Support NeoGAF

[Dark Octave]

Don't they usually just cut the hands off thieves in your country?

Harsh that theft has a death sentence now.

ben...

 

[makeemsayuhjr]

Intent matters.

It is clear that this man's intent was not to defend his home, but to kill intruders. Hence the tarp. Hence making the home more enticing for intruders. Hence the jamming equipment. Hence the not calling the police. Hence the multitude of statements he made to police. Hence the multitude of statements he recorded himself about his thoughts. Hence the taunts he made while he was committing the murders. Hence the calm wait for 10 minutes after he killed the boy for his next vicitm to show up. Hence the manner in which he executed both individuals. Hence the preparation for the entire situation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Z_2oU9B2o

This is the sound of a woman who wants to defend herself and family.


https://soundcloud.com/pioneerpress/audio-from-byron-smiths-house

This is the sound of a man who wants to murder his enemies.

Both involve people breaking in. In the former, a woman did not entice a break in, nor did she want, desire, or pursue a situation where she was victimized, endangered, or cornered into killing. In the latter, a man enticed a break in, out of want, desire, and pursuit of a situation where he could be victimized, endangered, and given an excuse, a pretense, to kill.

In the former, a woman used her property as a baricade to shield herself from harm initially. In the latter, a man took precautions to prevent stains upon his property from the human blood he would spill upon it.

In the former, a woman warned an intruder not to enter. In the latter, a man calmly sat in his basement, waiting for the opportunity where he could finally take out some bad guys with a surprise attack.

In the former, a woman was in contact with an emergency dispatcher, asking for asistance along the way. In the latter, a man acted on his own, without any regard for involving, deferring to, or consulting the police.

In the former, a woman was clearly troubled by the act of killing someone, and did so with great reservations, regret, and remorse. In the latter, a man took great joy and pleasure in the act of killing, with great anticipation.

Though both killed individuals who unlawfully enterd their property with malicious intent, one acted in a sound manner in accordance with the law and deserving of its mercy.
One acted in a deranged manner with murderous intent and a blatant disregard for the law, and is deserving of nothing less than prosecution and conviction to the full extent of the law.

Hence hence hence. Look, as I have said, I agree this guy crossed the line. I just simply disagree that he made his home more enticing to break into. I just don't feel that not having your car in the driveway and lights out is inviting someone to steal from you.

It's really a non-issue as we agree he needs to be in jail for his actions.

I will only disagree with one point you made about the man acting on his own and not calling the police. It is not a home owners obligation to call the police first to make sure they can defend themselves like that woman did. Individuals will react differently to situations, but I will not hold it against someone if they don't call the police first.

I am only talking in broad context about these matters and not about this specific case.

What he did after the first shot and not calling the police immediately after that is what pushed this way over for me.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I just don't feel that not having your car in the driveway and lights out is inviting someone to steal from you.

Yep. It was probably just "park my car a three blocks away, remove all lightbulbs from basement, and sit around with my gun" day. Stupid kids picking that day of all days to break into a house. Who knows what he was talking about in the recordings when he talked about "leaving at 11:30" probably unrelated. Just casual chatter between a guy and his imaginary friend.

 

[makeemsayuhjr]

I am completely calm. The all caps was more of an "LOL, NOBODY SAID THIS!" than me yelling at you through the NeoGAFs.

You are arguing against a fact. He did attempt to make his home look desirable to the thieves. Are you actually saying that this is an impossible thing? Like, it literally can't be done?

If I were to try tonight to catch a thief's attention by leaving a stack of cash in front of a window in plain site, my body would shut down like Robocop ignoring directive 4, because I was attempting something that could not be done. He couldn't have been attempting to lure them in, that's literally impossible!

I assume what you're really attempting to argue is that in the end everyone is responsible for their actions. The thieves chose to break in, nobody forced them to. My stack of money in front of the window doesn't make someone steal it, they choose to, and that's all that matters. Which is fine, and correct, to a degree. Again, he wasn't charged with luring them in. The prosecutions argument that it was premeditated murder was just backed up with the evidence of him attempting to lure them in.

I guess my only problem is calling it premeditated; semantics really...

I know that law obviously sees it different, but it seems like for premeditated you should have a specific person in mind, not just "I'm going to shoot whoever breaks in my house".

And yes, I think everyone, including this ding-dong, is responsible for their own actions. Is setting a stack of bills any more enticing than the $10000 worth of av equipment you can see in my house through the window?

 

[numble]

I guess my only problem is calling it premeditated; semantics really...

