Support NeoGAF

[Vire]

PS4 version 78. You posted a last gen version with less reviews.

Gamestop gave it a 8

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/call-of-duty-ghosts

Okay? 73? 78? The point stands, the game got criticized for being too similar to it's predecessor.

Gamespot giving it an 8 is largely irrelevant because it was reviewed by two different reviewers who may prioritize things differently. Not everyone is the same.

 

[Sendou]

I preordered the game but and loved the one on the Wii but they should have made Metroid 1st to try to attract a different type of audience. DK could have came after Metroid. The audience that bought Mario will buy DK. They already have Wii U. It isn't attracting a new audience like Metroid could

Metroid Prime didn't sell worth shit. But that's besides the point. That argument has no place in here really.

 

[Crom]

To me it depends on how distinct those phases are. If the boss just turns red from anger and starts moving faster and throwing out more attacks I don't feel like that should be counted as a phase and you should get a checkpoint at that part. If halfway through the battle, the boss busts a hole in the wall and throws DK into another section of the level and it shifts from an on foot boss battle to a rocket barrel boss level, then a third phase happens and you're back on foot, but are overcoming a distinctly different challenge (whatever that may be), then I can see not having check points a problem.

But if all bosses work the way that first Sea Lion boss works... I see no need for checkpoints.

Agreed. I am assuming that bosses will have distinct phases. Could be wrong. In those cases he has a point but his review is still shit and his score is a joke. I personally don't like Metal Gear games but I would never give them a 6 because I know that they are quality.

 

[chadboban]

There is absolutely nothing in the new games like Misty Menace..

I don't know if creepy is the right word for the music, but just to give you an example of the changes:

Stickerbrush Symphony in DKC2

Stickerbrush Symphony in DKC TF

One is a lot more moody/calm cool collected than the other. I vastly prefer the old style to new, but hey that's just my opinion.

I can understand the preference for the older tracks. As a matter of fact I didn't really like the new Stickerbush Symphony when I first heard it, but it's grown on me quite a bit since then and I really love it now.

Also loving remixes like this one.
Mangrove Cave Underwater Theme
love the track for this level as well
Scorch n' Torch
And this one is one of my favorites especially when the music kicks in at around 1:02
Amiss Abyss
Also love that most levels now have dynamic music, notice how the music changes in this whenever you're sliding on a vine.
Wing Ding
I think the main villains (the snomads) theme is excellent as well
Snowmads Theme

 

[Ansatz]

I would be much more excited to play this

So this is presentation related and not about gameplay mechanics, level design, puzzle piece placement and things of that nature.

You would play DKC 2 due to its immersion factor, but avoid DKC TF because it's too light hearted.

I have recently understood this fact and why Rayman Legends is considered a better platformer than NSMB U. I can never understand how immersion plays such a huge role in people's taste of games, the fact that a game purchase depends on it.

 

[Alebrije]

The game is fine , but also still think it was a waste of resources , any other team could achive a descent platform.

Hope the estudio has the chance to work on a new IP or at least on a Metroid game

This Dk game will sell Well but is not a game changer

 

[Crom]

Metroid Prime didn't sell worth shit. But that's besides the point. That argument has no place in here really.

It sold well but DK sold better. That isn't the point. Audiences that play something like Mario already got the Wii U for Mario. This is the same audience that will play DK. DK will not move systems.

Metroid may sell less units than DK but a Metroid game offers a much better chance of expanding the Wii U audience and would likely move more systems than DK.

I love the Wii DK. Just speaking the truth.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

They're a dying breed besides Nintendo and indies.

We should be excited for any we get in modern day gaming rather than taking them for granted.

If they aren't your thing, cool.

But don't take them for granted because you don't favor them.

They're a staple in gaming and there's a reason why there are hundreds of these so-called samey games(indie scene) and people still look forward to playing them.

The good ones always have their own feel and flair and personality.

Pretty much. It's so rare to get a decent sized team/budget for a console 2D platformer these days. Game's like Rayman, DK, and even the console NSMB games should be savored. I am VERY eagerly awaiting info on Yarn Yoshi...

 

[The Xtortionist]

There is absolutely nothing in the new games like Misty Menace..

I don't know if creepy is the right word for the music, but just to give you an example of the changes:

One is a lot more moody/calm cool collected than the other. I vastly prefer the old style to new, but hey that's just my opinion.

Agreed about Misty Menace. I think its probably one of the most overlooked tracks in any video game. But I'm just saying those types of tracks were the exception, rather than the norm, especially in DKC2.

