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[Squirrel Killer]

The car back-fired, least that's what the investigation says, and the cops thought they were being shot at and fired into the car when it stopped. However cops were on both sides of the car so the cops on one side thought they were being shot at by the people in the car when actually the cops on the other side were shooting through the car. So at one point the cops were shooting at each other through the car.

They people in the car weren't armed.

Here's how a Wikipedia article frames the situation:

An officer witnessed a vehicle drive by at a high rate of speed and reported that a gun was shot in his direction. That officer began pursuit and called for backup. Multiple officers in at least 30 patrol cars pursued a vehicle driven by Russell, and in which Williams was a passenger. After 22 miles of fleeing, their vehicle was blocked in the rear of a school. Russell then rammed a patrol car and drove towards an officer on foot. At that point 13 officers fired 137 rounds striking Russell 23 times and Williams 24 times.

From that description, a completely innocent car problem caused the police to completely overreact, but it wasn't the backfiring that led them to open fire.

My understanding of the case:

• Victims' car backfired near police headquarters, is mistaken for gunshot
• On hearing 'gunshot', 20-minute pursuit begins
• At the end of pursuit, victims are boxed into a parking lot
• Due to 'gunshot', it is presumed victims were armed and dangerous
• Police open fire. Zero chance to surrender given.
• After initial volley, officer goes above and beyond, jumping onto the hood of the two victim's car and fire an extra 15 shots to confirm kills
• Only one officer is charged with manslaughter i.e. the court has to determine if this one, single officer in particular was responsible for the deaths of the victims

According Wiki, there a "Victims rammed a police car and drove toward police office on foot." between "Due to 'gunshot...'" and "Police open fire."

 

[TheJLC]

.

 

[Valhelm]

How can a judge be an idiot? I don't understand how someone so detached from reality can land a job like that.

They're probably not an idiot, but were just unwilling to convict a murderous cop.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Guess a new strategy for the cops now. Just shoot dozens of times and then it can't be determined who fired the fatal shot therefore everyone walks.

/thread

 

[JoeyJungle]

Apparently it was only the 15 bullets that he fired from the hood of the car that was on fire, and the prosecution was required to prove that those specific bullets were the cause of death. That seems super odd.

 

[evanmisha]

They're probably not an idiot, but were just unwilling to convict a murderous cop.

You say potato

 

[djplaeskool]

Guess a new strategy for the cops now. Just shoot dozens of times and then it can't be determined who fired the fatal shot therefore everyone walks.

Too Many Cooks Bullets

 

[sonicmj1]

I'm assuming what the judge means is that there were a lot of shots fired prior to these cops shooting the extra 15 times. Therefore, there is no way to prove their shots specifically killed the civilians.

Guess a new strategy for the cops now. Just shoot dozens of times and then it can't be determined who fired the fatal shot therefore everyone walks.

It only works in this case because the cops were "justified" in shooting. That's why the other 12 police officers weren't charged with anything. The car backfired, so the officers were said to have enough cause to believe that the people in the car were armed, allowing the use of deadly force. This officer was only charged for the shots fired from the hood of the car.

If the shooting wasn't justified, then the police would be acting with the same illegal intent and they could all be charged. It wouldn't matter when the bullets landed.

 

[NihonTiger90]

There was a charge of Felonious Assault based on him jumping on the car. And they found him Not Guilty even then.

Actually, the judge said he was guilty of it but the charge was dismissed due to legal reasons (I wanted to say some sort of legal immunity but I didn't catch the reasoning)

 

[guek]

I agree with the verdict but not the charges. There was extraordinary excessive force based on the way the article and wikipedia frame the scenario. Why did the victims run in the first place? Why were the officers so on edge? It feels like there's a lot of information missing.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I'm not sure which is more mind boggling

The fact that the guy was acquitted on what basically amounts to bullshit after firing 15 shots into the car while standing on the hood

or

The fact that pretty much no one within the justice system disputes the other 122 shots fired by a dozen other officers were justifiable.