I know that law obviously sees it different, but it seems like for premeditated you should have a specific person in mind, not just "I'm going to shoot whoever breaks in my house".

And yes, I think everyone, including this ding-dong, is responsible for their own actions. Is setting a stack of bills any more enticing than the $10000 worth of av equipment you can see in my house through the window?

Premeditation only requires you to plan to kill them the second you pull the trigger, self-defense is planning to defend yourself from an attempt on your life. Premeditated executions of already incapacitated persons is not self defense.

 

[makeemsayuhjr]

Yep. It was probably just "park my car a three blocks away, remove all lightbulbs from basement, and sit around with my gun" day. Stupid kids picking that day of all days to break into a house. Who knows what he was talking about in the recordings when he talked about "leaving at 11:30" probably unrelated. Just casual chatter between a guy and his imaginary friend.

This is out of context of what I was saying. I am not defending this guy in this case, just making the argument about a house looking like no one is home as an excuse to break in. If you make poor choices, bad things can happen.

 

[makeemsayuhjr]

Premeditation only requires you to plan to kill them the second you pull the trigger, self-defense is planning to defend yourself from an attempt on your life. Premeditated executions of already incapacitated persons is not self defense.

Yeah. That makes since. I also never made the argument that his actions were self defense, just didn't agree with the charge, but I agree with the outcome no matter how we got there.

Weird, I know...

 

[danwarb]

Change the law back. Stop letting psychopaths write your laws.

Then people won't think they can get away with murder, and deadly force will require justification.

 

[plagiarize]

This is out of context of what I was saying. I am not defending this guy in this case, just making the argument about a house looking like no one is home as an excuse to break in. If you make poor choices, bad things can happen.

it's an awkward argument to try to make because we know that Byron prepared for bloodshed and then successfully made his house more enticing to break into. We know he was trying to lure them in. We know they were lured in.

There really isn't anything unclear about the specifics in Byron's case.

 

[OrangeJulius]

it's an awkward argument to try to make because we know that Byron prepared for bloodshed and then successfully made his house more enticing to break into. We know he was trying to lure them in. We know they were lured in.

There really isn't anything unclear about the specifics in Byron's case.

This is the simple truth of it. I'm not sure what people want to debate here. The guy set a trap for them. He had every intention of luring them in and killing them. The facts of the case speak for themselves and the tape is the damning evidence.

He took the law into his own hands and made himself judge, jury and executioner.

He will spend the rest of his life behind bars paying for that decision. And rightfully so.

 

[Josh7289]

I'm so glad about this result. Justice has prevailed. I am glad that this killer will be behind bars now.

 

[xxracerxx]

I read the OP, I was wondering if there was some reason that his name was used in the title. Like if I should know him for anything other than being a murderer. Asshole

Then word it like that. The question you asked that I was responding to is answered in the OP.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Good. I do find it odd that so many feel the need to point out that the kids were also in the wrong for breaking and entering. No shit guys.

 

[Dark Octave]

Good. I do find it odd that so many feel the need to point out that the kids were also in the wrong for breaking and entering. No shit guys.

It's all good as long as we know that you know...that we know that you know.

 

[Arkos]

Then word it like that. The question you asked that I was responding to is answered in the OP.

If you want to get picky, I asked "who is Byron Smith" because the use of his name in the title seems to imply that I should know who this guy is. You don't see threads titled "Jeff Smith runs amuck while on meth G/A/F." So I was wondering if this was some well known person, or even some well known legal case. He isn't, it isn't. This is the first I've ever heard of this guy. That's what I asked

I thought that was pretty implicit in my post. I mean, even if I only read the title then I know that this guy is a murderer, etc.

 

[xxracerxx]

It is literally in the first post.

If you want to get picky, I asked "who is Byron Smith" because the use of his name in the title seems to imply that I should know who this guy is. You don't see threads titled "Jeff Smith runs amuck while on meth G/A/F." So I was wondering if this was some well known person, or even some well known legal case. He isn't, it isn't. This is the first I've ever heard of this guy. That's what I asked

I thought that was pretty implicit in my post. I mean, even if I only read the title then I know that this guy is an accused murderer, etc.

Well it wasn't implicit for me and this guy.

It is literally in the first post.

 

[Arkos]

Well it wasn't implicit for me and this guy.

I know, I see that it apparently wasn't, just assume better of your fellow GAFfers next time apologies for the misunderstanding

 

[kaioshade]

I know this may have been said earlier, but while i dont condone murderous rage, how many people are going to get shot before these thieves realize to STOP DOING IT.

Seriously, dont break into other people's homes and you wont get shot. It really is quite simple.

