I heard it drops frames, but I haven't played it on ps4, but I'm not trying to make a false claim here, so forgive me. My point is simply that games can look different and push hardware differently, if snake pass wasn't pushing ps4 properly, they would not be hitting locked frames unless they were well above 30fps and if they were way above 30fps, the title would push 900p, because it isn't and the frames are locked, that gives indication that the game is running smoothly on the hardware, not a sign of poor optimization and again I believe the pro is the target platform, not sure why the ps4 wouldn't benefit from that.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DF: Snake Pass PS4/Switch Comparison.
- Thread starter Prithee Be Careful
- Start date
I heard it drops frames, but I haven't played it on ps4, but I'm not trying to make a false claim here, so forgive me. My point is simply that games can look different and push hardware differently, if snake pass wasn't pushing ps4 properly, they would not be hitting locked frames unless they were well above 30fps and if they were way above 30fps, the title would push 900p, because it isn't and the frames are locked, that gives indication that the game is running smoothly on the hardware, not a sign of poor optimization and again I believe the pro is the target platform, not sure why the ps4 wouldn't benefit from that.
Maintenance
Member
Broken Hope
Member
It's laughable that you consider it optimised on either the Switch or the base PS4.
No shit it runs tons better on the pro, that's pure brute forcing the extra performance.
Please explain to me what Snake Pass is doing to need the resolution on both systems to be so low.
I hope we going to get better things than this "great" and "fast" port that is so praised.
I would be curious what would be the reactions of some of the same people if EA would do a similar rushed and unoptimised job with FIFA for example. I could bet it would be used for years as an excuse for 3rd party games not selling.
I hope Bethesda listens to this and makes Skyrim 475p in handheld mode, is obviously the ideal way to port.
I would be curious what would be the reactions of some of the same people if EA would do a similar rushed and unoptimised job with FIFA for example. I could bet it would be used for years as an excuse for 3rd party games not selling.
I hope Bethesda listens to this and makes Skyrim 475p in handheld mode, is obviously the ideal way to port.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I think it's reasonable to have different expectations from a massive publisher like EA developing a retail game than a small studio like Sumo. Plus FIFA would actually benefit more from running at native res, whereas it doesn't really matter for Snake Pass.
That's an interesting perspective. I spent last night on Snake Pass in handeld mode so I can tell the game is super cool and plays likes the real deal. I'd sign immediately for a FIFA 18 on Switch, with such a limited downgrade on the go. Immediately.
Good example a game that have a proven engine limit (look the DF article) and run at a target of 60fps.
notenoughscarabs
Neo Member
I downloaded this on Switch last night and I'm really surprised to see anybody defending this. It looks straight up bad in portable mode, it's a huge disappointment. I've not had chance to try it out docked yet, is it any better?
Devilgunman
Member
I don't think that statement was as sarcastic as you thought.
I thought the same. Then I 100% the first 3 levels and I forgot what my rant was in the first place. Snake Pass is a very pleasing experience even in handeld mode.
Eh, the resolution definitely could be better, but for a month port that made the simultaneous release of the other platforms is pretty good. They're gonna patch the game soonish so undocked should not look blurry after that. Docked definitely looks better though. The game is fun so most of the graphical nonsense kinda goes out of the window for me.
GhostTrick
Banned
Not to say Switch is close to PS4 or whatever, but you're aware that the "poorly optimised" is a poor argument ? If it's poorly optimised on PS4, it'll also be on Switch, which basically nullify your claim.
Now as for me, this game is basically a benchmark for what you can expect for simple looking game/concepts that are easily scalable. But definitely not an exemple on what to expect for let's say, DQXI.
Not that I know of.
Broken Hope
Member
My post above also states I don't believe it's fully optimised for the Switch either.
man, this is quite bad despite the AA that UE4 may provide. Really we are hitting ps3 era resolutions for an indie game, And vita resolutions for the portable version too.
