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[BOMBA/rumour] XBone's new price cut for EU incoming? AmazonITA: X1+Kinect=€399

liquidtmd

Banned
Same problem WiiU threads have, the price is never low enough

Yeah, pretty much. "Nice but I'm not biting until its $50 less than whats just been announced'.

*Goes $50 lower*

"Nice but I'm not biting until its $50 less than whats just been announced'.

*Goes $50 lower*

"OMG BOMBA, WHO'D BUY ONE NOW ITS TOO CHEAP / THERES NO VALUE / COMPANY KNOW ITS DEAD*
 

Guerrilla

Member
I mean it's not hard, I wanted to play Dead Rising 3 really badly when it came out but not enough to spend a ton of money on a console and I really really hoped it'd be ported eventually, now it's coming to the computer and I get a better looking, better performing game at a cheaper price since I paid a lot more money for pc components, than that expensive console would have cost me.

Of course not everyone is me and of course not everyone is you. To some people buying a reasonably priced console to play games early, and play games that won't come to pc, and play games on the big screen, and don't want to be bothered with driver/game problems, and don't have a good anough pc, and want to have digital surround sound with an optical in only receiver...... makes sense, to others it makes more sense to just wait and hope for the chance that some more games will come much later to pc and at this point we can safely say some of the exclusives that hit XB1 might come some years down the line.

fixed that for ya...
 
fixed that for ya...
You're basically adding nothing to his post.

He's obviously taking about people who already own gaming PCs, and if you do own a gaming PC then there might not be a whole load of reasons to buy an Xbox One if they continue porting the games over.
 

Guerrilla

Member
You're basically adding nothing to his post.

He's obviously taking about people who already own gaming PCs, and if you do own a gaming PC then there might not be a whole load of reasons to buy an Xbox One if they continue porting the games over.

yeah keep on reading, most changes are in the second paragraph and no he obviously isn't talking specifically about people who have a beast gaming pc, if you read his earlier posts in this thread he bassically means everyone. I bet the average pc won't play ryse or dr3 better than the xb1...

Very annoying. Couldn't you just respond to his points without butchering his original post? There's no way I'm going to bother to play spot-the-difference with yours, what a waste of time.

That's why I put all the changes i made in italic letters. but ok will bold them to make even more obvious
 
If rumors of Sony introducing a 1TB PS4 are true, I wonder whether they'll cut the price of the 500GB model.

Would be interesting if there was a mini-price war this Xmas.
 

mike4001_

Member
If rumors of Sony introducing a 1TB PS4 are true, I wonder whether they'll cut the price of the 500GB model.

Would be interesting if there was a mini-price war this Xmas.

Well the thing is an 1 TB HDD costs about 20 € more than the 500 GB model. And thats in End-user prices ...
 

le.phat

Member
Posts like these are so shitty.

So what is the problem? Or is it because its not Sony so you think they are doomed? 360 did well enough in Europe.

Yeah? well here in Holland the bone has burned an incredible amount of goodwill. I work in the industry, and the sentiment is at an all time low. The TV-centered functionality that doesn't work in Europe is one of the focus points as to why people are shunning the xbox. Not just the price, but the sentiment that Europe is an afterthought is probably the biggest issue.
 

EGM1966

Member
There were already many remarks in this thread stating "It's not the price."

There are (in my theory) four valid discriminators, which can make you buy either a PS4 or a XB1 (i.e. discriminators, which rate the 'value' of the consoles):

Subjective
-> Exclusives (past,present,future)
-> General Preference of the MS or Sony ecosystem (controller, Live-PSN, etc.)

Objective:
-> Price
-> Performance


Currently neither console has a real edge on the subjective discriminators. Being subjective they are valued on a person by person scale.
Price would be the same after the pricecut (with Kinect i.e.), so there is objective parity.
Performance will always be in favor of the PS4, no cloud can change that.