 

[bengraven]

ben...

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I guess my only problem is calling it premeditated; semantics really...

I know that law obviously sees it different, but it seems like for premeditated you should have a specific person in mind, not just "I'm going to shoot whoever breaks in my house".

And yes, I think everyone, including this ding-dong, is responsible for their own actions. Is setting a stack of bills any more enticing than the $10000 worth of av equipment you can see in my house through the window?

It's like hitting someone with your car, then putting the car in reverse to finish them. Even though the person isn't getting up.

 

[Kiru]

Listening to the audio is horrible. Surreal.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I know this may have been said earlier, but while i dont condone murderous rage, how many people are going to get shot before these thieves realize to STOP DOING IT.

Seriously, dont break into other people's homes and you wont get shot. It really is quite simple.

I get that. And that in general is a valid point. But at the same time I feel that this type of comment in context of this particular case takes the onus off the worse crime.

Which is the worse crime? A B&E with no weapons looking for cash and pills? Or shooting two people intentionally, with finishing shots after the threat has been stopped?

I'd argue the latter is worse. Self-defense needs to be held to a much higher standard than this. (Not saying it isn't in this thread, just saying in general. Cause some may look at this case and use it later as an example of why self-defense in the home is bad in general)

 

[LostCaress]

So someone breaking into your home is not a threat now? I agree his actions in total were not acceptable, but defending your home against an invasion is not murder. I agree 100% that they were no longer a threat after the first shot, but when someone breaks into your home, they are a threat to your safety.

Someone in your house is a threat. You can kill such an intruder in self defense.

However, let's say I want to kill someone. I'm a sociopath and I've always wanted to kill someone. Even though I'm rich and can buy a house wherever I want but I specifically choose a house in a state with strong laws protecting homeowners , in a neighbourhood with a lot of break ins(I research that data). I buy guns, I prepare my house so that it's actually easier and less messy to kill such an intruder. I pretend to leave the house, but stay, waiting for someone to kill.

An intruder comes, is armed, and I kill him.

Is this self defense? Am I completely exempt of any blame? Should I be able to remain in the general population?

(the details of this specific case are different, but in some aspects more horrifying)

 

[Dunedain_Ranger]

Damn man re listening to that audio listening to the girl die is depressing.
Also at the same time I thought the double tap happened within like shoot her then wait like a minute or two not right away like he did.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Damn man re listening to that audio listening to the girl die is depressing.
Also at the same time I thought the double tap happened within like shoot her then wait like a minute or two not right away like he did.

No way am I gonna listen to that...terrible

 

[TS-08]

This is out of context of what I was saying. I am not defending this guy in this case, just making the argument about a house looking like no one is home as an excuse to break in. If you make poor choices, bad things can happen.

No one has said it is an excuse to the break in. The teenagers were guilty of a crime regardless. But that doesn't mean he didn't plan for, and intend to kill, anyone who broke into his house. The fact that he may not have known who they were shouldn't matter. You don't think a person can commit first degree murder by planning to kill a total stranger, such as someone who just has the misfortune of being at a particular place, at a particular time, of the killer's choosing? The only thing you are left with is that he did it in his home, against would-be thieves. Why does that mean his actions in preparing his house for these killings are any less appropriate for a first degree charge? Do you just simply think no one can commit a premeditated murder in their own home against someone who breaks in, no matter the circumstance?

 

[Juicy Bob]

I don't quite understand why they felt it was necessary to release the audio of the murders into the public domain.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I don't quite understand why they felt it was necessary to release the audio of the murders into the public domain.

I assumed someone in the press must have just requested it, and it was released. One of the news sites also showed pictures of crime scene photos laid out over tables. Nothing graphic, but it does say the jurors did see pictures of the victims, but it wasn't clear if those were just laid out there for the press to see too. If so, there are probably pictures of the dead victims out there.

 

[speculawyer]

Change the law back. Stop letting psychopaths write your laws.

Then people won't think they can get away with murder, and deadly force will require justification.

Well, we have to stop people from voting for politicians willing to enact these laws that encourage psychopaths.

Perhaps it will take the deaths of these teens and several more before people realize they have gone too far.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't quite understand why they felt it was necessary to release the audio of the murders into the public domain.

Court proceedings are a matter of public record. Transparency is critical for reducing corruption.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Well that recording made this an open and shut case. He might have got away with just killing the dude, murdering the girl and apologizing about the gun jam while she cried really proves he's a fucking psycho

 

[Shuggah_Daddy]

man listening to that was rough...wow

I mean I know they broke in most likely looking to rob the guy's home, but jesus did he really need to shoot the girl three times in the fucking head? Listening to him as he shot her is all I needed to hear to determine how insane this guy is. Glad he got life. Sad shit.

