Pop
Member
Sony knows what they're doing. They see the same rumors everyone else does about Microsoft next box. If the power gap bothers them, I'm sure they will do something about it. But who knows, it's all speculation right now.
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Digital Foundry: Neo GPU are point-for-point a match for RX 480
- Thread starter Shtof
- Start date
Sony knows what they're doing. They see the same rumors everyone else does about Microsoft next box. If the power gap bothers them, I'm sure they will do something about it. But who knows, it's all speculation right now.
60 is the minimum, 90 is recommended. PSVR outputs at 90 or 120.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Could people stop saying about that, because if Sony do it, MS can do the same in 1 year later, then Sony follow, then loop and loop.
Man console industry will become pre-WW1 level arms race.
jabberwocker
Banned
Why? What's the point? The CPUs aren't bottlenecking the system.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
It doesn't require it, but there is no debating that a better CPU would give more performance gains.
dead monkey uk
Member
Sure Sony could up the clock speeds, MS did it with X1. I do not think we can expect more than a minor boost to the released Neo specs due to heat concerns, plus boosting the GPU further may make very little sense due to the limited CPU performance. I expect the Neo to be quite a sleek design this limiting any way of adding better cooling.
I really do not think Sony need to be that bothered with MS releasing a more powerful console 12 months later. By the time the Scorpio releases there will be over 50 millions Ps4(K)s sold. On release of the Scorpio, Sony can drop the price of the Neo by $50 and continue selling.
lol dont give a shit about sales im not a shareholder. just gimme a powerful box not this weird half assed neo crap
exactly, unless they are going for a slim design, that could be a possibility. Not sure if cheaper than using vega. Who knows.
What i see problematic is the rumoured release dates for both systems. While +1,5TF is a sensible power advantage, almost a year lead is also a huge deal. And that considering both have the same cost.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Well if both use same GPU i can't see Scorpio coming late 2017.
Though highly doubt there will be a 1200mhz GPU inside the console, so i expect Scorpio use something else GPU.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
If the better CPU would not result in better performance it would not be under consideration.
Opus Angelorum
Member
1. The 'new' Xbox will have a custom cooler, optimized GPU and redesigned chassis...I don't think heat will be an issue (RROD).
2. If the PS4K is coming out this fall, the system will be close to manufacturing process. I really doubt they could redesign the box, raise the clocks and run all manner of tests in such a short period of time.
Truthfully, Sony could launch Neo at $299 (they most likely won't). Whenever Scorpio launches, Sony is on easy street because they have a pretty big margin of wiggle room when it comes to BOM.
60 would work better because of frame reprojection to 120. 90 cannot be reprojected to 120.
I can guarantee that most if not all PSVR games will target 1080P/60FPS with reprojection.
This is a far lower target than what Rift and Vive demand...both run at 1200P and require nothing less than 90FPS.
As such games will end up looking very close graphically despite hardware differences.
Shtof
Member
Unless some disruptive innovation happens(i.e. game streaming becomes good), yeah, that is probably how it will go down.
MilkyJoe
Member
18 would be madness. 19 absolute earliest.
Aceofspades
Banned
People always forget that Sony is thinking also about developing games time for these machines, Introducing new CPUs can add more burden on the devs.
PS4 is already successful, Sony wants minimal efforts in porting the games to the NEO ( if any). Thats why sticking to the same APU is best business decision.
PS4 is already successful, Sony wants minimal efforts in porting the games to the NEO ( if any). Thats why sticking to the same APU is best business decision.
Just like Microsoft is a software company. They know what they are doing (Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8, the Xbox One SDK...).
qa_engineer
Member
Pretty sure it's the other way around.
I was going to comment like WTH. Then I realised you was joking about the software you posted haha.
They obviously know better than us. We are just spectators. But it is one hell of a ride to speculate about this!
and what would be better? Using a 480 an release ASAP with more powerful box than Neo, or wait a full year using newer GPU to achieve similar results (in TFlops)?
They already have a big box, so unlike sony that have a smaller form factor and internal power, they can keep a similar design and opt for a less power efficient GPU, but launch sooner.
You have a pretty good point here. There might be some unnecessary headaches introduced when switching from Jaguar to Zen cores. With the entire industry relying on GPGPU as an ends to a mean, we could see lower power CPU's be a recurring them for consoles.
