Diablo 3 is the better game though.
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Diablo 3, Is It Salvageable?
- Thread starter IHaveCandy
- Start date
Diablo 3 is the better game though.
Cross platform shouldn't brake system which they have. User-generated content only for looks would work but any content that change gameplay would not work.
You mean it is 3D and have better combat animations which are frankly very good.
la flama blanca
Banned
Path of Exile shits on Diablo 3 from a high distance.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Great art and combat system, but boring loot and customization. It would take a lot of work, and and expansion to add more content, but I think they have a solid foundation.
Haven't played in about half a year, but I didn't find it very fun to hit things in Path of Exile. The customization and loot aspects were awesome, but I had much more fun theorycrafting and browsing the passive tree than actually playing the game.
Haven't played in about half a year, but I didn't find it very fun to hit things in Path of Exile. The customization and loot aspects were awesome, but I had much more fun theorycrafting and browsing the passive tree than actually playing the game.
Blizzard got wrong Wilson. They should hire Chris Wilson instead of Jay Wilson
The two biggest problems with Diablo 3 are the loot system and the auction house, which play off each other in really bad ways. The loot system is bad because good, useful items basically never drop. You can play for hours without getting a single drop with a useful combination of affixes, then when one finally drops it can still suck because of a few bad stat rolls.
Meanwhile, everyone's standards for gear are extremely high since the auction house gives everyone cheap access to near-ideal drops. It's a weird contradiction, but the end result is that you never get excited when rares or legendaries drop since there's almost no chance it will be usable or even sellable.
If Blizzard can fix those issues, maybe Diablo 3 could still be saved. It seems more or less impossible, though. Seeing the new design lead say that they want to move to fewer, more useful drops makes me feel hopeful. Still, as long as the AH is around, I don't think they can "fix" this game.
Meanwhile, everyone's standards for gear are extremely high since the auction house gives everyone cheap access to near-ideal drops. It's a weird contradiction, but the end result is that you never get excited when rares or legendaries drop since there's almost no chance it will be usable or even sellable.
If Blizzard can fix those issues, maybe Diablo 3 could still be saved. It seems more or less impossible, though. Seeing the new design lead say that they want to move to fewer, more useful drops makes me feel hopeful. Still, as long as the AH is around, I don't think they can "fix" this game.
I've tried, its still the same game for me, sorry.
partyphone
Banned
I couldn't get into it. The skill system is interesting but the combat feels old and dated and the passive skill tree is a big hot mess. I don't know why anyone thought it was a good layout:
Personally I'm going to be spending a lot more quality time with Torchlight 2.
Passive skill tree is fucking amazing and your shoot is from pre closed beta. At first i also thought it will be hell to balance it but at this point after many revisions it is fucking stellar feature. Only duelist is fucked in hardcore mode but they will patch it in few days.
THe game was fun for me; managed to make it to level 60 quite quickly and buy some nice equipment because I played on some one else's account.
It's quite satisfying to go through monsters as an all-raping-destroyer.
Stopped playing at Act 2 inferno. The only reason to continue is either to create a new character or play more for better items, so you can find more items. That, in my mind, is what fucks up the endgame. In Diablo II you'd play more to get that one more extra skill point. You'd create three different Barbarians. Now you can just play each class and play them any way you want. Which is not necessarily a con if you're playing casually, but for all the D2 fans out there it's a letdown.
It's quite satisfying to go through monsters as an all-raping-destroyer.
Stopped playing at Act 2 inferno. The only reason to continue is either to create a new character or play more for better items, so you can find more items. That, in my mind, is what fucks up the endgame. In Diablo II you'd play more to get that one more extra skill point. You'd create three different Barbarians. Now you can just play each class and play them any way you want. Which is not necessarily a con if you're playing casually, but for all the D2 fans out there it's a letdown.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
im glad people like the game it just wasnt for me. Maybe that will change later (maybe it already has). Thats the reason i justified the purchase of the game in the first place.. there is no subscription so years later i can return to try it out again. i will say that it was easily the worst game ive played this generation especially considering the pedigree of the franchise and developer.
ill wait for a Lets Play from a future expansion pack before giving money to Blizzard again.
ill wait for a Lets Play from a future expansion pack before giving money to Blizzard again.
partyphone
Banned
I played it like last month and it's still very similar to that. And balance isn't the issue. The thing is just a big fucking mess and I hate it. I'd overlook it if the game was more fun to play but I can't be bothered.
