wesleyshark
Banned
We are? Missed that announcementIt was. DF seen it running in front of him. Actually we are getting a video soon about the Forza demo itself soon
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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
Actually DF said the opposite . They said all cars were on track and GPU works harder to render all.. Richard said that when less cars are on track it was 55% said it fluctuated and odd time hit 70%.. This is unoptimized code
soundscream
Member
There were screenshots of rain when jalopnik toured turn 10 a year the realease of FM3, rain didnt arrive till FM6. Turn 10 is committed to 60fps games, if a feature hits the performance it gets cut.
It's in one of the vids. He stated that he was going to release a more detailed video on the Forza demo. There's going to be more articles and videos on Scorpio. This wasn't the whole detailed analysis on the hardware
they sure are
Kurt Angle
Member
give me the numbers in Dragon ball z power levels please
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I have yet to see what you mention become an issue. PC games support a wide range of CPUs with a huge difference in power between minimum and recommended specs and yet it has never become an issue. Even in the Xbox One / PS4 gen I have yet to see some of those so called next gen experiences that only the new CPUs could provide. Everything we see right now could be scaled down to Xbox 360 and PS3 if needed to.
Liabe Brave
Member
The extra CUs is correct, but Scorpio has less GPU RAM, and slower, versus RX480.
That doesn't contradict anything I said.
I've read the articles and watched the videos and can't find where he said that at all. Every reference I've seen to him watching a demo was to the lower effects version. Please provide a link to the quote for your claim.
It's not certain that there's major overhead still available. Matching highest PC settings pinned GPU utilization to the same level as Forza on original Xbox One, i.e. that's where they'd have to quit if they don't want to drop frames. Optimization may achieve more before launch, but we can't know how much.
Note that I do think Forza will have further improvements, though, because it's a relatively undemanding/highly optimized title to begin with. We just haven't seen proof of this.
Colbert
Banned
LOL. I really can recommend a feature of this forum named "Ignore list". With a starter set this thread is a much better read.
Matching highest PC settings at 4K is really impressive though...
Deckard Chapel
Banned
So tell me if I'm right - Red Dead Redemption 2 releases on Scorpio and PS4 Pro. Like a PC game, the Blu-ray discs have 2 different sets of assets on them, one for play on PS4/Xbone and one for play on PS4 Pro/Scorpio.
The assets for the Pro/Scorpio will be dependant on the system architecture and given the strengths of the Scorpio, it is assumed it will be the definitive version of RDR2.
So, The PS4 version will be superior to the Xbone version, correct?
...but the the Xbone Blu-Ray will have the Scorpio version assets on it to create the ultimate version - even though the Xbone version is inferior to the PS4 Pro version...and the PS4 regular game is the definitive version at vanilla level.
Is that accurate?
The assets for the Pro/Scorpio will be dependant on the system architecture and given the strengths of the Scorpio, it is assumed it will be the definitive version of RDR2.
So, The PS4 version will be superior to the Xbone version, correct?
...but the the Xbone Blu-Ray will have the Scorpio version assets on it to create the ultimate version - even though the Xbone version is inferior to the PS4 Pro version...and the PS4 regular game is the definitive version at vanilla level.
Is that accurate?
Liabe Brave
Member
It's pretty great! Which is why it's hard to understand people who are claiming that there's still giant leaps left to take.
Probably. But depending on the size of the assets versus the space on the Blu-ray, the Scorpio version may require you to download extra textures that aren't on the disc.
Here
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-06-project-scorpio-explained
Did you see it running a game?
Yes. Well, a ForzaTech demo, which is a stress test based on the Forza Motorsport 6 engine, running the maximum number of cars around a track with dynamic weather and all the bells and whistles turned on.
How did it do?
Smashed it. At the same graphics quality settings as Xbox One, the demo ran at a full 4K resolution, at a perfect 60 frames per second. For Xbox One to do this at a standard HD resolution of 1080p uses about 90 per cent of that console's power. Scorpio was only using 60-70 per cent of its resources to run this demo. The graphics settings were then ramped up to the equivalent of the ultra settings on the PC game Forza Motorsport Apex, and Scorpio still didn't break a sweat.
I hate to be the one who says this but Forza's graphics, even on PC ultra, are nothing to write home about, so why the big deal they got it running at 4k with some resources to spare?
