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Byron Smith convicted of premeditated murder of two teens during home break-in

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T

tearsintherain

Member
ZOONAMI said:
This gonna be a movie?
Click to expand...

Isn't it basically the plot to Don't Breathe, except the old guy is blind in the movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76yBTNDB6vU

Also I think most people aren't reading the articles linked to the case. This wasn't an incident of two random kids breaking into a strangers house. The man had known the kids for a while, had them in his house at least a dozen times, had hired them them to do minor clean up jobs, and was convinced the kids had stolen money and valuable items from his house.

I have no idea why he didn't buy an alarm system, get dogs, call the cops, move, etc and instead decided to kill the people who were stealing from him. Dunno if that's crazy, evil, a bit of both, or something else.
 
B

Breads

Banned
Makki said:
I dont agree that the kills were premeditated. The guy had been broken into before, from reading the whole thing he definitely comes as a mentally disturbed individual, but he would have killed anything that went into his basement no matter who the thief was and the whole thing required some dickhead to break into his house anyway, its not like he placed a trail of jewelry to his open front door. I also dont agree that appearing to not be home should be considered as robbery bait to make thiefs be justified to break in and protected from injuries if unnarmed. He definitely was not right after the first shot though, so his case for self defense falls flat on the face after he basically puts the intruders down like animals.

On the other hand, the old man strikes me as a dangerous individual from the recordings though, a really aggressive and bitter man.
Click to expand...

Blood tarps don't count as premeditation to you? The fuck?
 
T

TS-08

Member
numble said:
It does not say the defendant must prove he was acting properly. The defendant is presumed to be acting properly.
Click to expand...

Yeah but, practically speaking, any defendant should be prepared to argue and "prove" that he or she actually did reasonably believe he or she or a third party was in imminent danger (or whatever the statutory definition is), because if the State does present evidence that looks bad for the defendant (let's use Dumpweed's TV example), a reasonable jury may ultimately need to be persuaded that the defendant actually did fear such a danger.

My point is that the thrust of dunpweed's argument regarding California is still sound, even if he isn't describing it with complete accuracy.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
The right the defend your property doesn't give you the right to execute humans like animals.

This was extremely beyond defense. It was premeditated execution. Shot the girl three times in the Fucking head.

Correct decision.
 
K

KrellRell

Member
Culex said:
They played Russian Roulette and landed on deranged murderer.
Click to expand...

Breaking into a house is only "Russian Roulette" in certain places. The penalty should be charges or jail time - not execution by owner. The fact that they were murdered for it, makes them poor kids in my mind.
 
D

D'ultimate

Member
Machina said:
This is the dream of most gun owners in the US: The opportunity to kill someone under the assumption they'll get away with it
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Its definitely not most and you already caught a lot of crap for it but I know where you're coming from. I know quite a few gun owners I would categorize like this. No hunting or gun collecting. Just straight up want a reason to legally murder someone I feel.
 
G

Galactic Barret

Member
That was the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in my entire 29 years.

You people trying to use the law to support this are fucking pathetic. That was an execution. The danger was eliminated once the first shot was fired, especially after he reloaded and basically said 'You're dying" (As in, 'No, no, you're going to die today. Don't even bother begging for your life.').

I can't even process this. There is no saving this world. A reasonable response to this would be to cry, but there aren't enough tears in me. This is a daily occurrence: 'Justified' murder. And nothing is ever going to stop it. I'm so overwhelmed, I don't even know what to do anymore.

This is not the world I want to live in.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Machina said:
...He orchestrated their murders. It really doesn't matter what their intentions were at that point. They came for items that didn't belong to them, he came for their lives
Click to expand...

Do you notice that I'm not talking about whether he was right to murder them? I'm talking about the response of "well you should have gotten better screens for your windows!"
 
L

lightskintwin

Banned
It's really the tape that did him in, because without it; I don't think anybody would've looked further into his "self defense". Everybody would've looked at it as 2 less "criminals" off the streets.
 
B

Breads

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
Do you notice that I'm not talking about whether he was right to murder them? I'm talking about the response of "well you should have gotten better screens for your windows!"
Click to expand...

They are selectively addressing what they want while otherwise being intentionally obtuse. They aren't engaging in this conversation honestly.

They have an oddball point to make and by golly are they intent on making it.
 
A

Amon37

Member
lightskintwin said:
It's really the tape that did him in, because without it; I don't think anybody would've looked further into his "self defense". Everybody would've looked at it as 2 less "criminals" off the streets.
Click to expand...

I still see it as 2 less criminals off the streets. No quotes though because they are actually criminals.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
numble said:
ABC10 is wrong by saying a defendant must prove those facts. Look at the document ABC10 cites, instruction 3477. The defendant is presumed to believe those facts in the case of a home intruder. The state must prove otherwise.
.
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Isn't that the case in literally every criminal trial? The defendant never has to prove anything.
 
M

Media

Member
If you are defending this guy, then you should also be advocating instant death for everyone who steals anything, no trial, just shot in the streets.