 

[twobear]

I just simply disagree that he made his home more enticing to break into.

Well he clearly disagrees with you, here

 

[Zero Hero]

Sean Hannity is defending this guy so you know he's a real piece of shit. Hannity is the champion of pieces of shit.

 

[Ferrio]

man listening to that was rough...wow

I mean I know they broke in most likely looking to rob the guy's home, but jesus did he really need to shoot the girl three times in the fucking head? Listening to him as he shot her is all I needed to hear to determine how insane this guy is. Glad he got life. Sad shit.

Probably spent those hours after the murder jacking off to the act.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I just simply disagree that he made his home more enticing to break into.

Well he clearly disagrees with you, here

Hows makeemsayuhjr gonna disagree when it was the goal of the homeowner to make his home look appealing to the robbers so they could therefore walk into the prepared scenario, with the homeowner in wait?

That was the goal, and it was successful.

 

[The Lamonster]

Well that recording made this an open and shut case. He might have got away with just killing the dude, murdering the girl and apologizing about the gun jam while she cried really proves he's a fucking psycho

I'm pretty sure he was sarcastically apologizing about shooting her. Which makes him an even bigger asshole.

 

[Morgoth]

This is all we have been talking about in Minnesota. It's funny listening to family argue about whether he was guilty or not. Once the audio clip was released everyone in my family agreed he was a sick SOB and guilty. This is my first post by the way. I want to say Hi.

 

[The Lamonster]

This is all we have been talking about in Minnesota. It's funny listening to family argue about whether he was guilty or not. Once the audio clip was released everyone in my family agreed he was a sick SOB and guilty. This is my first post by the way. I want to say Hi.

Welcome!

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I'm pretty sure he was sarcastically apologizing about shooting her. Which makes him an even bigger asshole.

Nah, you hear the gun jam, that is what he's apologizing for. He was still being sarcastic, though, obviously. He's a sick fuck who was taking pleasure in killing his prey and laughing at her as she cried for help.

Interesting little note as well, he straight up lied to police about how this played out originally:

Though Kifer was "already hurting," she let out a short laugh, Smith told investigators. He then pulled out his .22-caliber revolver and shot her several times in the chest, according to the complaint.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Smith told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

He apparently confused "laugh" with "screamed out in horror and pain." Can't believe he used a little 22 also. They'll certainly kill you, but not quick. You hear her still screaming for a second even after the fourth shot. Piece of shit probably didn't want to use anything larger and risk damaging his property.

 

[hitsugi]

Listening to the audio is horrible. Surreal.

I made the mistake of doing this today... I felt ill for a bit afterward. The way the girl pleaded for a brief second while she was being repeatedly shot.. I really hate my own curiosity sometimes.

He apparently confused "laugh" with "screamed out in horror and pain." Can't believe he used a little 22 also. They'll certainly kill you, but not quick. You hear her still screaming for a second even after the fourth shot. Piece of shit probably didn't want to use anything larger and risk damaging his property.

I'm pretty certain she says "I'm sorry!" in there.

 

[hipbabboom]

Intent matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Z_2oU9B2o

This is the sound of a woman who wants to defend herself and family.

Reading some of the comments on YouTube regarding this story, it almost seems like people understand "Gun Control" to mean not allowing anyone to own guns.

 

[Downhome]

Dateline on NBC is coming on and I think it's about this case. The description says "A 64-year-old man is charged with murder after shooting two unarmed teenagers who broke into his home."

Just a heads up if any of you care.

 

[paulsonj72]

Sorry to post on a thread almost 2 years old but there has been recent news on this case. The Minnesota State Supreme Court heard the appeal of the c are and rejected the appeal thus affirming the jury verdict. As a result there will be no new trial and Smith remains in prison sentenced to life terms for the 2 counts of 1st degree murder. And for those who wonder in Minnesota ALL 1st degree murder convictions are automatically appealed to the State supreme Court bypassing the intermediate court of appeals allowing for faster decisions to be be made in these cases and having them disposed of quicker.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I am okay with this news.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Yeah, dude is definitely a murderer.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Guy's a psychopath. Good news that he will remain behind bars.

 

[Kountry]

Can't say that I am sad to hear this, or surprised. The guy was off his rocker taking it as far as he did.

 

[Dennis]

Good news. What a psycho.

 

[xxracerxx]

Well deserved to not get his appeal.