Buddha Beam
Banned
I figured this was coming earlier this week when the Cleveland PD were talking about closing streets off, doing outreach to various gangs about maintaining calm, etc.
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Cleveland officer not guilty over deaths of two people shot at 137 times by police
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Holy fucking shit. For frame of reference, that's roughly triple the number of cop cars in this scene from Blues Brothers, which is supposed to be over-the-top:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMagP52BWG8&t=2m50s
SMH Cleveland.
michaelius
Banned
Is there any explanation why 20 minute car chase happened ?
Technoweirdo
Member
I see, thanks. I guess lethal force would be deemed acceptable then even after the boxing and that the officer at most should've been charged with excessive force? Though I'm not sure how you can get more excessive once you open fire.
Would be best to look at the official report (Dunno where I'd find it) to validate the ramming allegation, but it was mentioned in this Huffington Post article released a few weeks after the incident.
They had previous convictions, so that'd probably be a good reason to run. They were also high as a kite according to an autopsy, so doing the best thing, stopping, probably wasn't on mind.
Now, why it took 20 minutes and 62 vehicles? Beats me. >.>
sensui-tomo
Member
I myself dont know much about how to deal with a high speed pursuit, but i'm sure shooting the tires out isnt a good idea (only because if you have a shitty shooter, someone accidentally shoots a gas tank(if that actually happens, I dont know if mythbusters proved if shooting a gas tank would cause it to explode or not) but having those road blocks with tire shredders should have been an idea, Basically, if someone proves that the victims Rammed into police cars/ drive into officers I wont feel as sad for their loss (trying to take another life is never the answer and why they never pulled over), But this definitely could have been dealt better by the police.. still going ontop of a car and shooting downwards is fucking stupid... (if that happened, theres too much info around to know whats true and what isnt true... I dont want to eat crow, so i reserve my judgement,)
PixalTheCat
Banned
Just another day in America where police can murder innocent people.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Is it sad to say I'm not surprised?
sensui-tomo
Member
If they never pulled over and rammed into police vehicles and tried to run over a cop on foot, they are far from innocent. Cops still in the wrong for way over the top excessive force.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Kind of mixed on this. Seems a really unfortunate series of events. The backfire, then the 20m chase.
I'm curious why just this officer was singled out for charges. Certainly not justifying him jumping on the window, but when they have that many officers shooting how could they ever prove this one officer was responsible for their death.
Still wondering what prompted the shooting after the car stopped. Was there another backfire of the car?
I'm curious why just this officer was singled out for charges. Certainly not justifying him jumping on the window, but when they have that many officers shooting how could they ever prove this one officer was responsible for their death.
Still wondering what prompted the shooting after the car stopped. Was there another backfire of the car?
The driver rammed a cop car then drove towards an officer.
adamsappel
Member
Are there any crime scene diagrams? I'm curious how close their car was that they "drove towards officers on foot" to represent a danger but were far enough away that cops could just unload hundreds of shots without shooting each other. Did the car roll to a stop? Did the cop leaping onto the hood put himself in the line of friendly fire?
Crimson_Gold
Member
You're too late for that.
I'm not surprised by the verdict or the lack of empathy by some. People don't understand how terrified many in the black community are of the police. The idea that they kept going after 60+ cars followed them isn't that surprising.
Syph Medwes
Member
Someone who actually read the article. Or someone that understands there's a difference between being guilty of something and being guilty of something in a court of law where the burden of proof is different from a random web forum where a vast majority read the title of a thread and post without further deliberation.
Doesn't make it right, but one would hope it would temper the sensationalism.
There is another older thread here. One officer climbed on the hood and shot 15 bullets through the windshield. It's all in the link...
Big Baybee
Member
Is there footage of them ramming police cars and trying to run over cops? Should be......
BertramCooper
Banned
Loretta Lynch needs to go nuclear on the Cleveland PD.
here's the parking lot where the car was cornered before the shooting - https://www.google.com/maps/@41.530101,-81.575774,3a,21.4y,231.55h,89.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFfyozkmydsL51a95SX3oqA!2e0
aerial view - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heritage+Middle+School/@41.5293158,-81.5768089,154m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830fc211ac8e4e5:0x49061ffc537cb59c!6m1!1e1
the parking lot measures 190 ft x 170 ft, so it's fairly small, especially given the amount of police vehicles that were present. it's likely that the cops formed a line or semi-circle around the victims' car, which is why they didn't get hit from any cross fire.
a CNN article explains the judicial rationale behind the decision -
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/23/us/cleveland-police-verdict/
basically, they say that the first round of gunfire was permissible, given the information the officers were given at the time (the now inaccurate claim that the victims were armed) coupled with the aggressive nature of the victims' car in the parking lot.
they state that since the victims were shot from numerous individuals, it therefore cannot be legally proven that brelo's bullets were the actual bullets that led to the death of the victims.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
If that's what's considered within cops' legal rights, then clearly the law was built against black people.
As if US History hasn't said exactly that millions of times.
As if US History hasn't said exactly that millions of times.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I can understand the ruling. I just can't understand the underlying justice system where a verdict like can be the outcome given the circumstances of what happened. Come on America.
Sort your fucking selves out.
Sort your fucking selves out.
If people can defend 137 shots and a cop jumping on a hood and unloading 49 rounds into someone unarmed. as a black man I truly fear for my life.
The fact that this judge said it was the officers "constitutional right" is jarring and absurd to me. Just add an amendments to the constitution that reads if and officer "says" he fears for his life he's allowed to kill unarmed black men.