Vega 10 (Greenland) is meant to be a huge 15 to 18 billion transistor GPU
Baffin is Polaris 11 (small GPU) and Ellesemere is Polaris 10 (medium GPU).
http://wccftech.com/amd-greenland-gpu-32-gb-hbm2-memory-15-18-billion-transistors/
Xbox Scorpio having Greenland / Vega 10 sounds too good to be true.
However, if there actually is another medium size GPU (Vega 11?) that's somewhat bigger and more powerful than Polaris 10, that's probably what Scorpio would have.
mejin
Member
I understand this and you're right. We're just talking based on rumours. Scorpio is a fall 2017 project and Neo (at best) early 2017 from what I know.
So, I don't understand why people are so concerned about difference in hardware when launch are so far apart. It's understandable Scorpio being more powerful IMO.
I'm interested in seeing what they'll do with the clock speed now. I wouldn't put it past them to try and clock it as high as it can go without overheating. Hopefully this time around the power brick isn't inside the console, they could work with more airflow in the casing itself.
I believe all the native VR framerate modes can be reprojected to 120.
Anyway...if Neo's GPU is Polaris, that would be quite welcome, should bring a bit more improvement than a scaling out of the current architecture. But I guess we'll have to wait for total confirmation.
To produce even more heat? We are already reaching fanfiction levels.
Shtof
Member
Really? I'd like to see that BOM breakdown. Since the RX480 is pretty cutting edge and likely more expensive than the APU used in original PS4. Sure, the DRAM is probably cheaper this time around, but I'd still think $399 to be the absolutely lowest they will go.
They are cleaning market from those big boxes.
.... aaaand I'm in. Bring it on Sony!
It depends on yields, if the fab process is reliable and binning chips at 1.2Ghz is fairly easy then it may not cost more than the same chip at 911Mhz.
Given the fact that an 8GB 480 has a TDP of 150 Watts with a 1.266GHz clock speed I doubt power consumption will be any higher than current consoles.
If PS4K sticks with 911Mhz then it's likely because they want it to also be a slim model as well and the lower clock speed makes that easier.
MilkyJoe
Member
480X ?
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
I'm not sure can Xbox One size box hold a 1200mhz GPU lol.
Btw, when will Zen CPU release? there is likely Scorpio (also) waiting Zen.
dead monkey uk
Member
Agree 100%, I am looking forward to see how the Neo CPU effects current games. For example Infamous, Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 are all games that I have noticed the fps dropping. An increase in the CPU clock may be enough to solve this with no patch needed.
Sounds better than saying our system is outpowered by ps4, please buy our machine instead.
NXGamer
Member
It can, it is simply that the method is not as effective as being divisible by the same integer . The firmware update for 90Hz display mode on the PSVR well just offer choice and easier Vive/OR ports with scalled back visuals.
Stop being wrong please. My R9 280 runs very cool in my small form factor build and based on benchmarks and graphs, it does not run significantly hotter than Nvidias offerings.
Aceofspades
Banned
I think Sony is even looking for a NEO architecture that very compatible with current PS4 games, for example I can run The Order 1886 on Neo by simply putting the disc and game will run flawlessly with no bugs or problems.
You don't want to confuse 40m users with NEO.
i think the consideration is more long term.
If Sony intends to roll out a PS5 in 2-3 years and want to support ps5 and ps4k in the same way (same games on the same disc) and phase out ps4 support, the lowest common denominator would be these jaguar cores. That would be a problem for maintaining the same cpu in the neo.
If they intend to start a new generation then the neo cpu is inconsequential.
I think that's the consideration they are having.
Shtof
Member
Don't let this arms race confuse you. Consoles are still going to die, and an arms race is the perfect way to go out with a bang.
Why is it unsurprising? Also he said the TARGET is 6. Never said it was. Because not even MS probably knows at this point.
wasn't a xbox slim rumour too?
Small form factor: XB Slim for casual console user
Scorpio: big form factor, hardcore gamers, their main target, sure won't care much about that.
I'm fairly certain the leaked Neo policies indicate that software will perform exactly the same as on a standard PS4 without a patch - i.e. standard PS4 binaries will run in a 'standard' mode on Neo, probably with the CPU physically clocked to the same rate as the standard machine, and standard PS4's worth of GPU resources exposed via the hypervisor. They can't really risk fidgeting with the performance profile of existing games in an automatic fashion given how some games can do weird things linked to the framerate etc.
Opus Angelorum
Member
It has never been suggested it would run games at 4K. Only for media output.
NoctisVsStar
Member
A better CPU would be nice but I'll still be there day one for Neo.
Shtof
Member
It won't. But it can run pretty much anything at 1080p60FPS.