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[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Neogaf is littered with some people who I would definitely not want to be within five feet of in real life. I think my life would be in danger. For real

Keep in mind that Neogaf is considered to be a den of bleeding hearts compared to the rest of the internet and it gets much more unsettling.

 

[HoodWinked]

that audio recording is nightmare fuel.

 

[numble]

Isn't that the case in literally every criminal trial? The defendant never has to prove anything.

No, read the instruction for a normal self-defense claim. Normally, if the defendant claims self-defense, they must prove it. If the defendant claims self-defense against an intruder, they do not have to prove it.

 

[HariKari]

Someone please explain to me how this is defending your home, especially the bolded part. He literally did a coup de grace.

It's not. You can only use reasonable force. You can't 'finish' intruders off. Hence being convicted and in prison.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

that audio recording is nightmare fuel.

It is. Almost surreal in a way.

 

[starchild excalibur]

This is the dream of most gun owners in the US: The opportunity to kill someone under the assumption they'll get away with it

Nah, not most. But I do think there are some gun owners who fit the bill. I've known two gun-owning friends. One of them once described how if cops ever stormed his apartment he could see himself going out in a blaze, firing. The other friend had a literal zombie survival pack and always struck me as someone who would be happy with a zombie scenario because it would legitimize him killing former humans.

Both are sane dudes who I still think very positively of, but it's obvious with both of them that as nice as it was to own some guns they wished - or at least would welcome - a situation where they could use them.

 

[CHC]

I'm really glad about this conviction. Doesn't seem like something most Americans would go in for, but this shit was just sadism disguised as righteousness. I hope the rest of this miserable man's days are each their own form of hell.

 

[I H8 Memes]

I wonder if any of the people here defending this guy listened to the audio. I aint listening to it, but I'm not trying to defend the guy either.

 

[Nappuccino]

that audio recording is nightmare fuel.

The audio is one of the reasons I stopped listening to Sword and Scale. Asshole just dropped the full audio with no warning.

Small time crooks don't deserve what those teens got.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

I'm honestly kind of amazed that he called the police at all. Everything about this seems like he was setup and ready to just disappear these bodies underneath his house, slap a couple stickers on the side of his truck and go about his life.

Fuckin hell...

 

[PRBoricua]

I'm honestly kind of amazed that he called the police at all. Everything about this seems like he was setup and ready to just disappear these bodies underneath his house, slap a couple stickers on the side of his truck and go about his life.

Fuckin hell...

That's the thing, he didn't call the police, he had his neighbor do it! Then, when asked why he didn't call the police immediately after the shooting, he told the investigator that he "didn't want to ruin their (the Police) Thanksgiving".

Unreal.

I've tried (unsuccessfully) to find the audio from the police interview, but I can't find it anywhere.

 

[vern]

On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.

Disgusting person you are.

 

[Griss]

I had never heard of this case before, but...

that audio recording is nightmare fuel.

...this, basically. Sick, sick fuck.

I feel like my sympathy for the victims is limited because of what they were doing, but it's not non-existant, if that makes sense. It's diminished but not exhausted. You've got to know that if you break into a man's house your life is on the line. But we can't allow execution of burglars, it's revolting.

 

[scamander]

Holy shit at that attention to detail. Yea I can understand killing someone who breaks into your house and some luring but yea he crossed a few lines especially with those double taps.

I, and frankly the rest of the sane part of the Western world, cannot.

 

[Kallor]

Neogaf is littered with some people who I would definitely not want to be within five feet of in real life. I think my life would be in danger. For real

Just think how much worse it is in the real world. My brother was called a psychopath and told that he lacked morals by a group of people because he called Byron a murderer.

"he was just defending his home!!"

dude revenge killed children over guns.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

This is pretty much completely irrelevant in this case because the "victim" was a psychotic monster who deserves to spend the rest of his life either in prison or a mental ward, buuuut when discussing robbery, the loss of material goods is just one harm inflicted by the crime. Theft of any kind can have lasting psychological effects, but having your home violated by an invader can be a severely traumatizing experience. It's a breach of personal security and peace of mind that is unlikely to be easily repaired.

