IdreamofHIME
Member
Why recommend a PS1 emulator over PS3 or Vita? What a strange thing to do.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF Retro: Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver - A Classic Revisited on PS1/PC/Dreamcast!
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
I was under the impression Dreamcast had the dynamic music as well?
It wasn't a recommendation just a note. Completely forgot about PS3 and Vita options, though.
In 18 years since I can only think of one game (released last year) that attempts something similar. Possible spoilers.
Titanfall 2
Diablohead
Member
Legacy of Kain was an awesome game, it's how I got into soul reaver because a friend had the game and we played it a lot.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I will listen. I have a slight obsession with this game. Prety awesome choice. Must be smart people runnin that podcast!
John, have you tried playing the PS1 version on an emulator supporting hardware rendering?
Seems to take care of most of problems related to PS1 and 3D, might be worth a look.
Seems to take care of most of problems related to PS1 and 3D, might be worth a look.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Vita is how I 1st played this. Looks beautiful on the Vita screen and mapping the camera to the right analog is perfection.
KainXVIII
Member
Because emulation gives more options to play (and not everyone still have vita/ps3)
What I liked the most about the game was its laberynthic nature compared to, say, most Zelda titles. Areas like the Cathedral were vast and intricate in design, full of secrets (most of them, tokens for the life/magic bars) and optional areas that kept surprising me even after various playthroughs. In that sense the game was influenced by the first two Tomb Raider games, I'd say.
The combat has aged rather poorly but that's something very common with games from that era.
Yeah, it's true that the combat doesn't hold up that well but I still think the ideas are fascinating. I didn't really have time to add it in but I love how they encourage you to use things like spikes, water, sunlight and fire to deal with enemies. When you take damage and lose the reaver in the material plane it forces you to think and use the environment when possible - especially when a melee weapon isn't immediately accessible.
Still, going back to that Lighthouse demo, it's amazing how much better the final combat is. They really refined it in a big way!
TheRazielim
Member
PC version's soundtrack is botched. Not only does it lack the dynamism, the songs play in the wrong fucking places. Completely botches the atmosphere of the first Kain encounter, where you are supposed to hear a version of Ozar Midrashim, while PC version just plays some other ambient track. (Melchiah area music IIRC)
Compare: PSX vs PC
Spoilers ofc.
It's also one of my favorite cutscenes ever. I played it when I was about 7 years old and my English was very, very poor, and I didn't understand almost ANYTHING in the dialogue. But yet I remembered most of the lines from that cutscenes, and could understand the gist of the conversation on the basis of mere acting alone! Fantastic!
Compare: PSX vs PC
Spoilers ofc.
It's also one of my favorite cutscenes ever. I played it when I was about 7 years old and my English was very, very poor, and I didn't understand almost ANYTHING in the dialogue. But yet I remembered most of the lines from that cutscenes, and could understand the gist of the conversation on the basis of mere acting alone! Fantastic!
Rei dos Vermes
Member
It needs some tinkering to run with proper widescreen resolutions, but with a little effort you can make SR2 look pretty good. Here's a video I recorded a while ago running the game at 1080p with Reshade effects: https://youtu.be/f6fOG_NLW7A
TheRazielim
Member
Also, check out the presentation mentioned in the video with Kurt Harland. Really fascinating stuff. SR2 was considered a failure, after all! Done under terrible crunch and apparently ruined people's lives, even.
how is it on the PS3? Any noticeable performance issues/improvements?
I'm thinking about buying it for my PS3. I've bought all the Legacy of Kain games some time ago on a Steam sale but never finished Soul Reaver 1 because the port was atrocious, could not even map the controls to my dual shock 3 at the time.
I'm thinking about buying it for my PS3. I've bought all the Legacy of Kain games some time ago on a Steam sale but never finished Soul Reaver 1 because the port was atrocious, could not even map the controls to my dual shock 3 at the time.
Mama Robotnik
Member
I just wanted to thank John for getting in contact and inviting me to be involved in this. It was a pleasure! I don't normally speak my work out loud - I'm certainly not as well paced and as clear as John and have never done anything like this before - but I'm very glad I did!
Thanks for the nice comments about my work from people here by the way. I know I don't post often any more due to various commitments, but its really great to see my research threads are remembered!
I'd strongly advise people who liked the video to listen to the additional podcast - its a great conversation with Ben Lincoln, who knows a tremendous amount about the series and some of the technologies that went into it, and I learned quite a bit from it!
Thanks for the nice comments about my work from people here by the way. I know I don't post often any more due to various commitments, but its really great to see my research threads are remembered!
I'd strongly advise people who liked the video to listen to the additional podcast - its a great conversation with Ben Lincoln, who knows a tremendous amount about the series and some of the technologies that went into it, and I learned quite a bit from it!
Personal history with the franchise... my mother wouldn't let me play M-rated games, but the initial release of Soul Reaver wasn't rated "M"... it was rated "T", and reissues altered it to an M-rating.
