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[Skyzard]

I assume CrowbCat is exaggerating the connectivity issues, right? I've watched a lot of streams of this game and the online seemed fine. It can't be worse than past Gears games use of P2P.

Yep, just watch a stream, 99% of the time it's fine.


I still want dedicated servers for 4v4 (and possibly larger game modes) but if you like what you see, I recommend it!

Some people with likely non-optimal NAT are having more issues connecting than others though. Usually connecting to the 4v4 mode gives them more trouble than duels and brawls.

 

[E-flux]

A proper peer system for 1v1 maybe, maybe 2v2 might work but the excuse of it's a fighting game went down the toilet when Ubisoft decided to market 4v4 as the true game mode.

Bonus clip: at 15 minute mark https://youtu.be/OA8xrgLqQZ8

The marketing doesn't matter, Dominion the 4v4 mode is easily the best mode to market since it's bombastic and looks pretty good in motion, if anything it would have been a dumb move to focus on the more "slower" paced and sterile environment where there is not that much going on.

 

[Fakeknowledge]

There's always something with Ubisoft, always. Absolute shite. They're the only publisher I won't buy from, I'd have bought this and R6 in a heartbeat if they weren't Ubi games.

 

[UrbanRats]

 

[Kneck]

I didn't encounter any of the issues, that has been addressed by CrowbCat. Got already 50 hours in the game so. Seems exaggerated.

 

[newtypepilot]

ubisoft: as long as the microtransactions still work, it's fine!

 

[Atraveller]

nothing personnel*

 

[xrnzaaas]

Yeah it's a shitty practice, but I don't think it's a widespread problem. A lot of my friends are playing For Honor (almost all of them on PS4) and I haven't heard any serious complaints.

 

[ViviOggi]

Yeah. Disconnects are an intermittent problem, but I've never had (or really even heard of) an issue with actual lag.

*gasp*

was this video edited

with a purpose?

Yeah same, perceptible lag is extremely rare in my experience, including the 4v4 modes. Now the frequent disconnects, plethora of errors and overall embarrassingly awful UX are very real.

 

[wildfire]

https://youtu.be/38sPNZ8QHO4

I haven't played For Honor, but if the issues are half this bad it's certainly a deal breaker for me.

It's not half as bad as it looks.

I've been waiting to upgrade to a Ryzen cpu but I have been watching hours upon hours of For Honor. The waiting for players to synchronize sequence occurs in 2v2s and 4v4s (and obviously more frequently in the latter) but the streamers usually tolerated it and most of the time it didn't bother me seeing it either.


Now the way players were teleporting without the synchro message is something I've never seen and it's not a comment that comes up with the dozen people I have watched play.

That said the demonstration does expose that Ubisoft and many fighting game companies (who pioneered most of these methods Ubisoft is using) were overconfident that peer to peer still couldn't be abused if they did certain things.

That is a serious problem for the long term health of the game and I hope they seriously consider what tools they should be using to prevent this level of abuse.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Lol at people justifying p2p.

Please explain to me how having one player as the host eliminates latency advantage more-so than dedicated servers.

And then the people like, "it hasn't happened to me, must not be a real problem." Game's at a 60% on Steam for a reason.

Fighting games aren't exactly renowned for their online.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Why dedicate resources to dedicated servers when you can let your consumers be the servers and damn the consequences?

 

[wildfire]

Not that I'm arguing for or against, but Smash Bros for WiiU, that is only one of course.

Mortal Kombat 9 says hello.

 

[Gbraga]

Lol at people justifying p2p.

Please explain to me how having one player as the host eliminates latency advantage more-so than dedicated servers.

And then the people like, "it hasn't happened to me, must not be a real problem." Game's at a 60% on Steam for a reason.

This game doesn't use player host netcode, though.

Even in 4v4s.

That's the whole point.

It is worse in 4v4s than 1v1 and 2v2s, for sure, but lag is still not as big of an issue in 4v4 modes as gear stats, feats and all that meme bullshit that will never let me take these modes seriously.

1v1 and 2v2 is where it's at. At least until the competitive modes come out and let us play the 4v4 modes without the RPG crap.