They were 17 and 18 years old. In the tape he even talks about how he wanted them dead because they would only go to jail for a year. They had the entire rest of their lives to turn themselves around. He destroyed that without mercy.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Galactic Barret said:
That was the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in my entire 29 years.

You people trying to use the law to support this are fucking pathetic. That was an execution. The danger was eliminated once the first shot was fired, especially after he reloaded and basically said 'You're dying" (As in, 'No, no, you're going to die today. Don't even bother begging for your life.').

I can't even process this. There is no saving this world. A reasonable response to this would be to cry, but there aren't enough tears in me. This is a daily occurrence: 'Justified' murder. And nothing is ever going to stop it. I'm so overwhelmed, I don't even know what to do anymore.

This is not the world I want to live in.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your interpretation of the crime, but there's no need to be so histrionic about it. This is far, far, far from the most tragic thing that's ever happened on earth and people have been killing each other since people existed.
 
G

Ganhyun

Member
Dude is obviously in the wrong and is a murderer.

On the other side, if you enter someone's house illegally, you are willingly risking your life if the owner feels threatened by you doing it. Anyone committing a burglary or robbery is knowingly taking this risk.

So while he had a right to defend himself if he was actually threatened/scared that is not what actually happened. if if that is what had happened more of GAF would defend it, but its NOT what happened. He planned it Thus, he deserves to be in jail.
 
sankt-Antonio

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
xDUMPWEEDx said:
That is awkward as hell to read. Like, the first half agrees with what I think, then the second half disagrees.

Anyways, California basically boils down to:
For purposes of the self-defense legal defense, “reasonable under the circumstances” means that you need to have:

1. Reasonably believed that you were in imminent danger of being killed, injured, or touched unlawfully,

2. Reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent that from happening

3. Used no more force than was necessary to prevent that from happening

I've never heard of anyone here killing someone for stealing their property and not going to prison for it.
Click to expand...

You can murder someone if you reasonably believe you are going to get "touched unlawfully"? What the hell? I must be misunderstanding something here.

Sorry for being off-topic with this one.
 
T

TS-08

Member
I'm glad there are so many people in this thread explaining to us that breaking into people's homes is a bad idea. I don't know what we'd do without such brilliant insight.
 
Carnby

Carnby

Member
Makki said:
I dont agree that the kills were premeditated. The guy had been broken into before, from reading the whole thing he definitely comes as a mentally disturbed individual, but he would have killed anything that went into his basement no matter who the thief was and the whole thing required some dickhead to break into his house anyway, its not like he placed a trail of jewelry to his open front door. I also dont agree that appearing to not be home should be considered as robbery bait to make thiefs be justified to break in and protected from injuries if unnarmed. He definitely was not right after the first shot though, so his case for self defense falls flat on the face after he basically puts the intruders down like animals.

On the other hand, the old man strikes me as a dangerous individual from the recordings though, a really aggressive and bitter man.
Click to expand...

He had fucking plastic tarp on the floor, waiting to wrap their bodies in. How the fuck is this not premeditated?
 
A

Arttemis

Member
Makki said:
I dont agree that the kills were premeditated. The guy had been broken into before, from reading the whole thing he definitely comes as a mentally disturbed individual, but he would have killed anything that went into his basement no matter who the thief was and the whole thing required some dickhead to break into his house anyway, its not like he placed a trail of jewelry to his open front door. I also dont agree that appearing to not be home should be considered as robbery bait to make thiefs be justified to break in and protected from injuries if unnarmed. He definitely was not right after the first shot though, so his case for self defense falls flat on the face after he basically puts the intruders down like animals.

On the other hand, the old man strikes me as a dangerous individual from the recordings though, a really aggressive and bitter man.
Click to expand...
I don't agree that you know what you're talking about.
 
P

Phased

Member
I think shooting them was fine, they broke in. If you're a home invader that kinda seems like a known job hazard. Executing them when they were no longer a threat makes it murder.

He went way beyond what was necessary in defending his home and it's clear he intended to kill ahead of time so I'm glad he got convicted.
 
T

Tigress

Member
Phased said:
I think shooting them was fine, they broke in. If you're a home invader that kinda seems like a known job hazard. Executing them when they were no longer a threat makes it murder.

He went way beyond what was necessary in defending his home and it's clear he intended to kill ahead of time so I'm glad he got convicted.
Click to expand...

I think you might have a point if he hadn't tried to make it more likely they would come in and hadn't set up a trap for them so he could surprise and shoot them (he had a place set for him to surprise them, he untwisted lightbulbs so they couldn't turn on lights and see him more easily, he put a cellphone jammer up so they couldn't call!!!! he definitely was setting up a death trap for them. And he tried to make it more appealing for them to break in by making it appear the house was empty going as far as parking his car blocks away so they wouldn't see it). But the fact he both made it more appealing for a thief to come in as well as set a trap so he could easily kill them I think makes it worse than even just not defending himself, he definitely premeditated it. This goes beyond whether he wanted to defend himself or not. He was actively trying to kill them.
 