Pretty much. Oh and:
I mildly understand the 'loot-splosion' appeal. But come the hell on. I have tried multiple times to get into the game, but I just can't. Its combat feels rigid and stale, the visuals are bland and I just don't find it fun. I would be willing to play another loot ARPG, but only if it was actually better than D3. POE ain't that, for all its great ideas, it just ain't it. Better off sticking around until D3 fixes its loot design than I am pinning my hopes on them overhauling PoE's dry as cardboard combat.
Maps system which Kripp plays have affixes that give you item quantity +xx%. Maps which Kripp plays are mental meaning very very very hard and often are 60-70% quantity.
So when Boss drops 8 items on ground after IQ bonus it will be 14-15 items. Also this works with each new player joining party. So you can have even 100-150% item quantity with many players in party.
What you showed is rare occurrence. Combat is one of faults in PoE and developers know this (they will release patches with new animations). But still their combat won't ever be like Diablo 3 because it is different design choice and much more tactical because of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbkmO2ZlVxk&feature=player_detailpage#t=50s
Such a bland combat, how can You even play game like that!
Make better build and stop complaining. And its funny to complain about combat in PoE, when in D3 playing Monk is holding LMB to eternity and popping mantras and serenity/blind from time to time, or moving away from npcs with tempest rush. Such a fun and unique combat.
Or playing Barb is better, turning wirlwind and spamming revenge, or activating Rent and spamming Revenge and from time to time activating one of its longer cooldown skills for damage and defense buff, oh and there is leap and charge as an escape tool too! Awesome...
Combat concept for Diablo 3 was great, but execution is bad.
I need to level up my shadow, poor guy has been neglected since I started my marauder and I keep finding ~15% quality dex gems.
/shrug, don't take it so personally. I don't like PoE, I let people continuously convince me that it was worth my time, but in the end, I found the combat boring, the gameplay boring, and the skill system and loot design mildly interesting at best.
I can't force myself to like it just because you disagree. And Im not going to tell you to "Play Diablo 3 better and stop whining" just because I like D3 and you don't. (Yes I saw your post before the edit).
Combat is garbage in D3. Everyone will be wowed by the flashy combat animations and the "fast paced" at the beginning, then find out they are tunnelled to very few builds, relegated to extremely repetitive gameplay with no variation, and waiting for long cooldowns or waiting for the terrible resource system to regen.
It never, ever harkened back to the action, spam-fest gameplay of D2 where you can spam Frozen Orbs all over the place without ever running out of mana. That's why PoE's combat is way better.
Basically, it comes down to this.
If you didn't play D2, you MAY like D3.
If you loved D2, you will love PoE.
If you loved D2 and hate PoE, then you became one of those Blizzard casuals that love nerfing difficulty and spend 10 minutes a day playing games.
It never, ever harkened back to the action, spam-fest gameplay of D2 where you can spam Frozen Orbs all over the place without ever running out of mana. That's why PoE's combat is way better.
Basically, it comes down to this.
If you didn't play D2, you MAY like D3.
If you loved D2, you will love PoE.
If you loved D2 and hate PoE, then you became one of those Blizzard casuals that love nerfing difficulty and spend 10 minutes a day playing games.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Whether or not they have or can continue to balance stuff is not important. It comes down to the fact that stats and item affixes are bland as hell...and this is a game about items. *Goes back to playing path of exile*
It does not come down to this. Taste does not worke like that for everyone, sorry.
I had more fun with Diablo 3 then Diablo 2. I don't think it has nearly as much longevity, but I don't really care about that. Even though I'm done with the game, I feel like I definitely got my money's worth.
Going through the first couple of playtroughs was fantastic. I really enjoyed the combat and variety of skills.
Going through the first couple of playtroughs was fantastic. I really enjoyed the combat and variety of skills.
Diablo is no different with the amount of shit it throws at you, except a lot of those items in PoE are actually useful. Most of Kripp's income comes from selling level 70-78 white items. White items are worthless past the 5 minute mark in Diablo 3, yet they still drop continuously all the way, blue may last you a bit longer on normal difficulty, but it's the same deal. That's the difference in "appeal".