1080p on ps4 and 720p on switch at 30fps shouldn't be an issue with a game like this that is not particulary exciting from a visual standpoint.
1080p on ps4 and 720p on switch at 30fps shouldn't be an issue with a game like this that is not particulary exciting from a visual standpoint.
Candescence
Member
I love how people are declaring that this game has to be poorly optimised or something despite the physics and animation stuff going on under the hood and the considerable amount of scene detail. Nevermind it's also a really good-looking stylised game as well, it's hardly unimpressive. It could be better-optimised, maybe, but "poor programming" declarations are questionable at best in this case.
Haven't had any problems with portable mode but in docked mode the game looks so blurry.
I think that was actually possible here, but Sumo wanted to push a few more details that brought the resolution down to keep locked frame rates without dynamic resolutions, but as I've been saying, this isn't new to this generation, sub 1080p and dynamic resolutions have happened on PS4 even from big studios. I just don't think it's fair to point at snake pass's developers as lazy (not you specifically) when they were just targeting the PS4 Pro and compromising other experiences, from the people who've actually played the game, it seems to be a very easy compromise to make. I mean if people didn't know the numbers, they would likely not think the resolutions were what they were, thanks to good AA.
It is reasonable to have different expectations and it's acceptable what Sumo managed to do. But from acceptable to praising it's a very long road.
Plus, what if the EA team that will work on FIFA for Switch will be smaller than Sumo team? Then how would you judge it? They could also do a rushed and mildly optimised job.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I'd judge it the same since EA had the option to put more resource but didn't. Sucks for that team, but EA would ultimately be at fault.
other games that have had poor performance have been criticised, for sure. So if this one has performance (resolution in this case) issues, shouldn't be different. Yes as an indie developer i can understand it, not that i like it, but it is tolerable somehow, but maybe they should have focused on a single platform or released the game in a few months. They probably thought it was better to deliver a 'not so polished' game asap because the lack of games on Switch, and being a simultaneous release with PS4 too would give them a better chance to sell more copies.
And i don't know if sub native resolution on switch is good, on vita it was quite noticeable when a game wasn't running at native resolution so...
Fifa isn't made in UE4. Nvidia has had a hand in development of this particular engine and Nintendo has tuned the Switch (along with Nvidia) to make sure that it handles UE4 from a development pipeline extremely well. It's also almost certainly using fp16 in a mixed precision to meet this performance... Even if EA is using frostbite for Switch version of Fifa (not saying it is) these advantages would not be there, I think we will see a more modest performance because of these factors.
People shouldn't be running with what Switch can do in UE4 and applying it to every engine, UE4 is going to be much better at drawing out the Switch's full performance than other engines.
Fifa can of course look good, and play well, but it's not going to sit side by side with the PS4/XB1 version (even if it wasn't custom) and be anywhere near what we are seeing here, this is a best case scenario for Switch honestly and was what I was talking about in my speculations of performance because in all honesty, Switch is punch way above its weight on paper here in this game, (like twice as high) So just a caution to people who look at this and see what Switch ports should be, it's not... expect on paper, the Switch version of a PS4 game to run at what we see undocked here, docked in those other games, because that is what on paper, you'd get with direct ports, that is to say if the PS4 game is 1080p, you might get 540p docked with a very similar performance, or if the PS4 is 900p, the Switch docked version would be 480p, this is the cost of development on a tablet without taking advantage of its advanced features.
Any developer should be able to navigate these waters well enough though, fp16 in mixed precision isn't too hard to implement and would mean a decent increase in performance, and nvidia generally does perform better per flop, but again this is going to be a developer taking advantage of the platform, so maybe Fifa will look like a current gen game at reduced but not too far reduced resolution and graphical effects, I feel ~30% of PS4 performance is obtainable in most multiplat games for Switch. Just not the ~40% of PS4 performance we are seeing in snake pass.