U

Username1198

Member
So godamn sad. I wish him nothing but misery, hopelessness, torment and pain and that he lives to be 120 years old just to suffer.

Smh at his defenders.
 
E

Erv

Member
Culex said:
They were not "poor kids". 100% did not deserve their fate, but let's not sweep under the rug their ever-escalating break-ins.
Click to expand...

no they were poor kids because even though they did some petty crime nobody who just did some simple robberies deserves to be gunned down like that.
 
E

Erv

Member
Username1198 said:
So godamn sad. I wish him nothing but misery, hopelessness, torment and pain and that he lives to be 120 years old just to suffer.

Smh at his defenders.
Click to expand...

I agree but when you're that crazy you might not even suffer like normal people. He is probably in his own little world.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
sankt-Antonio said:
You can murder someone if you reasonably believe you are going to get "touched unlawfully"? What the hell? I must be misunderstanding something here.

Sorry for being off-topic with this one.
Click to expand...

An "unlawful touch" is something like battery or sexual assault, and the law is specifying that defense in these matters does not constitute "murder". A woman who stabs her attempted rapist with a pocket knife during the commission of the act is not a murderer if he then dies to his wounds.


Regardless, every legal standard makes clear that defense must be reactive and with the intent to protect yourself in the moment. What he did went way, way, way beyond defense.
 
B

Breads

Banned
Amon37 said:
For me personally, unless your caught smoking weed I probably couldn't care less if you happened to die committing your crime. I don't know every law on the books.
Click to expand...

Who gets to determine whether or not someone is committing a crime? Who has the authority to commit these executions?
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
 
H

Hierophant

Banned
I don't believe someone stealing my TV deserves to get shot in the face but you maniacs do you I guess, it's not like I live in gunland
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Chittagong said:
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
Click to expand...
So do you believe that burglary should carry the death penalty? Otherwise this is a very inconsistent stance.

And the guy was not defending his property. This went far beyond any degree of self defense or defense or property. It's flat-out pre-meditated murder (as in, something methodically planned out and then put into motion, not something that happened in the heat of the moment or in any way necessary or unavoidable), which is never alright. The victims being burglars doesn't change that or make it go away and convicting such an individual is the just and only choice. To believe otherwise is just crazy to me.

And it's not just worrying about burglars becoming more dangerous that you should be concerned about. Even if for some reason you're not moved by the rights of burglars, which remain such regardless of what they did, to not convict would also be to encourage vigilante justice and for homeowners to take the law into their own hands, being judge, jury, and executioner. That's a dark road that never works out well for anyone and always makes situations worse when they're tried, which is precisely why the right decision was to convict to make sure we don't go down such a path and start encouraging such actions.
 
B

BinaryPork2737

Unconfirmed Member
Chittagong said:
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
Click to expand...

Man purposefully lures people into his house, records himself while planning how to murder them (down to where he'll shoot them), records himself murdering them (both of the recordings were mistakenly made on his part, too, it's pure luck that they exist), and people still say "yeah, this dude shouldn't have been convicted."

Also worth noting that he desecrated the girl's corpse after she was already dead by shooting her again.
 
H

Hierophant

Banned
Actually I take that back, reading through the thread some of you are absolutely fucking maniacs, your glee in some non violent burglars being killed like yeah we might as well start chopping off hands for stealing bread too ay
There is something immensely wrong with the gun culture of the United States when this actual barbarism is getting cheered on.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Smith attempts to shoot her again with his rifle but it jams. He says "Sorry about that" and then, while telling the incapacitated Kifer "you're dying, bitch" and calls her a "bitch" a few times, then shoots her five more times with his .22 revolver, including once in the eye, once behind the ear, and a final "good, clean finishing shot" underneath the chin because (summarized) ".22s don't penetrate skull very well".
Click to expand...
Someone please explain to me how this is defending your home, especially the bolded part. He literally did a coup de grace.
 
A

Aytumious

Banned
Chittagong said:
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
Click to expand...

So if you were on the jury you would have voted not guilty?
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
I came into this thread expecting to not feel sympathy for the victims because I'm a legit cold hearted bastard, but goddamn if that wasn't hard to read. And yea, that guy is a fucking psycho. Anyone who thinks there's nothing wrong with how this went down is kind of nuts, and I'm saying that as someone who is usually the nut :-/
 
B

Breads

Banned
Chittagong said:
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
Click to expand...

They weren't convicted for "defending their home".

They were convicted for setting up a honey pot with a murder room draped in blood tarps and telling the person pleading for their life "you're dying, bitch".

Well, that's part of the reason why anyway.

Surely someone as glib as to be pleased with the deaths of these teens would at least listen to the tapes from this madman.
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
Chittagong said:
On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.
Click to expand...

You're not much better than the cold-blooded murderer, to be honest.
 
E

Erv

Member
Neogaf is littered with some people who I would definitely not want to be within five feet of in real life. I think my life would be in danger. For real
 
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