As such, Soul Reaver was the first M-rated game I technically ever owned.
Edit: Dang it, and my image search had me come across THIS and now I want nothing else.
Are this one and Defiance playable with current controllers?
I'm long overdue with a replay of the series tbh.
Dishonored 2 does the exact same thing that Titanfall 2 does...right down the the idea of it. The first Witcher 3 DLC did something similar too iirc. In all these cases they had the other level loaded up at the same time instead of deforming the existing level.
But if we are talking about just real time environment transformation/deformation then DmC did it a lot, Silent Hill as well.
mavericktopgun
Member
Rogue Leader 1 and 2 next? F-Zero GX?
-shadow-
Member
I've always been more interested in the game that would be, instead of what it actually ended up becoming. Truly curious if a Director's Cut remake some day would be possible despite the newer games having been made and with the series seemingly being in purgatory as of this moment.
I don't think so. The original story idea was interesting, but the lore did benefit in the long term from the new ideas developed later.
Dictator93
Member
You can also unlock it to beyond 60hz / 60fps. I am currently playing it at 120fps/120hz! No bugs visible as of yet! It even works with driver SGSSAA.
1920X1080 w/ no Texture Filtering and 8XSGSSAA
Mama Robotnik
Member
In my ideal, money-is-no-object, scenario, I'd love a remake that allowed you to play through both the released storyline and the abandoned one. Heck, they could weave both into the canon by calling them divergent time-streams!
If you play the correct storyline, the remake would end as the original did, with Raziel following Kain into the time portal.
If you play the "false" (cut) storyline - you would pursue Kain to his Mountain Retreat and murder him, then unleash the genocide of the vampires by arming and activating the Silenced Cathedral (as was the plot before the cuts). There would be a brief moment of victory, before the paradox catches up with history! Raziel, now unable to travel back in time and ensure his own creation alongside the now-murdered Kain (as per Soul Reaver 2) has spawned a fatal paradox, one which will destroy the universe of Nosgoth! Desperate to change this, with the world shaking itself apart, Raziel runs to the time-machine and sends himself back to the moment when history diverged. He'd lose his memory (thus not retconning anything in Soul Reaver 2) and make the "correct" story choice.
EternalWolf
Neo Member
Soul Revenant aims to restore the cut content and of course upgrade the graphics significantly. Raina Audron, who is mentioned in the DF video, is helping with the project.
https://www.facebook.com/SoulRevenant/
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/search/label/Soul Revenant
Blood Omnicide is a very impressive remake of Blood Omen with a demo available.
http://omnicide.razorwind.ru/en/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=METuciFfBKQ&t
https://www.facebook.com/SoulRevenant/
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/search/label/Soul Revenant
Blood Omnicide is a very impressive remake of Blood Omen with a demo available.
http://omnicide.razorwind.ru/en/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=METuciFfBKQ&t
That would be awesome and if they re-implement all the things that were cut it would be even better.
The Hermit
Member
Yeah, I am against reboots, but I would love this!
Mama Robotnik
Member
Its a 2D Zelda game with an incredible, unpredictable storyline - the game sets up the familiar tropes (the first fortress has a boss to kill), then completely demolishes them (the next fortress boss is a nightmare that is unkillable forcing you to run away, the next fortress boss isn't in a fortress and isn't a boss). The goodies are bad,the baddies are good - and you are trying to save the world even though everyone wants you dead. Add time-travel, creature transformations, some imaginative and grotesque power ups, tons of secrets and some incredible voice-acting still to this day, and you have got a great great game.
Loading times are a bit rubbish though, so emulation or the PC version are a good way to go.
isaacnukem
Member
These are the kinds of games that deserve a modern collection. Get all the titles in one disc, then hope for a new one.
poodaddy
Member
Thank you so much for this post. I didn't know about any of these projects and I am so excited to delve into them now.Soul Revenant aims to restore the cut content and of course upgrade the graphics significantly. Raina Audron, mention in the DF video, is helping with the project.
https://www.facebook.com/SoulRevenant/
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/search/label/Soul Revenant
Blood Omnicide is a very impressive remake of Blood Omen with a demo available.
http://omnicide.razorwind.ru/en/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=METuciFfBKQ&t
MrCunningham
Member
Got to talk to Square-Enix about it. They are the ones who own the rights now.... I think.
Or does SK (Dennis Dyack) own the rights?
this always seemed like a good series to revive.
In anycase, I almost forgot how good the ps1 game was on a technical level. Those streaming rooms and lack of loading. The 512x224 resolution as well. Dreamcast port was cool too, but shame about the fps drops.
Never played the pc verion. Tempted to get it on GOG. Surely something like keytopad (or whatever) could solve the gamepad issue.
I really have to thank you so much John for putting in so much effort and research into Soul Reaver. The Legacy of Kain series holds a very special place in my heart and so I always really appreciate when someone can spark more interest about this slowly dying franchise. Plus you managed to give everyone a never seen before insight into the technical details which is simply phenomenal.