I still think Wii U gamepad is a better comparison, they have the same size screen and basically giving the same resolution (480p streamed and compressed vs 475p with AA and running on the device) It should look better on Switch than it would on Wii U gamepad, and nearly as many people have used these devices, so seems fair. Personally, it's all a big step up from the 3DS which was my favorite platform a few years ago, so I think I'll be fine with this. I also tend to run sub native resolution on my own 27 inch PC monitor and bumping up effects and frame rate, so I'm not entirely sure how much the average gamer is going to care, heck I think the main issue is the number itself and not how it looks, but how people feel about the numbers.
Edit: As a hobbyist developer myself, I would actually target native resolution on the Switch handheld, but I'm a single developer, who is focused on game design over graphics directly, so whatever I could push through UE4 in a ~200gflop maxwell GPU @ 720p is going to be what I'd be after, I would want 60fps and use dynamic resolution to maintain that smooth gameplay, but I do have to respect how sumo wanted to display their game, it does look really good and the AA seems to help, so while I would do things differently, I think what they did is perfectly valid.
Dictator93
Member
This thread is full of some rather intense and obvious apologoetica of the readily obvious switch hardware shortcomings. TAA negates resolution differnces? Yeah OK. Try that in a listwars thread, not a DF one please.
Off-topic but... Switch having so few games as a plus? That is an interesting way to view having no bc real library and a thin laznch lineup.
I think his point was that since you can play the Switch anywhere, you are more incline to actually play it.
Handheld backlogs for me have always been shorter than say my steam backlog, mostly because I am never in front of my computer as often as I'm able to carry my 3DS with me.
Probably a good indication that I should buy a GDP Win...
...Isn't that the point DF makes...in the DF video we're talking about on here...in this DF thread? 🤔
To be precise, DF said that lower res and TAA could produce "more pleasing results" than higher res and no AA. That doesn't explicitly mean that the image is the same (and therefore AA doesn't negate the differences). Obviously high res and AA is better than both, but as DF says low res + AA is not necessarily immediately worse than high res if that means it lacks AA. Nor do it mean the low res + AA is automatically better or even on par, of course. It all depends on the implementation. Some people may be put off by a blurrier image (low res + AA) while others dislike aliasing (high res no AA) more, so there is an aspect of preference involved in this.
What is salient, though, is that plenty of people here on GAF thought the PS4 and Switch version ran at higher res than they actually did. In that regard there is some merit in saying that AA does negate the difference to some extent.
Its a hybrid device with 150 / 390 gflops and a quick port and it still holds up quite well.
Ah, that ks for clearing that up. 😄
I don't know. Switch version looks fine to me.
quick port is not acceptable from a consumer standpoint tbh. screams gimme you money now that switch still has not many games and you will buy whatever is available.
KainXVIII
Member
Don't know, don't know, PC version can't hit 60 fps (dips to ~40) in second level at very high preset with gtx 970 and i5-3570@4.2GHz (and i don't think there is some taxing ultra setting for videocard from future like in Gears of War 4)
At one point during my playthrough yesterday, it striked me it's incredible to play this console game on a handheld. I don't know what you put behind "good". If most UE4 console games could transfer like this on Switch, it'd be good news, you'd be playing the same console games on the go. The sacrifices made aren't game breaking by any mean. I'm sure more time spent on optimization would provide better graphics, but the basis is already "good".
Handheld: 256 cuda cores @ 384mhz is 196gflops pushing 400,900 pixels @ 30fps
Console: 256 cuda cores @ 768mhz is 393gflops pushing 810,000 pixels @ 30fps
The performance here is perfectly scaled, so I do think we are looking at the full docked clock, I've also heard it has a similar battery drain to playing Zelda undocked, which would point to 196gflops here.
That's why I still debate if I should get it on Switch instead of PC. But this still doesn't make the port "good", it just means that there's additional incentive to ignore the negatives to enjoy the positives.
It is the only game that renders at this very low resolution on Switch after all.
Cuningas de Häme
Member
Quick port is a positive when you think about how well it behaves in such a short time. It bodes well for the future and other games.