So to answer your question:
A: You will get negative remarks about the XB1's pricing from people as long as they value the number of exclusives + the performance disparity + ecosystem higher than the price difference. The subjective value of the Sony and MS ecosystems will rise, the longer they use it (fanboyism on both sides).
B: Bringing out exclusives also on the PC devalues them on XB1, because they are less exclusive.

C: Well, currently there might be a strategic shift in Microsoft - new CEO and all. If they consider the XB1 failed and let it die asap, they might reconsider the PC platform as their main platform and start pushing Windows > 8 to combat the rise of steam, which will over a long time period make people less dependent on Windows.

Not bad although I think there's a fifth vital differentiator currently which is:

  • which console has the better version of multi-platform games

A key advantage the 360 had that I feel is often overlooked is that for around 18 months or more the general perception was that the 360 had better versions of big multi-platform games (and it did of course). This really helped the console alongside price consideration (it also contributes in a tangible way to the average consumer's view on which console is better/more powerful). Even when most games achieved parity and the big exclusives on PS3 showed it was at least as powerful all it took was for the occasional big game - RDR or Skyrim say - to run a bit better on 360 to re-enforce this idea to general public.

This gen so far that advantage has squarely been with PS4 this time around. Three big franchises - CoD, AC and BF - all launched with what were perceived by most to be superior versions. I doubt the average joe knows why (i.e. is it resolution or what) they just pick up from media and comments the PS4 versions are "better". Only Ryse has arguably looked on a level with Sony exclusives and that had frame rate issues and is now not even exclusive to the XB1.

That factor is key IMHO as given the market knows most games are going to be on PS4 or XB1 (because lets face it exclusives make up the minority of Playstation/Xbox library) the obvious easy differentiator is what console people think will have the better versions of games.

The exclusives are subjective as you note and they will draw key fans but if you're not swayed by either Halo or Uncharted then the obvious differentiator from a games perspective is better versions.

This perception is pretty entrenched already and will continue to devalue Xbox (relative to price) more than PS4 (relative to price).

After all even the biggest exclusives actually only appeal to a minority of the hoped for install base.

To my surprise Sony seems to have picked up on the key market trends better than MS this time around:

  • better version of multi-platform games
  • competitive price point
  • solid exclusives in a number of genres
  • solid online / chat

I do feel it wasn't so much that certain people at MS didn't understand this (going by 360 they clearly did) as that miss-reading Kinect interest and compromising hardware design for media/TV muddied the waters during the conception of XB1.

The net net is that in Europe you have a market that (outside UK) already had a preference for Playstation brand vs Xbox (clearly shown with PS3/360) that is now being offered two new models from each - and the preferred brand started with a price advantage and a "place for better versions of big multi-platform games" advantage.

It's little wonder the subjective preference elements like exclusives matter so little right now when they're only a fraction of the value proposition for each console. Ryse, Killzone, Dead Rising 3, Knack, inFamous and TitanFall really don't matter much in terms of broad demand when you boil it down. They need to be there but unless one represented a huge Wii Sports like "must have" (and let's be honest none of them including TitanFall are remotely close to that kind of draw) then the exclusives look like a wash (with MS further weakened as part of its exclusive library is only console exclusive reducing chances of the still fairly active PC market in Europe choosing Xbox over PS4 as a complimentary console to their PCs) leaving it all down to brand preference, price point and the better version/more powerful differentiators (all of which favoured PS4 from the start in Europe).

It's little wonder PS4 is racing ahead in Europe and it's also little wonder MS is struggling to change the trend as they have few levers to use quickly - bar price which of course may not be that compelling a lever anyway unless they really cut deep (because bundle sales and others make me feel the Xbox One really isn't that price elastic in Europe right now).
 

Bastardo

Member
Not bad although I think there's a fifth vital differentiator currently which is:
  • which console has the better version of multi-platform games
(...).