It's a pity that Dead Sun was cancelled (I could swear that Sons Of Shade was the working title of this game)since I even absolutely enjoyed Blood Omen 2 which most Soul Reaver fans consider to be a bad game. We can all only hope that a sequel will be created in the not too distant future. Depending if CD or SE decide to make it happen. But does one even truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate... and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
It's a pity that Dead Sun was cancelled (I could swear that Sons Of Shade was the working title of this game)since I even absolutely enjoyed Blood Omen 2 which most Soul Reaver fans consider to be a bad game. We can all only hope that a sequel will be created in the not too distant future. Depending if CD or SE decide to make it happen. But does one even truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate... and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
Erebus
Member
Thanks for doing this, I've been expecting it since I started following DF Retro.
I love the series and especially the original Soul Reaver. I remember being blown away by the incredible intro (which is one of the most memorable gaming intros thanks to the music, the dialogue and the visuals for me) the first time I saw it. Also, fell in love with Nosgoth, the lore and the gameplay novelties for the time.
The game never got the level of praise it deserved in my opinion especially for its story telling, lore and technical prowess. It's unbelievable what they had achieved on PS1 even with the missing content.
Such a shame the series has been completely abandoned today.
I love the series and especially the original Soul Reaver. I remember being blown away by the incredible intro (which is one of the most memorable gaming intros thanks to the music, the dialogue and the visuals for me) the first time I saw it. Also, fell in love with Nosgoth, the lore and the gameplay novelties for the time.
The game never got the level of praise it deserved in my opinion especially for its story telling, lore and technical prowess. It's unbelievable what they had achieved on PS1 even with the missing content.
Such a shame the series has been completely abandoned today.
Great video as always.
It's a real shame about the PC version being a bad port of the PS1 version rather than the Dreamcast.
DC was how I originally played the game, and I wish there was a better way to play it today.
Sadly, DC emulation never really got to the state that PS2 or GameCube/Wii did - though it's at least in a better state than Xbox right now I suppose.
You get much better scaling/filtering options running PS1 games on PC than hooking up hardware to an HDTV - the result usually looks bad and suffers from input lag.
I've never played Soul Reaver 2 and was thinking about doing so on PC.
Aside from the widescreen patch not working for me, and having to use software EAX emulation rather than hardware EAX, it seemed to be working fine up to the first save point at 5760x4320 when I tested it earlier. Unlocked framerate too.
It's a real shame about the PC version being a bad port of the PS1 version rather than the Dreamcast.
DC was how I originally played the game, and I wish there was a better way to play it today.
Sadly, DC emulation never really got to the state that PS2 or GameCube/Wii did - though it's at least in a better state than Xbox right now I suppose.
As I understood it, Mednafen is more accurate than Sony's emulator at this point.
You get much better scaling/filtering options running PS1 games on PC than hooking up hardware to an HDTV - the result usually looks bad and suffers from input lag.
What are the issues with it?Probably. The PC port is total shite.
I've never played Soul Reaver 2 and was thinking about doing so on PC.
Aside from the widescreen patch not working for me, and having to use software EAX emulation rather than hardware EAX, it seemed to be working fine up to the first save point at 5760x4320 when I tested it earlier. Unlocked framerate too.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
Soul Revenant aims to restore the cut content and of course upgrade the graphics significantly. Raina Audron, who is mentioned in the DF video, is helping with the project.
https://www.facebook.com/SoulRevenant/
http://theancientsden.blogspot.com/search/label/Soul Revenant
Wow.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
What i would give for a new Soul Reaver game. Oh man.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
In an alternative time line we've gotten at least 3 sequels to defiance.
Also, no one ever guessed that my nick name is a reference to the series.
Also, no one ever guessed that my nick name is a reference to the series.
no one ever tried
GrantDaNasty
Member
As someone who has only ever played a few minutes of Soul Reaver, should I look into getting that GOG PC Version or would I be better served emulating the DC/PS1 version?
I know you (Dark10x) covered it in the video, but figured I'd get a final read on it, cause I have always heard really glowing things about Soul Reaver, and the DC version having no 30-fps frame limiter and better textures (in a limited capacity) does seem quite tempting.
I know you (Dark10x) covered it in the video, but figured I'd get a final read on it, cause I have always heard really glowing things about Soul Reaver, and the DC version having no 30-fps frame limiter and better textures (in a limited capacity) does seem quite tempting.
Rei dos Vermes
Member
I don't know about Defiance, but for SR2 you need a DirectInput controller to enable full analog movement. I used a DualShock 2 pad with a cheap USB adapter and it worked great.
Personally, I can't handle any sort of stuttering like Demul has with this game. I find it incredibly distracting.
With higher-res, wide-screen support and 60 fps I'd say a modded PC version is the way to go. For now.