but not always.

Vaan's design looks OK to me, though the heavy boots seem a bit silly unless the main threat he faces is things that bite ankles

This was always a better design for Vaan.

The weird thing is the 2d (granted by a different artist / his appearance in a diff game) his original outfit does not look that bad in this design. Since the clothing has been adjusted a bit from the original designs.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Definitely agree. Women's armor should look like this.

The best part about this design is how the plate has separate breast holders (lol)...which I imagine would be very uncomfortable for women.

This is what it would/should look like

Just a single sheet that covers the entire chest, not this individual metal holder breast emphasiser...because I mean how else would we know it's a woman!?

 

[captainpat]

I have to say I didn't expect so much whining over a mobile game no one here is going to play.

 

[Abriael]

This portion not aimed at you, but I do love the double standard in gaming. Female bikini armor people go through all kinds of mental decathlons to excuse it to include random and utterly pointless anecdotal evidence about how they know some random female who enjoys it, there for it's okay regardless of how shit the design is. Yet the minute there's a male character rocking this shit, everyone's closet homophobia among other issues comes busting out and they suddenly start caring about the "design".

You're making the enormous mistake of generalizing, exactly like the misguided blog post you defend. "people" go through all kinds of... and "everyone's closet homophobia".

You just defeated your own argument. Not only you can't demonstrate in any shape or form that the combination of those views represent everyone, but not even a relevant majority.


But hey, let's not forget that we're talking about a blog post by someone who is perpetuating an atrocious misquote of something said by a colleague, effectively throwing him under the bus, in order to support an agenda.

 

[Parakeetman]

Skimpy armor design just looks freakin dumb most of the time. I don't even consider it "sexy". It's such a buzzkill if you're playing a female RPG character when you find some badass plate armor some guy is wearing, then decide to try it for yourself and suddenly there's token cleavage and exposed midriff.

Prime example from a currently released game (though these types of designs should surprise no one considering its done by Tony Taka and this is pretty much all the hack can do.)

They could have had a pretty nice female knight design for one of the protagonists, but the whole exposed breasts in the armor bit was just plain stupid.

 

[KDR_11k]

What's Shulk doing in Final Fantasy?

 

[Riposte]

What's Shulk doing in Final Fantasy?

Looks more like Nero (DMC4) to me.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You could post nearly any Soul Caliber female character design and I'm sure it wouldn't get the same comments. Sigh.

I love how this person has literally found proof that there's a double standard when it comes to sexualisation in games and people are still refuting it. It's like the whole "I'm not against gay people but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of playing as a gay character" argument.