I mean after 122 shots into a car I don't think anyone is living through that. They all should have been on trial. It shouldn't matter who landed the fatal shots.

 

[Pagusas]

Here's how a Wikipedia article frames the situation:

From that description, a completely innocent car problem caused the police to completely overreact, but it wasn't the backfiring that led them to open fire.


According Wiki, there a "Victims rammed a police car and drove toward police office on foot." between "Due to 'gunshot...'" and "Police open fire."

Well that clears it up, who ever those 2 guys were, they were the idiots, first by running from police, then by using their vehical as a weapon to ram the police. They had 2 chances to come out of this alive, instead their own stupidity killed them, you can't blame the officers at all for opening fire on a ramming vehical.

I do not believe anyone in this thread would think they'd come out alive if they tried to ram police with their vehical after a chase.

However, jumping on the hood is insane and sounds like the officer went in a rage, which means he needs to be removed from the force and have his gun rights taken away.

 

[NihonTiger90]

I'm not sure which is more mind boggling

The fact that the guy was acquitted on what basically amounts to bullshit after firing 15 shots into the car while standing on the hood

or

The fact that pretty much no one within the justice system disputes the other 122 shots fired by a dozen other officers were justifiable.

I mean after 122 shots into a car I don't think anyone is living through that. They all should have been on trial. It shouldn't matter who landed the fatal shots.

Yep, and the local NAACP chairman is on TV saying as much.

 

[BokehKing]

His bullets may not have killed but he took it to the level it should never have went to

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Actually, the judge said he was guilty of it but the charge was dismissed due to legal reasons (I wanted to say some sort of legal immunity but I didn't catch the reasoning)

You're right. It seemed to boil down to "cop gonna cop".

Also, the judge held off on announcing the verdict until today. He waited until the last day of school for the Cleveland Metropolitan School District, which was yesterday. He waited until a nice long weekend. It was, as a logistical plan, a good strategy for chaos control.

 

[J10]

The message they're sending couldn't be any clearer.

 

[TheJLC]

.

 

[astroturfing]

are there any cases in other so-called civilized countries where suspects have been shot more than 10 times? i don't know of any taking place here in Finland at least.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

wait...this whole thing started because of a car backfiring? Did i read that right or did the shooting happen because of a backfire?

 

[Black Republican]

America is basically saying eradicate all blacks = no more annoying racism claims from blacks

 

[Slayven]

why do the DA and Judges come out with those "we won't be bullied into giving justice" speeches?

The system is rigged, you guys win, can you not spit WCW shoots?

 

[TheJLC]

wait...this whole thing started because of a car backfiring? Did i read that right or did the shooting happen because of a backfire?

Started because of one. Police tried to stop the car, a chase ensued. When police cornered the car, they tried to run over a cop. Police fired. Then one cop decides to run to the hood of the car and fire and extra 15 shots.

 

[Cagey]

How many clips does it take to fire 49 shots with a a standard issue sidearm? At least 5 right? Meaning he reloaded four times? For fuck's sake.

 

[Pagusas]

wait...this whole thing started because of a car backfiring? Did i read that right or did the shooting happen because of a backfire?

It started because a car drove fast past a police station, backfired, an officer thought it was a gun shoot and pursued, and the suspects did not pull over their car, instead leading cops on a 20+ minute car chase.

 

[wildfire]

It started because a car drove fast past a police station, backfired, an officer thought it was a gun shoot and pursued, and the suspects did not pull over their car, instead leading cops on a 20+ minute car chase.

Clearly justified.

 

[Darksol]

#notallcops #notalljudges

/s

Absolutely sickening.

 

[RS4-]

Should've fucking locked up every single cop involved with this.

 

[Pagusas]

Clearly justified.

Not yielding to an officer? (Was the officer just suppose to stop pursuit after a vehical failed to stop on orders?) Starting a car chase? Using your vehical to ram officers?