Yeah same, perceptible lag is extremely rare in my experience, including the 4v4 modes. Now the frequent disconnects, plethora of errors and overall embarrassingly awful UX are very real.

Don't know what the hell UX is, but I agree with the rest. I think that people get the impression that when we defend the netcode we're just trying to deflect criticism, but if anything, it's the opposite. There are real issues that should be fixed before they start touching a netcode that works better than other similar games because people who don't even play the game are complaining purely based on it being P2P.

Fix the disconnects, then punish ragequitters once people stop getting randomly disconnected, fix some glitches like the Shugoki unparriable, maybe nerf the Warden a little bit, give us 4v4 modes with no gear stats. All of that will make for a MUCH better experience than changing the way online matches work because of concern trolling.

 

[Peroroncino]

I was struggling with the buy, but then I've watched a review that said it's P2P, NOPED the fuck out it.

Microtransactions already made me kinda sceptic but P2P connection straight up killed my interest in this, which is a shame because I liked alpha.

 

[wildfire]

Fighting games aren't exactly renowned for their online.

...


Are you kidding me?


Any way.

http://mauve.mizuumi.net/2012/07/05/understanding-fighting-game-networking/

 

[ZoddGutts]

Lots of steam reviews hasn't been so kind to this game, main issue about lag and error disconnects.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

P2P makes me completely uninterested in buying the game.

 

[ViviOggi]

This game doesn't use player host netcode, though.

Even in 4v4s.

That's the whole point.

It is worse in 4v4s than 1v1 and 2v2s, for sure, but lag is still not as big of an issue in 4v4 modes as gear stats, feats and all that meme bullshit that will never let me take these modes seriously.

1v1 and 2v2 is where it's at. At least until the competitive modes come out and let us play the 4v4 modes without the RPG crap.



Don't know what the hell UX is, but I agree with the rest. I think that people get the impression that when we defend the netcode we're just trying to deflect criticism, but if anything, it's the opposite. There are real issues that should be fixed before they start touching a netcode that works better than other similar games because people who don't even play the game are complaining purely based on it being P2P.

Fix the disconnects, then punish ragequitters once people stop getting randomly disconnected, fix some glitches like the Shugoki unparriable, maybe nerf the Warden a little bit, give us 4v4 modes with no gear stats. All of that will make for a MUCH better experience than changing the way online matches work because of concern trolling.

User experience. Mainly the convoluted and slow-ass menus copy-pasted straight from Siege (a game infamous for its dreadful menu design) and the utterly embarrassing matchmaking that gives you an error message, throws you back to the menu, stops the queue and changes the mode selection to Dominion whenever it fails. This even happens when it tries to join a game that simply turns out to be full - the player should be seeing none of that in the year of our lord 2017

 

[Strakt]

While some of the things in the video are true.. the only thing its gonna do is get the guy more views. He chose a controversial topic in a popular NEW game and made an over exaggerated 3 min video. He explains lag switches and getting IPs (which barely happen).. but since the video got put out for money and views.. more people will abuse those things. Like someone in the thread said earlier "if someone said this video was fake i'd believe them".

 

[franklyshankly]

Is 4v4 the largest match size? For some reason I thought this game involved large battles, was I seeing single player footage instead?

 

[ViviOggi]

Is 4v4 the largest match size? For some reason I thought this game involved large battles, was I seeing single player footage instead?

Some of the 4v4 modes have AI foot soldiers fighting over certain objectives so it was probably that. The maximum player number is indeed 8.

 

[Gbraga]

User experience. Mainly the convoluted and slow-ass menus copy-pasted straight from Siege (a game infamous for its dreadful menu design) and the utterly embarrassing matchmaking that gives you an error message, throws you back to the menu, stops the queue and changes the mode selection to Dominion whenever it fails. This even happens when it tries to join a game that simply turns out to be full - the player should be seeing none of that in the year of our lord 2017

Oh yeah, the matchmaking is garbage.

Ubi pls.

 

[Kthulhu]

Yeah it's a shitty practice, but I don't think it's a widespread problem. A lot of my friends are playing For Honor (almost all of them on PS4) and I haven't heard any serious complaints.