If you've seen high level streamers play maps in PoE, every single chest, jar, or rock is worth clicking even at level 90, and there's a good reason for that. When was the last time you opened a chest that was not resplendent in D3? Let alone a barrel or tree stump...
I really don't understand what you mean by "mess"? Is it too big?
There is a logical progression to it, the skills are placed in a way that they benefit and synergize with certain stats, weapons or types of damage, and allows you tons of customization. I understand it's not baby's first skill tree and that's fine if you find it overwhelming, but if you look at it for more than 5 minutes it absolutely makes sense where everything is and why. In fact, its placement by main stat is actually extremely simple and intuitive while still allowing you to go all over the place if you want.
krameriffic
Member
PoE is a harder game to initially get into because it starts out slower and less awesomererer than D3 out the gate, but once you get past that initial barrier of shit gear and skill gem selection as well as lack of knowledge about the game's systems, it becomes easily the better core game than D3. There are things in it that feel better to me than any skill in D3 ever did, namely stuff like freezing pulse or double strike. There is a far wider variety of ways to build a character that actually work even right now when the skill selection is very limited compared to what they intend it to be in the future.
One aspect of D3's skill design that I never liked (and never will) was the decision to put in WoW-like, long CD skills that buff you up immensely in some way. You'll notice that skills like that don't exist in D2 or PoE because they're fucking stupid in an aRPG setting. They're aight in an MMO, but here, they suck. Maybe you say that's a taste thing, or a difference in design philosophy or something, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people prefer their skills to exist in one of only a few ways in these games: no/low CD primary attack skills, passives, auras and utility/mobility skills.
The skill tree is harder to learn and the immediacy of its presentation to the player is overwhelming to someone who has no idea what they're looking at. After a while, you learn how it works and where the skills are and why it makes sense, but its never presented to the player as anything more than a big, incomprehensible web.
And this was my whole point. You are right. Diablo 3 is just a "good game". It's not great, it's not as good as it should have been and it's nowhere near as good as Diablo 2. But to call it utter garbage after you sit there for 200hours playing it is just silly. No normal person plays a video game for hundreds of hours without enjoying it on some level. Just does not happen.(Unless you are getting paid to do it). And that was all I was saying, I dunno how you got side tracked off on that big rant over this.
Taste has nothing to do with comparative game features and game design.
Diablo 3 is practically nothing like Diablo 2, where Path of Exile advances Diablo 2's features.
Having my pet-oriented Witch Doctor suddenly be unplayable in the 2nd difficulty setting pretty much ran me off of the game.
And that has nothing to do with the game's values and how "good" it is. See? That is kind of my point. And no, PoE does not advance it. Real advance would not be jumping back to a more generic design and a more boring class/enemy variety and system, not to mention a more imprecise, laggy, horribly animated combat.
la flama blanca
Banned
Pretty much. Oh and:
I mildly understand the 'loot-splosion' appeal. But come the hell on. I have tried multiple times to get into the game, but I just can't. Its combat feels rigid and stale, the visuals are bland and I just don't find it fun. I would be willing to play another loot ARPG, but only if it was actually better than D3. POE ain't that, for all its great ideas, it just ain't it. Better off sticking around until D3 fixes its loot design than I am pinning my hopes on them overhauling PoE's dry as cardboard combat.
Your post is just straight up false. How do you think like this?
It definitely is salvagable however I don't believe Blizzard will take the steps necessary to fix the fundemental flaws of the game.
From my experience the first playthrough was awesome and playing in Co-op was a lot of fun. Beyond that though this game has been a very shallow experience.
The following are issues which could be looked at-
The loot system is comprimised by the very existence of the Auction house. Considering it is monitized what incentive does blizzard have to remove the tethering of the game to it. I would at least appreciate being given the choice to associate or remove my character from it when creating a new character. Or alternatively an offline mode.
What made the Diablo series so fun in the past was the fact that it was given that if you put in enough time you would get plenty of good items. I spent over 100 hours in Diablo 3 and didn't come across a single decent item. So the one area which should have been the most enjoyable was ruined due to the influence of the aforementioned AH which reduced drop rates.
As an avid player of both Diablo 1 and 2 I appreciated the fact that I could customise my character skills and the fact that this has been dumbed down in Diablo 3 really takes away from the experience.