It's sad anyone died but why are we acting like these guys aren't to blame. It doesn't matter who you are if a police offer tried to pull you over and you refuse, you will start a police chase. If you they get you to stop and you try to ram them/run them over, they will kill you.

Should've fucking locked up every single cop involved with this.

The hell? Are people not reading? These people started a police chase then tried to run over officers. As another poster said most officers showed restraint.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I'd like to see someone seriously defend the officer that shot from the hood of the car.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I'd like to see someone seriously defend the officer that shot from the hood of the car.

Look up..

 

[Saint Gregory]

Should I be shocked or not shocked that there are people willing to accept without question the cops version of events that lead to this shooting? The same cops that later refuse to testify and take the 5th.

OK.

 

[sensui-tomo]

If the people tried to run over police officers, well we all know how that will turn up, but in the case of someone going to the top of the car for overkill, thats on them and they should loose their job. I'm still looking for all the facts in this story, but at the moment i have,
Someone's car backfired, police thought it was gun, Car never pulled over (why???), Turns into police chase, Car tries to run over cops and rams other police vehicles (this is the part i want evidence for), cops retaliate by shooting car, car eventually stops due to bullets in drivers, car stops, Some rambo dumbass gets on top of the car and shoots more bullets from above...(This part is bullshit but it sounds like what happened and this officer deserves to loose his job)
And all officers plead the Fifth (because the moment one good officer rats out the bad officer/s, the rest gang up on him and make him loose his job making the police force a toxic job)

 

[Dusk Golem]

So... What did the guys do to be leading a vehicle chase in the first place to put the police so on edge? I didn't notice any mention of why these guys were running from the police in the first place, that might help explain a bit more at least what was going on? Engine near the station? But if that's the case, why didn't they pull over and have the whole thing worked out?

 

[sonicmj1]

Not yielding to an officer? (Was the officer just suppose to stop pursuit after a vehical failed to stop on orders?) Starting a car chase? Using your vehical to ram officers?

It's sad anyone died but why are we acting like these guys aren't to blame. It doesn't matter who you are if a police offer tried to pull you over and you refuse, you will start a police chase. If you they get you to stop and you try to ram them/run them over, they will kill you.

With the weak case the prosecutors brought before the judge, I can see why there was no conviction for this cop.

But let's not pretend this chase and its results were anything other than a complete fiasco for the Cleveland Police Department. There were sixty-two police cars involved in the chase before it ended in a hail of gunfire. Five police supervisors involved with the chase have been charged with dereliction of duty, and for damn good reason.

And considering the Department of Justice investigation of Cleveland's police (which started in the aftermath of this incident) found that "investigators conducting reviews admitted that their goal was to paint the accused officers in the most positive light," and that the police officers in this incident reported that shots were being fired by the people in the vehicle during the chase even though they had no gun, and I'm at least a little skeptical of their story.

 

[Kurdel]

What a ridiculous story, fucking joke of a police force.

Two scenarios:

a) Cleveland police force can curve bullets

b) The bullets came from above

They were sitting in the car, so maybe they ducked for cover, or we shot while slumped over dead.

 

[Big Baybee]

Just another day...

 

[YoungFa]

Didn't proscecution provide any evidence as of which bullets killed the victims, which then could be traced back to the gun and therefore the shooting officer? Did the proscecution just go in pinning it on the dude who unleashed the most lead, hoping they could stick it to him on a statistical chance?

Should they have proscecuted all officers on lesser but provable charges, increasing the chance of actually convicting anyone?

 

[wildfire]

Not yielding to an officer? (Was the officer just suppose to stop pursuit after a vehical failed to stop on orders?) Starting a car chase? Using your vehical to ram officers?

It's sad anyone died but why are we acting like these guys aren't to blame. It doesn't matter who you are if a police offer tried to pull you over and you refuse, you will start a police chase. If you they get you to stop and you try to ram them/run them over, they will kill you.



The hell? Are people not reading? These people started a police chase then tried to run over officers. As another poster said most officers showed restraint.