Again, it's fucking horrific and tragic what happened to those two teens, and the murderer should be locked up for life, but it's ignorant as hell how some people are dismissing burglary as a petty crime that just sets the victim back a few hundred bucks.

You don't have to sterilize what they did in order to acknowledge how fucking nightmarish their fate was or how sad it is that they ended up on that path at all.

 

[D'ultimate]

I had never heard of this case before, but...



...this, basically. Sick, sick fuck.

I feel like my sympathy for the victims is limited because of what they were doing, but it's not non-existant, if that makes sense. It's diminished but not exhausted. You've got to know that if you break into a man's house your life is on the line. But we can't allow execution of burglars, it's revolting.

This is understandable but this thread has got me wondering if I'm missing out on a larger joke or something. People are wanting the murder of unarmed kids because they are committing a crime.

I mean stealing someone's shit is bad but the punishment of murder is fitting? Seriously?!

 

[TheContact]

On one hand, I am pleased that burglars get shot dead, and disappointed that someone defending their home is convicted.

On the other hand, if it becomes accepted for burglars to get kiled, the result is that burglars will weapon up and become even more violent.

The fk dude did you even read the OP?
Yes the burglers deserved to be punished but not by death. They weren't armed and this psycho wanted to kill them

 

[LordKasual]

Keep in mind that Neogaf is considered to be a den of bleeding hearts compared to the rest of the internet and it gets much more unsettling.

Honestly, i don't think NeoGAF's hearts bleed nearly as much as they might think they do lol

some people have some really warped mindsets around here

 

[hanspampel]

This is understandable but this thread has got me wondering if I'm missing out on a larger joke or something. People are wanting the murder of unarmed kids because they are committing a crime.

I mean stealing someone's shit is bad but the punishment of murder is fitting? Seriously?!

Here is the point you're probably missing.
People don't want the murder of unarmed kids, but people are okay if that happens, when they commit a serious crime.

I doubt anyone here is fine how this happed to them and the circumstances, as basically all agree with the sentence of the trial.


But burglar in geberal being shot? Or hamrmed in self defense of your property. Many obviously think that is okay and i understand that

 

[Jarmel]

I, and frankly the rest of the sane part of the Western world, cannot.

Nowadays you don't know if someone is carrying or what they plan to do. It's perfectly reasonable to shoot to kill if a burglar breaks in at night and if they pose a possible threat. Here however he clearly knew the other party was incapacitated and that they weren't armed and killed them off after they were defenseless. Not to mention luring them in the first place.

 

[holygeesus]

How on earth can people claim this was not premeditated? The audio recordings he made, have him rehearsing the phone calls he is going to make to police/his friend explaining he needs a lawyer *before* he even shoots anyone.

He knew he was drawing them in. Doesn't make it right to burglarise a house if you think it is empty, but holy hell people.

 

[Claude Augario]

Some of the responses in this thread along with that one post from the guy who's friend murdered his own wife and invited him over for dinner while her body was in the garage makes me wonder how many people in this thread are pitiful edgelords and how many of them have legit corpses in their backyard.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Nowadays you don't know if someone is carrying or what they plan to do. It's perfectly reasonable to shoot to kill if a burglar breaks in at night and if they pose a possible threat. Here however he clearly knew the other party was incapacitated and that they weren't armed and killed them off after they were defenseless. Not to mention luring them in the first place.

In the US? Sure, the rest of the world not so much.

 

[holygeesus]

In the US? Sure, the rest of the world not so much.

Not sure where you are from, but the UK laws seem perfectly sensible to me

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

Does the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.

What amounts to disproportionate force? I’ve heard I can use that.
The force you use must always be reasonable in the circumstances as you believe them to be. Where you are defending yourself or others from intruders in your home, it might still be reasonable in the circumstances for you to use a degree of force that is subsequently considered to be disproportionate, perhaps if you are acting in extreme circumstances in the heat of the moment and don’t have a chance to think about exactly how much force would be necessary to repel the intruder: it might seem reasonable to you at the time but, with hindsight, your actions may seem disproportionate. The law will give you the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances.