I completely agree with everything you wrote.
The Multiplat shooter crowd (CoD, BF) is very interested in the fact that they play the best version of a title (on a console). I also think it was one of the Wii Us biggest mistakes not to offer the best CoD version (between PS3/360/WiiU) after launch, even if it was only for the one year prior to the PS4 / XB1 launches. They could have scooped up the shooter crowd like that.
 
The device already became 'cheaper to purchase' by 100$ a few weeks ago. It didn't really do anything.

It's the console's image they have to improve. The negative stink around it that's still permeating the mindshare of Xbox one. Dropping the price a few bucks is not going to make an undesirable product suddenly desirable.

Well how do you improve me the image of an "undesirable product", they've done about all they can in the months since release. They're releasing in 26 new countries, what they need to do is get the console in people hands so they can say "actually, XB1 is pretty good", or at least, I think thats what the majority of people will say.

Im enjoying my XB1 a lot, despite the power difference I think its a good console and theres plenty to play and they're getting more great games this holiday and beyond.

Theres no negative way to spin a price drop, it can only be a good thing and lets face it its not like MS can't afford to suck it up

Also, having less power is fine if you're cheaper than the competition which they weren't, they were $100 more and then the same price, they needed to go lower
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The device already became 'cheaper to purchase' by 100$ a few weeks ago. It didn't really do anything.

It's the console's image they have to improve. The negative stink around it that's still permeating the mindshare of Xbox one. Dropping the price a few bucks is not going to make an undesirable product suddenly desirable.

It could actually make it worse. Perceived price cut of €100 when they removed kinect, then a headline €100 cut less than 6 months later can give it the stink of failure and have people simply stop buying it. And as someone already mentioned, 360 still lost out to PS3 in Europe 60(outside of the UK) and it was already cheaper and out earlier. Sony/PlayStation simply has significantly more brand value there.



If try though, it would be interesting to see what they do with non-kinect SKU pricing. €329?
 

JavaMind

Banned
It is still really expensive... The right price should be 299 dollars/euros But i think I will bite only when will be 199. Next christmas maybe?
 
But the important question is:

Will retailers stop the ridiculous mark up on PS4 now?
That has been as expensive as a launch Day XBO since release(was like $13 difference).
Swedish retailers did mark it up for four months or so, but it's been at its intended RRP (3990:) for some time now, creeping towards 3490:- since yesterday.

Beyond the initial mark up, the price having been relatively close to that of an Xbox One has more to do with Microsoft not adhering to the traditional pricing model of adding a decimal to the USD price. The Xbox One should have been 4990:- but started at 4490:- The PS4 never had the same price advantage as it did and does in other regions. Or rather, it should be 500:-. Currently you can get a PS4 for 900:- less than the Kinectbox. So a price drop seems in order. But Microsoft could potentially get away with skipping it in tier 2 by pointing towards the value add of FIFA 15 and Forza 5. You will ostensibly be paying ~400:- for them though, making it kind of a poor apology for being a year late. At least that's how I see it.
 

BigDug13

Member
Yeah, pretty much. "Nice but I'm not biting until its $50 less than whats just been announced'.

*Goes $50 lower*

"Nice but I'm not biting until its $50 less than whats just been announced'.

*Goes $50 lower*

"OMG BOMBA, WHO'D BUY ONE NOW ITS TOO CHEAP / THERES NO VALUE / COMPANY KNOW ITS DEAD*

I think the XBO has another issue: online subscription. The average PS4 owner really doesn't want to pay for two online subs and so that makes even a cheap XBO quite an investment. So even if people start to consider the XBO as their second console after buying a PS4, thinking about needing Gold to pretty much make it a worthwhile console gives them pause.

XBO will be some people's primary choice for sure, but I think the multi-console owner with both a Playstation AND an Xbox will be much lower this gen.
 