They didn't show restraint. 65 car manhunt is anything but an egregious use of resources. Who were the witnesses to this ramming incident? The murderers only?

 

[USC-fan]

Article seems poorly writen. It wrote like he stood on the hood and shot 49 times or whatever when it was only a single clip on the hood.

 

[Crosseyes]

No justice, no peace.

Stay safe those in Cleveland and for those who have the drive, stay strong and fight on.

 

[Foffy]

Fucking gross. How can anyone take our ascribed justice system sincerely?

I am left almost speechless that considering the fucking VOLUME of rounds fired that the "we don't know if any of these were lethal" came into fucking play.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Now I wonder if there is a similar case where if multiple people were all charged with murder when they all unloaded their guns except for giving the one guy giving the "fatal shot" the murder charge and the others something less severe.

I'd like to see someone seriously defend the officer that shot from the hood of the car.

Too late.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

That quote from the fucking lawyer:

"unprofessional and vicious" attack on a police officer.

He just defended a guy who sprayed 49 bullets (alongside his other aggressive and dumb police force) to passengers who were unarmed. No fucking words.

If the people tried to run over police officers, well we all know how that will turn up, but in the case of someone going to the top of the car for overkill, thats on them and they should loose their job. I'm still looking for all the facts in this story, but at the moment i have,
Someone's car backfired, police thought it was gun, Car never pulled over (why???), Turns into police chase, Car tries to run over cops and rams other police vehicles (this is the part i want evidence for), cops retaliate by shooting car, car eventually stops due to bullets in drivers, car stops, Some rambo dumbass gets on top of the car and shoots more bullets from above...(This part is bullshit but it sounds like what happened and this officer deserves to loose his job)
And all officers plead the Fifth (because the moment one good officer rats out the bad officer/s, the rest gang up on him and make him loose his job making the police force a toxic job)

Pretty much where I'm at with this but it's just more apparent to me that cops can't stay levelheaded enough during this to actually disable the damn car. I get they can't shoot a gun out of someone's hands in a tense situation, but can't they shoot out tires?? Or is the target too difficult as well?

 

[Javaman]

Was the one that jumped on the hood the cop that they tried to run over?

 

[Easy_D]

I'm gonna be fair here even though I hate the decision and wish he was in jail.

They got shot over 130 times by a bunch of different cops and during the case they were never able to prove his actual bullets did the actual killing.

So that's the next tactic. Everyone fire like mad, prosecution can't prove who shot the killing bullet, everyone walks!

 

[Jmanunknown]

Fucking gross. How can anyone take our ascribed justice system sincerely?

You cannot really the justice system is a joke and should be fixed but it will not be fixed. If your poor or a minority expect to have the weight of the system stacked against you and if your a poor minority(especially a poor black male) you almost have little to no chance when it comes to the justice system.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Okay, so two people commit the crime of using an old car, which makes the entire police force start chasing them around like an instant 5 star wanted level, and people are wondering why they didn't behave in a rational way? If I was black, with the way things are, I'd probably take my chances with a car chase.

 

[xerneas]

According Wiki, there a "Victims rammed a police car and drove toward police office on foot." between "Due to 'gunshot...'" and "Police open fire."

that would certainly change the way this incident is viewed, although i can't find a source other than wikipedia (which really doesn't even qualify as a "source") that states that the victims' car first rammed a cop car, then targeted on foot police officers, before the shooting started.

 

[Indicate]

Article seems poorly writen. It wrote like he stood on the hood and shot 49 times or whatever when it was only a single clip on the hood.

Williams, 30, and Russell, 43, were boxed into a middle-school parking lot when 13 Cleveland police officers fired 137 shots into the car in an 18-second volley. Brelo fired the most – 49 shots total – including 15 at the end of the barrage while standing on the hood of the car, aiming at the pair through the windshield. Even though a dozen other officers fired 88 bullets into the car, only Brelo was charged

.
seems pretty clear to me

Edit: Never mind my mistake, used control f to find this quote as i remembered reading it.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

What the fuck