Increased localised server support would also be great as I live in Australia and suffer lag due to the fact that I have no choice but to play on US servers.
I appreciate that Blizzard has taken some steps to address the issues but they are only stop-gap measures IMHO. Additionally I think that Jay Wilson was a scapegoat and that most of the decisions that were made which sullied the reputation of Blizzard were made higher up.
The issues I mentioned are my main gripes with the game but there are other minor ones. The sad thing is that the console version looks like it will be the best one. I really regret that I supported the PC version by purchasing the CE and rewarding Blizzard for what amounts to being Diablo adventures and not a true successor to the superb Diablo 2.
From my experience the first playthrough was awesome and playing in Co-op was a lot of fun. Beyond that though this game has been a very shallow experience.
The following are issues which could be looked at-
The loot system is comprimised by the very existence of the Auction house. Considering it is monitized what incentive does blizzard have to remove the tethering of the game to it. I would at least appreciate being given the choice to associate or remove my character from it when creating a new character. Or alternatively an offline mode.
What made the Diablo series so fun in the past was the fact that it was given that if you put in enough time you would get plenty of good items. I spent over 100 hours in Diablo 3 and didn't come across a single decent item. So the one area which should have been the most enjoyable was ruined due to the influence of the aforementioned AH which reduced drop rates.
As an avid player of both Diablo 1 and 2 I appreciated the fact that I could customise my character skills and the fact that this has been dumbed down in Diablo 3 really takes away from the experience.
Increased localised server support would also be great as I live in Australia and suffer lag due to the fact that I have no choice but to play on US servers.
I appreciate that Blizzard has taken some steps to address the issues but they are only stop-gap measures IMHO. Additionally I think that Jay Wilson was a scapegoat and that most of the decisions that were made which sullied the reputation of Blizzard were made higher up.
The issues I mentioned are my main gripes with the game but there are other minor ones. The sad thing is that the console version looks like it will be the best one. I really regret that I supported the PC version by purchasing the CE and rewarding Blizzard for what amounts to being Diablo adventures and not a true successor to the superb Diablo 2.
krameriffic
Member
Summoner builds are perfectly viable in PoE. Having a botched first character is an experience I think every player had when they were new. And you know what, it happened to me too with a melee cleave duelist (and not many people are gonna tell me those are perfectly fine and viable characters). It's a game where choices have consequences, and you can't easily undo them, WHICH IS A GOOD THING. It makes you feel like you're building a character, where Diablo 3 feels like I'm just progressing down a completely predetermined path that was dictated for me by my choice of class.
I'm already playing PoE, no need to sell me on it.
krameriffic
Member
I'm already playing PoE, no need to sell me on it.
I misinterpreted your post. You typed Witch Doctor (as in D3), but described an experience that seemed more in line with what PoE players experience (i.e. their character falling apart in the harder difficulties).
partyphone
Banned
Obviously! If the game wasn't perfect why would you play it so much?
Also, now with the usual Diablo III-bashers from PoE threads in here, I have again come to realize the train of thought that seems to poison every Diablo-related discussion.
Diablo III is a good game. Diablo III also has not much in common with the way Diablo II works. It only borrows its atmosphere, but retain none of the skill systems, little of the skills, few of the enemies, and definitely not of the approach.
What Blizzard built with that is a GOOD, enjoyable game. Deal with it or keep on raging: Diablo III is currently at its fifth OT in gaf alone, people will continue playing AND enjoying it.
...now, there is a simple way to deny all this. "I want an experience similar to Diablo II's. I cant get it from Diablo III. Therefore, Diablo III is the WORST."
But it is not. It is not the first time when a successor of a game largely deviated from what made its predecessors iconic, for better or worse, and it certainly wont be the last.*
*Just from the past twelve months: we've got X-Com, DmC, Tomb Raider. And yet, the world keeps on turning...
Diablo III is a good game. Diablo III also has not much in common with the way Diablo II works. It only borrows its atmosphere, but retain none of the skill systems, little of the skills, few of the enemies, and definitely not of the approach.
What Blizzard built with that is a GOOD, enjoyable game. Deal with it or keep on raging: Diablo III is currently at its fifth OT in gaf alone, people will continue playing AND enjoying it.