And people are purposefully forgetting patches here, like every other modern game didn't improve a lot after launch (if dev cares about the performance at all).
Devs haven't had dev kits for long, and I'd say that only the games coming next fall/winter start to give a better perspective for Switch's performance. Quick ports tend to behave worse than games made from early beginning.
And people are purposefully forgetting patches here, like every other modern game didn't improve a lot after launch (if dev cares about the performance at all).
Devs haven't had dev kits for long, and I'd say that only the games coming next fall/winter start to give a better perspective for Switch's performance. Quick ports tend to behave worse than games made from early beginning.
It's a difficult call, the 60fps PS4 Pro video looked gorgeous. At one point I wished I had taken it for my 980ti. But then each time I open Steam I see my backlog (I still haven't completed RE7 and I got it day 1), I have my FIFA 17 shortcut, and I always end up not playing games I buy.
I grabbed my Switch in bed last night and played Snake Pass for 2 hours. I just tend to play Switch more with my lifestyle, because I play outside my house, or just by pure convenience.
Watching the video, I can clearly see some major differences between the versions besides those mentioned:
- there's more bloom and it's more complex on PS4,
- there are more lightning sources on PS4,
- there are a lot more shadows on PS4,
- the background is blurred on PS4 using DOF, while it's just blur on Switch,
- the foliage is more complex and is actually using lightning sources on PS4,
- LOD is better on PS4,
- it's ironic that PS4 has better anisotropic filtering (IYKWITA).
Let's just not forget that PS4 is a few times faster and more powerful than Switch. It's cool nevertheless what can be achievable in UE4 on an almost smartphone hardware.
Last time I checked Uncharted and Killzone looked really cool on PS Vita which had almost the same specs as iPad 3rd Gen (first one to have Retina Display).
- there's more bloom and it's more complex on PS4,
- there are more lightning sources on PS4,
- there are a lot more shadows on PS4,
- the background is blurred on PS4 using DOF, while it's just blur on Switch,
- the foliage is more complex and is actually using lightning sources on PS4,
- LOD is better on PS4,
- it's ironic that PS4 has better anisotropic filtering (IYKWITA).
Let's just not forget that PS4 is a few times faster and more powerful than Switch. It's cool nevertheless what can be achievable in UE4 on an almost smartphone hardware.
Last time I checked Uncharted and Killzone looked really cool on PS Vita which had almost the same specs as iPad 3rd Gen (first one to have Retina Display).
? Real weird base PS4 results.Ha, I have the same thing right now.. PS4 Pro, 980ti PC or Switch.... Think it's going to be Switch, but I'll decide when I get around to starting it tonight.
LukasTaves
Member
We don't know exactly how many times more performance pro is actually having since on base the game operates with a capped framerate. Depending on the unlocked framerate it could fall to what's expected.
Kinda like a Tomb Raider Definitive Edition where xbone got locked to 30 and ps4 had an unlocked framerate that often hit 60fps and would suggest a 2 times factor of performance.
Ha, I'm in the same position. When I open Steam I always end up playing something from Paradox rather than the games I have in backlog. But also on Switch I'm still at 61 Shrines and 2 beasts gone. I need more playing time.
CEJames
Member
omg lmao, I was looking for a post like this. Looks like Switch will always have its grass on point!
CEJames
Member
well wow...
i mean shit... (in before, "#itsthecompression and #youcan'tjudgeonacomputerscreen)
The real problem here, is that i think the spirit is "as long as it runs at acceptable rez docked, it's ok. Portable is a bonus"
But it's a massive mistake. The portable aspect of the Switch is its main appeal, not the reverse. IF some devs treat it like shit, it's gonna be a problem.
And thus begins the internal war of docked fans vs primarily undocked fans...smh..
Maintenance
Member
Docked vs undocked, Pro vs non-pro, Scorpio vs Non-scorpio. The age of infighting has begun.
Similar threads
- Locked