TF definitely has a few calmer, sometimes moodier tracks. Check out Amiss Abyss (especially about halfway through when it slows down) and Scorch n' Torch for now. The levels 2-1 and 2-A also have some more of what you might be looking for, but we don't have decent Youtube videos with clear sound of them yet.

edit - chadboban beat me like a government mule

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I think one of two things must be true. The first is that I don't need to agree with its so-called objective quality. I'm competent in the genre and if I'm not feeling what the game is trying to do, I should review it thusly. The other possibility is that I'm just not the target player for the title, and perhaps someone else should handle it. I allow for this possibility simply because of instances in the past where -- for instance -- that IGN reviewer tore into Soccer Manager because it wasn't FIFA. Obviously, in that case, it is worth noting that the reviewer didn't go into the title with the right perspective.

Seeing Game Informer's review and how much of a contrast it is to Gamespot's, I'm guessing its a little of both on GS's part:

I read both reviews thoroughly and they're quite polarizing: for example Gamespot criticizes the level design and enemy placement calling it unfair and poorly designed. He also knocked on the checkpoint system saying it was frustrating. Whereas Game Informer praises the level design saying it is never unfair but requires patience and skill to get through.

Another difference is their opinion on the visuals. Gamespot says the game is dull and bland with levels that are unimaginative and safe. While GI praises the visuals saying they're beautifully imaginative with lots of variety.

Another note on GS's review states how the reviewer didn't even bother getting all the collectibles. So either he hated the game so much that he didn't bother OR it was too hard and didn't bother!

Like I said, they're polar opposites. Interesting for sure.

 

[Sendou]

It sold well but DK sold better. That isn't the point. Audiences that play something like Mario already got the Wii U for Mario. This is the same audience that will play DK. DK will not move systems.

Metroid may sell less units than DK but a Metroid game offers a much better chance of expanding the Wii U audience and would likely move more systems than DK.

I love the Wii DK. Just speaking the truth.

Yeah I realize what you were going after there but I don't see how it's relevant to anything I said.

 

[GetemMa]

what are you talking about?

That's one example where they weren't given a free pass when there are countless other examples where "grown up games" (I think that means they are violent, have no challenge, and a silly self serious narrative) are totally given a free pass for being derivative which apparently only Nintendo does that.

AC Revelations, AC3, Uncharted 3, every COD since MW2, BF4, Gears 3, etc... I could do this all day.

Thing is, this doesn't bother man THAT much. It does a little but I am glad they kept making AC games because I loved 4. I hope they make another BF game because I really don't like 4 and I want the series to improve because I love the gameplay and the tactics just 4's maps suck. Same as I hope Retro makes more Donkey Kong games, not right away but I hope this isn't the end of the series because they are great.

Reviewers who judge a game through the prism of what they personally think the developer should be doing instead is a really odd way to review a game that doesn't really help a person decide to purchase it or not.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

The game is fine , but also still think it was a waste of resources , any other team could achive a descent platform.

Hope the estudio has the chance to work on a new IP or at least on a Metroid game

This Dk game will sell Well but is not a game changer

Of course Nintendo has several teams that can make a decent 2D platformer, but only one or two that can make a GOTY worthy one like Retro. I'm sure Nintendo has other teams that could make Metroid too.

 

[DjRoomba]

There is absolutely nothing in the new games like Misty Menace..

I don't know if creepy is the right word for the music, but just to give you an example of the changes:

Stickerbrush Symphony in DKC2

Stickerbrush Symphony in DKC TF

One is a lot more moody/calm cool collected than the other. I vastly prefer the old style to new, but hey that's just my opinion.

Well the game itself isnt anywhere near as dark or moody as the original trilogy, so Im sure Dave Wise conciously reflected that withe music

 

[Gsnap]

Okay? 73? 78? The point stands, the game got criticized for being too similar to it's predecessor.

Yeah, finally. It takes one Call of Duty every year since around 2006 for people to start criticizing them for their familiarity, but the 2nd DKC game by Retro, 3 years after it's predecessor (which was released 15 years after DKC3) immediately gets criticized for being too similar?

I do take issue with that.

I understand franchise fatigue (I've had enough NSMB for a long time), but it's ridiculous that this criticism is imposed on only the 2nd DKC game Retro has made.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I actually really hated the checkpoint at the final boss of DKCR.

You would start without Diddy because they didn't just auto-give you a partner there because ????? so you only get one Kong if you died after the first try.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Read the Gamespot review from start to finish and it just screams "this is too hard (for me)"

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-review/1900-6415667/

What's baffling is how the reviewer loves platformers. But platformers are the oldest and most traditionally revered genre in gaming. I don't know how you can truly love platforms but say DKC TF is stuck in the past. Just saying.

 

[Out of Working Order]

This really has divided opinion. I just think it's funny that we can have one reviewer that praises the game as one of the most 'inventive', 'innovative' games in the genre - 'a shining gem' - but another that marks the game lowly for having boring, 'unimaginative' level design, saying it does 'nothing new', and neither is it an 'exceptional example' of the genre.