Guerrilla

Member
Would this be the fastest console price cut?

lol, just looked it up here: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Price_cuts and it seems xbox one is actually pretty late, xbox og, ps3, ps1, n64, gamecube, dreamcast all cut their price earlier.

So it seems most consoles actually dropped their price earlier, which kind of baffles me. did ps3, ps1 and n64 get called out for destroying their value in the eyes of the customer or creating a narrative of not being worth the asking price?
 

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
I think its funny that we've had bundles galore from X1 and Sony has done nothing. What happens when Sony finally decides to cut the price?

Sony have done bundles. But on the subject, when you have a product that the majority market perceives to be the best in comparison to it's competition, you don't really need to sweeten the deal as much.
 
So anyone want to predict when Sony drops their price if this is true? E3 next year seems kind of late imo. They dropped 200$ a year after launch for the PS3.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Ah yes, Kinect. That hot piece of electronics everyone is foaming at the mouth for.

Ditch Kinect and lower the price.

Disagree. At least make some bundles alongside free Dance Central codes with it. Think that's one of the big reasons why the new Dance Central is digital download only.
 
Because they were having trouble shifting them. No such problems with the ps4 so far. Don't expect a price drop for a while.
While true, they had no such problems with the ps2 either and that one dropped a third of it's price (100$) at it's 2nd E3 after launch.
With Sony saying the PS4 was built for aggressive price cuts, I could see one before the PS2 had one.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
XBO will be some people's primary choice for sure, but I think the multi-console owner with both a Playstation AND an Xbox will be much lower this gen.

Got to agree that paying for online on both consoles will put a hamper to this in comparison to previous gens; good point.
 
So anyone want to predict when Sony drops their price if this is true? E3 next year seems kind of late imo.
I'm not sure why people keep thinking there'd be any kind of reaction out of Sony. They're in an overwhelming dominant position right now ((we're talking EU in this thread)). There is zero reason for them to drop the price. The overall sales scheme is not going to substantially change with a quickie XB1 price cut.

Assuming things continue even half as well as they are now there's little incentive for them to cut until perhaps holiday 2015 with a possible hardware change. The situation can change but you don't shave off tens of millions in total revenue with a kneejerk pricecut you don't need. What's going on now is practically and apples-and-oranges comparison to how the PS3 hobbled its first few years.
 

Guerrilla

Member
Got to agree that paying for online on both consoles will put a hamper to this in comparison to previous gens; good point.


yeah they need to work on that xbox live price. They should have a 399 Bundle with one game you can choose (MCC,SO,Fifa) and one year of free xbox live gold. That would sell consoles (they could put a big free online gaming with an asterisk and very fine print saying for one full year on the box) and a lot of people with both consoles would buy the xb1 version of multiplats because they already got gold.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
yeah they need to work on that xbox live price. They should have a 399 Bundle with one game you can choose (MCC,SO,Fifa) and one year of free xbox live gold. That would sell consoles (they could put a big free online gaming with an asterisk and very fine print saying for one full year on the box) and a lot of people with both consoles would buy the xb1 version of multiplats because they already got gold.

They should do that on top of give people a few free months of EA access. Early dibs on games (like FIFA) would probably attract many people in Europe.
 
I think the XBO has another issue: online subscription. The average PS4 owner really doesn't want to pay for two online subs and so that makes even a cheap XBO quite an investment. So even if people start to consider the XBO as their second console after buying a PS4, thinking about needing Gold to pretty much make it a worthwhile console gives them pause.

XBO will be some people's primary choice for sure, but I think the multi-console owner with both a Playstation AND an Xbox will be much lower this gen.

Yep, Sony pulled a blinder making PS+ such a good deal on PS3 (and Vita). A lot of the late to the party purchasers I know bought PS3s and Plus, so tying them into PS4 was with their subs was pretty much guaranteed when Sony made all the right moves last Spring.