This only applies if you were acting in self-defence or to protect others in your home and the force you used was disproportionate – disproportionate force to protect property is still unlawful.

I’ve heard that I can’t use grossly disproportionate force. What does that mean?
If your action was ‘over the top’ or a calculated action of revenge or retribution, for example, this might amount to grossly disproportionate force for which the law does not protect you. If, for example, you had knocked an intruder unconscious and then went on to kick and punch them repeatedly, such an action would be more likely to be considered grossly disproportionate.

Do I have to wait to be attacked?
No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others. In those circumstances the law does not require you to wait to be attacked before using defensive force yourself.

What if the intruder dies?
If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully. Indeed, there are several such cases where the householder has not been prosecuted. However, if, for example:

having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them; or
you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police,
you would be acting with very excessive and gratuitous force and could be prosecuted.

What if I chase them as they run off?
This situation is different as you are no longer acting in self-defence and so the same degree of force may not be reasonable. However, you are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen's arrest. You should consider your own safety and, for example, whether the police have been called. A rugby tackle or a single blow would probably be reasonable. Acting out of malice and revenge with the intent of inflicting punishment through injury or death would not.

Use of weapon includes legally owned firearms too. A guy local to me, wasn't even charged when he shot and incapacitated a burglar with a legally owned shotgun.

 

[Sean C]

In the US? Sure, the rest of the world not so much.

No, that's not true. If somebody breaks into your house in the middle of the night in pretty much any western country, a person has a very, very wide latitude to act in their own defense. The house is unique in the English common law in there being no duty to retreat; one is always entitled to stay and defend your house.

This is far from unlimited, of course.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Good, 100% deserved. I would have accepted the death penalty as well if it was an option.

What i do find odd is some posts defending the kids. They did not deserve this but breaking an entry is no joke. If he didn't record audio and admit to half the shit he told the police, he would have been let go with ease.

 

[Codeblue]

There's a lot more people taking up the banner for a disgusting old sociopath than I thought in here.

I don't know how you can read that story and not have your stomach turn.

 

[Aytumious]

Good, 100% deserved. I would have accepted the death penalty as well if it was an option.

What i do find odd is some posts defending the kids. They did not deserve this but breaking an entry is no joke. If he didn't record audio and admit to half the shit he told the police, he would have been let go with ease.

Doubtful. The ballistics evidence shows that he executed both of them.

 

[NimbusD]

This is fucking disgusting. Glad a deranged lunatic didnt get off on this and I hope it doesnt get fucked up in appeals. Just reading about it makes me nauseous, especially the account of him killing the second person.

Holy shit at that attention to detail. Yea I can understand killing someone who breaks into your house and some luring but yea he crossed a few lines especially with those double taps.

Sure, if you have to. This dude incapacitated both of them separately and had a choice to kill or to stop there. But he had always planned to kill them and there's overwhelming evidence he was luring people in with the specific intention of murdering them, not the intention of defending himself or his property.

 

[Dmented]

This is fucking disgusting. Glad a deranged lunatic didnt get off on this and I hope it doesnt get fucked up in appeals. Just reading about it makes me nauseous, especially the account of him killing the second person.



Sure, if you have to. This dude incapacitated both of them separately and had a choice to kill or to stop there. But he had always planned to kill them and there's overwhelming evidence he was luring people in with the specific intention of murdering them, not the intention of defending himself or his property.

I mean shit, he says "he doesn't want to live in fear" that if he didn't kill them they would maybe go to jail for months/few years and come back out needing money more than before and possibly revenge. That's his "reason" for murdering them. There's no "self-defense" here, it's murder plain and simple. He had plenty of time to call the police while also protecting himself in the meanwhile with a gun, but instead he decided to make a death trap.

 

[boiled goose]

Keep in mind that Neogaf is considered to be a den of bleeding hearts compared to the rest of the internet and it gets much more unsettling.

Neogaf is hardly progressive lol. Generally liberal is a far cry from bleeding hearts.