According to the video description, the in game footage was pulled from 24 other videos. So these issues are common enough to warrant some kind of backlash.

All of the experiences with the multiplayer will be subjective, but P2P has historically caused issues like the ones in this video.

 

[Hasney]

According to the video description, the in game footage was pulled from 24 other videos. So these issues are common enough to warrant some kind of backlash.

All of the experiences with the multiplayer will be subjective, but P2P has historically caused issues like the ones in this video.

24 videos, wow! Now there's a sample size worth getting into!!

As always with Crowbcat, if you find some enjoyment in his videos, it's for entertainment purposes only. There's nothing of substance.

As you say in your OP, if the issues are half that bad... Well it certainly seems from the OT here (a bigger sample than 24) and even the posts in here that it's probably not close to half.

 

[horkrux]

As always with Crowbcat, if you find some enjoyment in his videos, it's for entertainment purposes only. There's nothing of substance.

I wouldn't go that far. It's just these kinds of videos where he has to rely on the experience of other people that are a bit daft.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Lol at people justifying p2p.

Please explain to me how having one player as the host eliminates latency advantage more-so than dedicated servers.

And then the people like, "it hasn't happened to me, must not be a real problem." Game's at a 60% on Steam for a reason.

Fighting games aren't exactly renowned for their online.

Lol at you not understanding networking. Fighting games do not have hosts (at least for the actual gameplay. SFV can fallback to hosts but latency goes to shit). Each player is equal and connects directly to the other. This is P2P. It is not the same as say, a shooter when one player is the host. This is not P2P, but has been mislabelled as such for so long now (by gamers, mostly) that it has become commonly accepted. The downside of this, is there is no longer a distinction between a true P2P setup (like a fighting game) and a client hosted setup, like a shooter without dedicated servers. So everyone gets confused.

Gamers will call anything that doesn't have a dedicated server 'P2P' and it is *always* bad.

 

[Hasney]

I wouldn't go that far. It's just these kinds of videos where he has to rely on the experience of other people that are a bit daft.

Fair enough, they're usually the ones that are posted here anyway. Makes sense, they're certainly the clickbait.

 

[Kthulhu]

24 videos, wow! Now there's a sample size worth getting into!!

As always with Crowbcat, if you find some enjoyment in his videos, it's for entertainment purposes only. There's nothing of substance.

As you say in your OP, if the issues are half that bad... Well it certainly seems from the OT here (a bigger sample than 24) and even the posts in here that it's probably not close to half.

Clearly there is something of substance if over 2 dozen people are having repeated issues, and that's just people with video capture equipment.

How many people are being affected that don't? Not to mention how this has demonstrated how it's insecure and exploitable.

Just because you have had an ideal experience doesn't exempt others from criticizing issues they have experienced.

 

[Hasney]

Clearly there is something of substance if over 2 dozen people are having repeated issues, and that's just people with video capture equipment.

How many people are being affected that don't? Not to mention how this has demonstrated how it's insecure and exploitable.

Just because you have had an ideal experience doesn't exempt others from criticizing issues they have experienced.

People with capture equipment? So everyone with a console or PC. Hell, it's even easier on console than PC these days. If 2 dozen people are having repeated issues, they certainly should speak up and maybe someone who knows what they're talking about can try and get some answers or do more research on how widespread the problem is. Not just hack some videos together from 0.005% of roughly the UK sales alone and hope the clicks roll in.

Hell, if the sample size were 25 and my perfect experience was included, at least I would make up 4% of that sample.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Add me to the sample. I've had very few issues.

 

[JigglesBunny]

The narrative some of you are pushing that P2P networking is still acceptable in 2017 for a multiplayer focused game is insane to me.

The benefit of proper dedicated servers cannot be overstated.

 

[Ducktail]

I tried to play the beta, but couldn't play it due to connectivity issues. I even wen't so far as to portforward and all that shit. Problem is, I have zero issues with other games.

F*** you, Ubi.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

I've had but maybe...2 D/C's and I've never seen anyone lag around me to the severity shown in that video....but maybe I'm just always the host lol.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Fighting games aren't exactly renowned for their online.

Please, tell us more.