 

[Crom]

Okay? 73? 78? The point stands, the game got criticized for being too similar to it's predecessor.

Gamespot giving it an 8 is largely irrelevant because it was reviewed by two different reviewers who may prioritize things differently. Not everyone is the same.

The game didn't receive low scores because it was more of the same. Black Ops averaged 88% for example and that was the millionth Call of Duty.

Many people complain about Ghosts because the single player campaign was mediocre and the multiplayer is bad. People complained that the maps were one bid circle and the level design was bad.

 

[Crom]

This really has divided opinion. I just think it's funny that we can have one reviewer that praises the game for inventive level design - marking it highly - but another that marks the game lowly for having boring, unimaginative level design.

If it is anything like the Wii game then the level design is amazing and far from boring. Based on the previews that I have saw it looks like an improvement on the Wii game.

It looks wild with a lot of variety.

 

[Vire]

The game didn't receive low scores because it was more of the same. Black Ops averaged 88% for example and that was the millionth Call of Duty.

Many people complain about Ghosts because the single player campaign was mediocre and the multiplayer is bad. People complained that the maps were one bid circle and the level design was bad.

Are you really going to make me dig out the quotes? From Meta Critic:

Call of Duty is a series that's getting stagnant. This latest edition is a solid shooter, with highly tuned mechanics, an addictive multiplayer offering, and a plethora of content to play through – but it very much feels like a familiar game with a few minor adjustments. The new Extinction mode is particularly good, but it's the highlight in a title that's following a tired recipe.

Ghosts is certainly not a bad game, but it offers few surprises. Although Black Ops II wasn’t always successful, it felt like it was conscious of stagnation and attempted to push the series forward through player choice in the campaign and the introduction of the 10-point system in multiplayer. By comparison, Ghosts seems almost afraid of screwing anything up.

Call of Duty: Ghosts is a solid installment, but it lacks creativity and innovation. Its new engine already looks dated in the face of the competition, and it eschews many of the solid concepts seen in Black Ops 2.

There's like 10 others but you get the point.

Yeah, finally. It takes one Call of Duty every year since around 2006 for people to start criticizing them for their familiarity, but the 2nd DKC game by Retro, 3 years after it's predecessor (which was released 15 years after DKC3) immediately gets criticized for being too similar?

I do take issue with that.

I understand franchise fatigue (I've had enough NSMB for a long time), but it's ridiculous that this criticism is imposed on only the 2nd DKC game Retro has made.

I think it's fair to say that reviewers have gotten tougher on this issue as years gone by. Stagnation is a pretty large problem in the industry right now.

 

[Ansatz]

What's baffling is how the reviewer loves platformers. But platformers are the oldest and most traditionally revered genre in gaming. I don't know how you can truly love platforms but say DKC TF is stuck in the past. Just saying.

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

Well, that's all I needed to know.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I actually really hated the checkpoint at the final boss of DKCR.

You would start without Diddy because they didn't just auto-give you a partner there because ????? so you only get one Kong if you died after the first try.

Getting to the top after that rocket section (I hated the DKCR rockets) and then dying on the first try of the final boss and losing Diddy felt utter shit. One of my least favourite parts about Returns.

 

[IceCold]

.

 

[Madouu]

I loved the rocket sections.

 

[Crom]

Getting to the top after that rocket section (I hated the DKCR rockets) and then dying on the first try of the final boss and losing Diddy felt utter shit. One of my least favourite parts about Returns.

Yep. Rocket parts were the worst part of the game. Hopefully they work different in this one.

 

[Gannd]

A lot of people recoil at games that require system mastery to beat/get far into. We have turned this industry to a content tourism business. Let me sit down and go forward and experience all the spectacle you've produced for me. Having to learn how to play something or master a system is a bad thing for a lot of people. They just want to tour the content. Which is fine... I guess. Just makes me a little sad.

 

[chadboban]

Agreed about Misty Menace. I think its probably one of the most overlooked tracks in any video game. But I'm just saying those types of tracks were the exception, rather than the norm, especially in DKC2.

TF definitely has a few calmer, sometimes moodier tracks. Check out Amiss Abyss (especially about halfway through when it slows down) and Scorch n' Torch for now. The levels 2-1 and 2-A also have some more of what you might be looking for, but we don't have decent Youtube videos with clear sound of them yet.

edit - chadboban beat me like a government mule

LOL. Great minds and all that.

 

[Dawg]

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

 

[codhand]

i still have no idea how i beat that last boss, it was like an accidental roll or smth, really badly designed. still love the game overall.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

Wow. Okay, makes sense now.