I'd like to see if Horizon 3 translates to a 60FPS title though, now that would be quite cool.
soundscream
Member
Jaguar Victory
Member
I'm going to need receipts on this
Colbert
Banned
It could be turn out this way but nobody knows until the game is released:
Scorpio: native 4K or dynamic up to native 4K, 4K assets
PS4 Pro: checkerboard 4K or dynamic up to 1800p, normal assets
PS4: native 1080p, normal assets
Xbox One: dynamic Resolution 900p - 1080p, normal assets
All platforms will have same target frame rate!
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I'm predicting incoming link to random gaf forum-ite.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
What are 4k assets and what are normal assets?
As far as I can reason, PR buzz for higher res textures.
Beerman462
Member
Thay also gave the ok to make Scorpio exclusives.
Assets where 3GB of ram can allow with the bandwidth accomidating it. There's many pc titles with 4k textures and such. Gears of War 4 is one and it looks a lot better than the assets in XB1. Now I just thought about Gears 4 running on Scorpio at 4k with the ultra assets. Bring it
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Are there any comparisons?
They way this is talked about always makes it sound like a certain threshold has to be surpassed, but I guess the improvement is gradually?
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Errr, what? I'm looking at some RX480 reference numbers now, but I'd like to see your work first.
Relatively undemanding =/= Highly optimized, vice versa
Colbert
Banned
Assets is a term of content that you package into your game that not belongs to your game executables and libraries. Assets contain image files, textures files, audio files, video files and other files that are used in your game.
In my example normal assets are optimized for 1080p output which means images are stored as 1080p, textures comes in a resolution sufficient for 1080p output, videos are 1080p and so on.
4K assets instead are optimized for 4K output which means they come in 4 times the resolution of those normal assets and due to that have a 4 times bigger footprint in memory. This is valid for images, textures and video.
Edit:
Game develop and production of art is normally done in higher resolutions than the actual games resolution and will scaled down for the different target resolutions of the specific platform it is running on. For example Halo 5 art was produced in 4K even the game never released on a platform yet that could handle that resolution. The actual assets of the game you install on your harddrive are supersampled 1080p versions of those assets.
Jaguar Victory
Member
PR buzz? It's literally assets (art, textures, etc) that are in full 4k resolution.
I'm sure you can look up gears of war texture comparisons. It's not going to be 4k textures across the boarded for all textures. I believe the term is being used loosely here, while some textures may indeed be 4k resolution the majority will only be set and adjusted to something suitable for 4k displays.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Holy shit. Someone thinks 4k assets/textures is a buzzword?
(Only seen last two posts of Colbert n jaguar)
LelouchZero
Member
The RX 480 8GB model has 8GB of memory to itself, meanwhile the Scorpio has 8GB to use for games as whole, this would be for the CPU and the GPU to use.
Unless they free some of the 4GB reserved the RX 480 has more memory than the Scorpio can use for the CPU and GPU combined.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Thank you for understanding what I meant - it did sound rather complicated after rereading it, so I'm glad that someone got it!
I guess the main question would be if Rockstar decides to take full advantage of the power of the GPU for example in the Scorpio, will there be extra assets, better textures, more trees and grass, more NPC's on-screen, better graphics overall? I guess I'm trying to ask will it look completely, drastically and obviously different and better than the PS4 Pro version?
Like a "hands-down" sort of situation regarding a definitive version of this game.
Only saying that because it really only applies to textures and feel the term 4k assets implies more, and seems to make people think it's more.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I know what assets are, but what does it mean to optimize for 1080p out or optimize for 4k output?
And does it only affect textures? Or for example objects, too?
PR buzz? It's literally assets (art, textures, etc) that are in full 4k resolution.
They all look like shit, though. Are those already 4k textures?
Jaguar Victory
Member
Textures are basically everything. A great quality texture brings us closer to photorealistic games.
Objects are covered in textures. As for the quality of the texture that's really up to the artists.
Colbert
Banned
Yes it was hard to understand but I somehow guessed what you wanted to know
Check out my comment above where I detail the term assets a little bit. Games currently in development are produced on the highest possible resolution as it is easier to downsample art than to upsample because with upsampling you lose image quality. For RDR2 we can strongly assume that the production of the assets will be at 4K or above (yes above) so the assets we are talking about are there for usage. I don't see any reason why Rockstar shouldn't use those assets on a platform able to handle it.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Here is one. http://images.nvidia.com/geforce-co...teractive-comparison-001-ultra-vs-medium.html and that is from medium to Ultra. The difference is definitely apparent.