They planned ahead and are reaping the rewards so far.

yeah they need to work on that xbox live price. They should have a 399 Bundle with one game you can choose (MCC,SO,Fifa) and one year of free xbox live gold. That would sell consoles (they could put a big free online gaming with an asterisk and very fine print saying for one full year on the box) and a lot of people with both consoles would buy the xb1 version of multiplats because they already got gold.

I think a free year of Gold, and a game plus pad (with Kinect kept in) would be a wiser move than a price drop. Added value looks better to the average Joe than multiple price drops in a short time - official or not.
 

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
While true, they had no such problems with the ps2 either and that one dropped a third of it's price (100$) at it's 2nd E3 after launch.
With Sony saying the PS4 was built for aggressive price cuts, I could see one before the PS2 had one.

But Sony were in a much better financial state back then.

I think a free year of Gold, and a game plus pad (with Kinect kept in) would be a wiser move than a price drop. Added value looks better to the average Joe than multiple price drops in a short time - official or not.

Yup. Got my ps3 a couple of months after (EU) launch. Same price as launch, but it included three games and a spare sixaxxis controller.
 

Kosma

Banned
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, got my OG box for 299 with 4 games, and such an offer would make me think about it again. Great value deal.

That said what I loved about Xbox then is that it was ahead of PS2 in graphics and online gaming, which this time is the other way around (gfx wise at least and online is different story now).
 
Well how do you improve me the image of an "undesirable product", they've done about all they can in the months since release. They're releasing in 26 new countries, what they need to do is get the console in people hands so they can say "actually, XB1 is pretty good", or at least, I think thats what the majority of people will say.

Im enjoying my XB1 a lot, despite the power difference I think its a good console and theres plenty to play and they're getting more great games this holiday and beyond.

Theres no negative way to spin a price drop, it can only be a good thing and lets face it its not like MS can't afford to suck it up

Also, having less power is fine if you're cheaper than the competition which they weren't, they were $100 more and then the same price, they needed to go lower

You don't. The X1 is and will continue to be dead outside NA/UK because it offers nothing of value to those people. In that sense there is nothing MS can do. In NA, it'll do well enough but it will always lag behind the PS4 (just like PS3 did last gen no matter how many exclusives and goodwill Sony amassed).

MS' best bet is just to focus on outselling the Wii U (which seems difficult enough for them), strap on for a rocky gen, and fix their mistakes with the next consoles.

Pusing the price down is a game of chicken, which MS will loose badly. Things are bad now but if they push Sony into going down to to 350 or 299, it's going to be even worse. A $299 PS4 is the last thing MS needs

So the fact that i was supposed to wait 10 months to play DR3 and Ryse it doesn't even matter?

If you want to play something badly i don't see how you can start something in you head like "this mightcome on pc in a year, i'll probably skip for now"

Patience man. I rarely buy games day 1 so waiting a year doesn't really phase me, far better than spending money on a console I won't use too much. While it's not completely true, the perception that all Xbox exclusives eventually end up elsewhere is damaging. MS needs to get working on fixing that. For example, when I buy a Sony game, I know I won't be able to get it anywhere else.
 
Considering the rumors of a very stuffed supply channel, at least considering the low numbers of shipped Xbox Ones last quarter, couldn't this just be a temporary price cut just to clear out supply channels?

I'm sure Microsoft doesn't want to announce back to back quarters of very low console shipments....
 

Lynn616

Member
You don't. The X1 is and will continue to be dead outside NA/UK because it offers nothing of value to those people. In that sense there is nothing MS can do. In NA, it'll do well enough but it will always lag behind the PS4 (just like PS3 did last gen no matter how many exclusives and goodwill Sony amassed).

It offers nothing? The exclusive games don't count? Ease of use?

Pusing the price down is a game of chicken, which MS will loose badly. Things are bad now but if they push Sony into going down to to 350 or 299, it's going to be even worse. A $299 PS4 is the last thing MS needs

Sony just finally started making a small profit in their game division. Dropping $100 off the price would cut $100 Million in revenue for every million consoles sold. They could do it but they would go back to losing money.
 