 

[ScaryShark]

One of the few videos of his that doesn't seem outright disingenuous or misleading in how he presented it. P2P being in a game like this made it a no buy for my friends and I. Just a frustration I have zero interest in engaging with in 2017.

 

[dab0ne]

I liked the open beta but had a few connection problems so opted out. If you have a game that requires an Internet connection for the single player portion you better have stellar servers.

 

[wowzors]

Played against someone with a lag switch like was shown. Literally takes any fun out of the game, dickhead would turn it off when he was dead but the second he was back up my game becomes a fucking slideshow.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Lol at you not understanding networking. Fighting games do not have hosts (at least for the actual gameplay. SFV can fallback to hosts but latency goes to shit). Each player is equal and connects directly to the other. This is P2P. It is not the same as say, a shooter when one player is the host. This is not P2P, but has been mislabelled as such for so long now (by gamers, mostly) that it has become commonly accepted. The downside of this, is there is no longer a distinction between a true P2P setup (like a fighting game) and a client hosted setup, like a shooter without dedicated servers. So everyone gets confused.

Gamers will call anything that doesn't have a dedicated server 'P2P' and it is *always* bad.

This. And the proper term for player host that has been mislabeled as P2P is "listen servers".

The narrative some of you are pushing that P2P networking is still acceptable in 2017 for a multiplayer focused game is insane to me.

The benefit of proper dedicated servers cannot be overstated.

Which network model do you think is better for a 1v1 game (not saying FH is 1v1). The one with a direct connection to your opponent, or the one where both of you are hopping to a middleman?

 

[inky]

The warping in the video is pretty egregious and in my experience fairly rare. But experiences like that are going to be inevitable due to the nature of people's connections or whatever crud-ass nodes they live near.

However, what is a frequent issue in the game is the consistent amount of resyncing that happens throughout a night. In fact, I had this happen to me last night:

This is beyond horseshit and tied to a network problem in the game that is incredibly common.

(The guy in that gif's teammate ganked me and he walked away.)

No see, this gif is fake. I didn't have any problems in the 20 million hours I've played so you must be lying plus it's a fighting game so it is fine! /every idiot in this thread who thinks their anecdotal evidence proves them right.

 

[darkwing]

haha that ending killed me

 

[Pygrus]

Really like this game, but I'm not buying the game till they fix this stuff.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Ahhh it's like rainbow six all over again

 

[Plumpman]

Surprisingly I've NEVER seen people skip around like that, not once.
I get tons of errors and being booted from the game, but if the game is running its silky smooth. Is this a console vs PC difference? Is there a difference in the online play?

 

[WilsonX100]

This video gave me flasbacks of my pvp encounters in souls games. Except in this case that's the whole game.

souls has more issues than for honor i find

 

[grandwizard]

What is this strange opinion that P2P is fine if it's 1v1? What kind of shit logic is that? High level Quake, UT and other deathmatch games was played 1vs1 for years and P2P would never have been accepted. Dedicated servers have alwyas been the gold standard for fair and stable internet multiplayer.

 

[deoee]

What is this strange opinion that P2P is fine if it's 1v1? What kind of shit logic is that? High level Quake, UT and other deathmatch games was played 1vs1 for years and P2P would never have been accepted. Dedicated servers have alwyas been the gold standard for fair and stable internet multiplayer.

Different pings to the dedicated server give the lower ping player an advantage

 

[wildfire]

What is this strange opinion that P2P is fine if it's 1v1? What kind of shit logic is that?

http://mauve.mizuumi.net/2012/07/05/understanding-fighting-game-networking/

 

[Brandon F]

If it really is that bad, I will never consider buying this game.

 

[Strakt]

If it really is that bad, I will never consider buying this game.

Its not. Don't let this video be a deciding factor.. hes just in it for the publicity / money. Heres the top comment from the For Honor reddit on this video:

"While p2p is a joke, I've literally never experienced anything during any of my games that is being shown in this video.
I've input commands on my controller that I feel like just don't respond sometimes but all that rubber-banding/teleporting in this video, never witnessed it my self."

Like many people have said in this thread, a majority have not come across these problems.. and the video creator is just creating controversy on a heated topic in the gaming community (p2p). What a great way to make money right?