And the entire guide if interested. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/gu...nce-guide#gears-of-war-4-world-texture-detail
Kinda Off Topic but gears is one of the best optimized games I've ever played on PC and one of the best, if not the best, port as well. It is amazing on PC.
EDIT: Also, these guides are flipping amazing.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Agreed. That's why I'm so very interested in the Scorpio. I'm a Sony fan - but if Scorpio can deliver "definitive" versions of 3rd party titles, then I want one.
I could care less about any of Microsoft's first-party titles - I'm done with Halo, I could care less about Forza, Quantum Break and Alan Wake just don't interest me - I'm much more a fan of Sony's first party titles from studios like Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica and the like; but things like Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption 2, or the next Grand Theft Auto, or Call of Duty for example - I want to know I'm playing the "definitive" version of them and if the developers take the time to make the game perfect using all the specs we know about for the Scorpio - then like I said, I want one
They are great im not arguing that, modeling and lighting is also very important as well. Just not a fan of the term in how its used, it even confuses people that do know a bit about how games are made.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
I'm in the same boat and that's why I'm asking the questions that I've been asking.
I don't want to buy a Scorpio for a significantly higher price than a PS4 Pro, only to realize that there's no discernable difference in any third party title that I'm interested in and that I could have saved money by just buying a Pro.
EDIT: I just realized that the Sony first-party exclusives that I'm excited about - if I want to play them in their definitive versions, I'm going to have to buy a Pro anyways.
Shit, that means I'll have to have a Pro and a Scorpio to ease my OCD about only playing the definitive versions of games that I want ... my wallet is already aching
Asherdude
Member
I've got Forza 6 on my XB1. It looks good, but it doesn't look that good. I checked online too and I can't find any screenshots that comes close to that one. So, yeah, those are 4k assets.DF
"The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one."
The screenshot below is the Forza demo running in 4K 60FPS and 4k assets with only about 66% gpu usage. Maybe we'll get more videos and pics from DF but i doubt it. I'm sure Turn 10 wants Forza 7 to be the showcase
arhra
Member
Yes it was hard to understand but I somehow guessed what you wanted to know
Check out my comment above where I detail the term assets a little bit. Games currently in development are produced on the highest possible resolution as it is easier to downsample art than to upsample because with upsampling you lose image quality. For RDR2 we can strongly assume that the production of the assets will be at 4K or above (yes above) so the assets we are talking about are there for usage. I don't see any reason why Rockstar shouldn't use those assets on a platform able to handle it.
On the other hand, I highly doubt they'll be shipping enhanced assets on-disc. There just won't be space for them. Even games designed purely for the original XB1/PS4, with no consideration for 4k whatsoever, are straining that 50GB capacity to it's limits (and beyond, in a few cases).
Colbert
Banned
If you know what assets are why not just ask a more detailed question next time? I cannot look into your head.
Optimized for 1080p means that you provide art files (images, textures, videos) with maximum level of detail you can see on a 1080p output device. It wouldn't make sense to provide 4K level of detail as you would need it to downsample anyway. You do that because you want to save your footprint in the graphics memory and on your storage drive.
This is not only valid to textures as I already pointed out above.
Objects are typically represented by polygon meshes which in result makes them resolution independent. Thats why mesh and textures are separated from each other.
Yep that's why the extra ram is so big. It will be the biggest difference between Scorpio and the pro. Glad ms stepped it up on that front.
Colbert
Banned
I have no idea how they plan to provide those assets. I personally believe it will require an additional download.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Thanks. I guess whats confusing me is that it seems to be that ultra textures(I assume those are 4k textures) also appear in the "low" settings.
For example here: http://images.nvidia.com/geforce-co...-interactive-comparison-001-ultra-vs-low.html
Some textures are lower res, but most character textures as the same as on ultra.
I'd imagine that you can always load some 4k assets, in theory XB1 could do that, too, but it could just load way less 4k assets than Scorpio. Is that right?
So when you have a larger scene you can focus the memory budget on the important assets, for example skin textures and cloth textures so the characters in focus look good.
But Scorpio can also make the background look really good while Xb1 would have to make drastic cutbacks here.
Wishmaster92
Member
There are definitely better comparisons lol. It will look really good especially when the game resolution is 4k native.
I would hope ce versions would have a separate disk with the 4k assets. Be nice extra touch imo.