...now, there is a simple way to deny all this. "I want an experience similar to Diablo II's. I cant get it from Diablo III. Therefore, Diablo III is the WORST."
But it is not. It is not the first time when a successor of a game largely deviated from what made its predecessors iconic, for better or worse, and it certainly wont be the last.*
*Just from the past twelve months: we've got X-Com, DmC, Tomb Raider. And yet, the world keeps on turning...
CadetMahoney
Member
I agree. D3 on PS3/4 consoles isn't going to sell well tbh.
people want an experience from Diablo 3 that approaches even a sliver of the amount of complexity and depth that Diablo 2 had, not Diablo 2
as in, people, who played Diablo 2 and enjoyed the immense possibility space of the game, were disappointed when Diablo 3's possibility space was comparatively microscopic; I'm sure you understand that though
lol
Sorry but i am not player which plays diablo like game for 5hours and call it amazing/shit.
Initial impresion is worth jack shit in longer games.
It's like having opinion about some movie based on trailers.
Many games have this problem.
Mass Effect 2 is amazing but at some point you realize that it is game about recruiting followers and by the end of it you ask yourself why the fuck are you playing it.
That doesn't bother me. Its that every time we have these discussions, there are some that are seemingly incapable of understanding someone that doesn't like PoE. A lot of us.... don't. And its just an opinion, just like they don't like plenty of games, but they get so defensive about it and start calling names and shit. This isn't an OP, so people are free to speak their minds about the bad shit in D3, PoE and any other game in the genre.
I played for ~120 hours, 15 of which i played solo and the rest with friends while talking on skype. I think it was during hell when we started to realize how the game fell short and yet still kept playing because we were waiting years for this game. If it wasn't for my friends and talking to them on skype i would have stopped playing sooner.
I think the bolded part is true for a lot of people. A few years ago, I told everyone that Blizzard was my favourite Dev and they never released a bad game. I just couldn't accept that Diablo 3 would disappoint me. I know a lot of people who kept playing exactly for this reason.
PantherAttacks
Member
I don't think Diablo 3 is salvagable. For me to enjoy it, they need to make fundamental changes to character customization, itemization and remove the auction house. Blizzard seem way too scared to make any drastic changes like that. Typically when faced with a design problem they take a reductionist approach and simplify. Diablo 3 has had too much simplification already and as a result it feels shallow and boring. I don't have any confidence that they know how to make a game deeper or more complex over time.
I understand that. Luckily, the sheer WILL of the people who were eager to play a game similar to what Diablo II was able to offer was great enough to raise insane amounts of support money for Path of Exile. That sort of SUPPORTIVE, CREATIVE intent towards what one wants to play is what I think is beneficial for moving the genre forward - shitting on Diablo III for being different compared to that route however, is not beneficial.
And there is strong criticism to be had towards D3, last one was just answered by the devs themselves...
Nope, D3's value is practically hinges on the legacy of D2.
Anyone who hasn't play D2, look at my above post.
And you probably never played D2 if you say that D2 does not have the same combat problems. It's THE SAME COMBAT SYSTEM!
why don't you shit on that dev then? Diablo 3 is already satisfactory to you and he is potentially threatening the integrity of it
I honestly can't believe that anybody would compare PoE's combat favorably against D2 or even D3 in here. PoE's current metagame is the following:
1) Pick a skill. If it's not ranged, try again.
2) Add some gems to it to make it do more damage in the long run. These are the same gems everybody else is using.
3) Add some auras and possibly a curse or totem
4) spam that skill you chose in (1). Nope, don't use anything else. Just that skill.
5) On the passive tree, grab as many HP/defensive nodes as possible, ignore everything else.
I like PoE but don't let the jokers in here fool you and think that the combat is "amazing." Because it's not, and the combat is something that D3 mostly got right.
1) Pick a skill. If it's not ranged, try again.
2) Add some gems to it to make it do more damage in the long run. These are the same gems everybody else is using.
3) Add some auras and possibly a curse or totem
4) spam that skill you chose in (1). Nope, don't use anything else. Just that skill.
5) On the passive tree, grab as many HP/defensive nodes as possible, ignore everything else.
I like PoE but don't let the jokers in here fool you and think that the combat is "amazing." Because it's not, and the combat is something that D3 mostly got right.