Game Guru

Member
I think the XBO has another issue: online subscription. The average PS4 owner really doesn't want to pay for two online subs and so that makes even a cheap XBO quite an investment. So even if people start to consider the XBO as their second console after buying a PS4, thinking about needing Gold to pretty much make it a worthwhile console gives them pause.

XBO will be some people's primary choice for sure, but I think the multi-console owner with both a Playstation AND an Xbox will be much lower this gen.

I have to ask... Would former multi-console owners possibly be interested in a Wii U this generation because it has free online, or do you think they will just stick to a single console this generation? This is more curiosity than anything else really.
 
It offers nothing? The exclusive games don't count? Ease of use?



Sony just finally started making a small profit in their game division. Dropping $100 off the price would cut $100 Million in revenue for every million consoles sold. They could do it but they would go back to losing money.

As I said, exclusive games don't mean much. The Halo hardcore might jump in (and even then, the brand is tarnished) but outside the US/UK there's really no reason to go with an X1. It's overly American centered. Other than Halo, none of the X1 exclusives sell that great outside NA/UK. Geard is largely American fueled, Forza is nowhere near GT's level, etc.

They've said (Sony) before that the PS4 was made with adaptability and quick price cuts in mind. I wouldn't be too surprised dude, you're line of the reasoning is exactly the same reason that everyone though the X1 would launch cheaper, yet here we are.

I have to ask... Would former multi-console owners possibly be interested in a Wii U this generation because it has free online, or do you think they will just stick to a single console this generation? This is more curiosity than anything else really.

Wii U will sell because you can't play Nintendo games anywhere else (not the case for a lot of xbox "exclusives"), not because of online.
 

Xando

Member
I have to ask... Would former multi-console owners possibly be interested in a Wii U this generation because it has free online, or do you think they will just stick to a single console this generation? This is more curiosity than anything else really.

I would probably buy a Wii U sometime down the road, maybe 2-3 years from now only to play the new zelda and mario games.
 

-MD-

Member
yeah keep on reading, most changes are in the second paragraph and no he obviously isn't talking specifically about people who have a beast gaming pc, if you read his earlier posts in this thread he bassically means everyone. I bet the average pc won't play ryse or dr3 better than the xb1...

That's why I put all the changes i made in italic letters. but ok will bold them to make even more obvious

1. I was talking about people with gaming PCs, not people with $199 walmart computers.

2. You could just make your own post and not edit out every other word of mine with a bunch of pointless things like "big screen" and "surround sound". Do you think those are exclusive console features?
 
I have to ask... Would former multi-console owners possibly be interested in a Wii U this generation because it has free online, or do you think they will just stick to a single console this generation? This is more curiosity than anything else really.

WiiU is a great second console, not having to worry about an online subscription helps, but it's got such a compelling library now (and that Gamepad differentiator - especially for off-TV play) that it's a secondary (at best) concern.
 

Lynn616

Member
As I said, exclusive games don't mean much. The Halo hardcore might jump in (and even then, the brand is tarnished) but outside the US/UK there's really no reason to go with an X1. It's overly American centered. Other than Halo, none of the X1 exclusives sell that great outside NA/UK. Geard is largely American fueled, Forza is nowhere near GT's level, etc.

All Xbox exclusives dont mean much? They offer nothing of value to Europe? Oh boy. HDMI pass-trough and Suspend and Resume are a consideration. Speed of response is important. As is ease of use. The couple minutes it takes to boot a console and load a save game should be a thing of the past.

They've said (Sony) before that the PS4 was made with adaptability and quick price cuts in mind. I wouldn't be too surprised dude, you're line of the reasoning is exactly the same reason that everyone though the X1 would launch cheaper, yet here we are.

What is my line of reasoning? That Sony wants to make a profit? Seems reasonable.
 
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