The fact that this judge said it was the officers "constitutional right" is jarring and absurd to me. Just add an amendments to the constitution that reads if and officer "says" he fears for his life he's allowed to kill unarmed black men.
Its not black people its criminals.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Again, history says otherwise. Current, and past.
EDIT: Though ironically you may be right. It is built to be inhumane to criminals. Which is a great reason why black people are pigeonholed into becoming criminals systematically and historically. Out of sight and mind.
ShadowKingpin
Member
I just got this reply from a "friend" regarding the matter:
I'm just going to walk away.
I'm just going to walk away.
Mrs. Manky
Banned
There is a group of protesters marching downtown down Lakeside. They crossed over to the highway (I think route 2) and blocked it off both ways standing in a row.
And then the helicopter camera feed stopped and cut to a yellow screen. If anyone can direct me to a new feed, please let me know.
And then the helicopter camera feed stopped and cut to a yellow screen. If anyone can direct me to a new feed, please let me know.
i think it's important to look at this occurrence in the proper temporal and informational contexts.
if you were hanging out with your friends in some parking lot, and a car suddenly rammed into one of your friends' cars and then targeted them, would you consider that to be a threat to your own personal safety, or to the safety of your friends?
the officers were under the assumption that the victims were armed, and they had just been led on a 20 mile chase. when the victims' car showed an act of aggression, the officers responded in a way that most of us would probably respond if were were put in that situation.
this is truly an unfortunate tragedy though, as we know now, the victims weren't armed, and apparently were quite high as well - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/timothy-russell-malissa-williams-cocaine_n_2553017.html. this is probably why they fled from the police for so long, and probably why they rammed an officers vehicle. they didn't have any type of malicious intent, they were just high.
unfortunately, though, it was impossible for the officers to have known this at the time. in a court of law, a prosecutor would have a tough time trying to prove that brelo's bullets were the specific bullets that killed the victims, when the victims where hit with dozens of other lethal shots. if we scale back, the prosecutor would then have a tough time proving the police were acting malevolently, given the information that was known to them at the time, and given that the victims' car has just rammed and targeted an officer.
a truly unfortunate situation all around.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Ah yes. This always comes up. Stating other issues does not remove the issue at hand. This is deflection in its purest form.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
...
I'll be staying out of the country for the foreseeable future
I'll be staying out of the country for the foreseeable future
Aeternus Malum
Member
It's not funny, in fact, it's really scary, as a black man.
But I couldn't help but let out a laugh. You can't possibly be THIS stupid. I'm gonna say corruption.
hydragonwarrior
Member
But shouldn't cops be training their minds to respond more appropriately? I mean, I don't want cops to be just another citizen with a gun. I want them to be able to be level headed enough to respond in moments of aggression without a hail of gunfire.
I want the cops we pay for to NOT be the same as another average joe with the gun. Otherwise we might as well arm ourselves and call ourselves police.
The simple answer is, "those people go to jail."
i certainly feel that police abuse their powers almost routinely (i know from personal experience), so i certainly don't praise officers as if they're all benevolent protectors. however, given the situation, and given what the officers knew at the time, what would have constituted an appropriate reaction?
i often try to imagine how i would react in situations such as this. if i were driving to class, and had just parked my car, gotten out, and suddenly witnessed someone ramming into my car, and then coming after me - what would i do? if i had a gun, would i shoot? would i run? could i even run from a car coming after me?
if someone immediately provided me with information that the person driving that car was armed, would that change how i would react in the heat of the moment?
we know now, of course, that the victims weren't armed, and were acting that way due to the fact that they were high, but this information wasn't known to the officers at the time, unfortunately.
CrimsonCommie
Member
Wow and the judge actually tried to call this a civilized society.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Trying to hit someone with a car is considered assault with a deadly weapon. It would be nice if the story had more details like if that actually happened.
The CNN article only mentions the car ramming another car.
The eventual civil suit probably isnt going to go in the cop's favor unless they can prove that the deceased were trying to hit the officer.
The CNN article only mentions the car ramming another car.
The eventual civil suit probably isnt going to go in the cop's favor unless they can prove that the deceased were trying to hit the officer.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Perhaps had other officers not taken the 5th, we'd have more details
Let me rephrase:
They approve of cops killing unarmed black people. So they don't convict them. It's prejudice, not idiocy.
Yeah, that's bs that they can do that. As witnesses they should be required to testify.
Do you know how hard it is to coordinate 100 people trying to tell the same lie?
sensui-tomo
Member
Pleading the fifth sucks, means we wont get any information. (on a side note it makes me think of that skit with Dave Chappelle) Basically cops messed up, and the only way I can see this as a lesser issue is if we could know without a doubt that the vehicle was being used at a point to harm police. so all in all , I reserve judgement for the victims until we know what happened, but the cops messed up with those extra over excessive bullets.
Sequence Six
Member
Oh, please.
Attack the event itself, the response by police, the method of the prosecution, absolutely. Protest everything that happened that day and that the cops are allowed to act as they do. But with what was placed in front of the judge, and the burden of proof necessary, how do you say that this specific cop is guilty of manslaughter?
The cops are entrenched in a secure position and the prosecution didn't do much to attack that. This was a pretty weak and not very aggressive case put in front of the judge.
If they're all a part of the same organization with a history of looking out for their own, then it's not very hard at all.
Bout to join you brah if I can make it
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