 

[Gsnap]

I think it's fair to say that reviewers have gotten tougher on this issue as years gone by. Stagnation is a pretty large problem in the industry right now.

If this is a sign of things to come and we see this criticism being implied fairly across games, then fine.

But even then. I don't think the second game of any series should be criticized for not reinventing the wheel.

 

[Kinsei]

i still have no idea how i beat that last boss, it was like an accidental roll or smth, really badly designed. still love the game overall.

He only had one attack that was really difficult to dodge, all of the rest just required well time jumps or standing between fireballs SMW Bowser style. That and he gave out extra hearts quite frequently.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Yep. Rocket parts were the worst part of the game. Hopefully they work different in this one.

By virtue of having two hits on the rockets and

Spoiler

hearts given tp you for the arts at least in the earlier levels, not sure about later ones yet

so far the rockets feel a big improvement.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

WHERE DID YOU BURY WRINKLY KONG'S BODY

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID YOU BASTARD KONG

 

[Jagsrock]

I think the most glaring thing in the negative review is that they acknowledge that it's better then DKCR. Which is weird, so does that mean DKCR should be rated even lower? They also seem to be criticizing the wii u within their reviews lowering the score because it's "not the savior" of the wii u or just another platformer. Then you have people criticizing difficulty which should be a pro not a con. It's almost as if some of them are fishing for cons. Edge is probably the most balanced 7 with mains concerns being " moments of frustratingly cheap design" and "simpler pleasures are dulled by familiarity". Other then that their review almost reads like a 9.

 

[Vire]

If this is a sign of things to come and we see this criticism being implied fairly across games, then fine.

But even then. I don't think the second game of any series should be criticized for not reinventing the wheel.

To say it's the second game is a little disingenuous though. It's the fifth if we are being perfectly honest...

I also think it's being penalized for being a part of continuing trend of many Nintendo games of being very similar to the predecessors.

I think the most glaring thing in the negative review is that they acknowledge that it's better then DKCR. Which is weird, so does that mean DKCR should be rated even lower? They also seem to be criticizing the wii u within their reviews lowering the score because it's "not the savior" of the wii u or just another platformer. Then you have people criticizing difficulty which should be a pro not a con. It's almost as if some of them are fishing for cons. Edge is probably the most balanced 7 with mains concerns being " moments of frustratingly cheap design" and "simpler pleasures are dulled by familiarity". Other then that their review almost reads like a 9.

Novelty is worth something to some people.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I loved the rocket sections.

They piss me off a lot of the time but I am very happy they are back.

 

[Out of Working Order]

There isn&#8217;t really much to say that&#8217;s positive about Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, and that&#8217;s not because it isn&#8217;t &#8211; as a whole &#8211; a fun experience to play through. It absolutely is.

This is confusing.

They reiterate over and over that the game doesn't feel particularly new or different. But why are the levels fun to play through? They play up the bad points but gloss over the good aspects as unimportant in the review.

 

[Gsnap]

To say it's the second game is a little disingenuous though. It's the fifth if we are being perfectly honest...

I also think it's being penalized for being a part of continuing trend of many Nintendo games of being very similar to the predecessors.

If we're being completely 100% honest in every possible way... sure. But if we're being realistic, it's the second. The old DKC games were so, so long ago, they were made by a completely different team, and they were very different overall. You've said so yourself in this thread.

And a Nintendo trend (that doesn't apply to all of their titles), that shouldn't reflect on this game's quality.

 

[braves01]

To say it's the second game is a little disingenuous though. It's the fifth if we are being perfectly honest...

I think it's more disingenuous to act like DKCR and TF are just more of the same DKC 1, 2, and 3. The Retro games are so much better than the Rare Donkey Kong games in terms of how they play it's practically a new series.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I was actually furious when this happened. Didn't finish the game because of it.

I managed eventually but I have always wondered if it was an oversight or a deliberate fuck you.

 

[Out of Working Order]

I think it's more disingenuous to act like DKCR and TF are just more of the same DKC 1, 2, and 3. The Retro games are so much better than the Rare Donkey Kong games in terms of how they play it's practically a new series.

Agreed. It played very differently.

This new series has a more weighty character, and dynamic levels that react to the weight of the character. You do run left to right, but that's largely where the similarities end.

 

[Neiteio]

I was actually furious when this happened. Didn't finish the game because of it.

The Demon's Souls of platformers. That's your health penalty for going hollow.

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<

Oh man

 

[zashga]

Reviews seem to be shaping up much like DKCR: generally positive, but skewing a little on the low side for AAA. Not going to argue about outlier scores before I get the game myself, but there's nothing about getting "just a platformer" that bothers me.

The reviewer scored Puppeteer a 9/10.

That is all.

Well, just based on DKCR, Puppeteer is pretty much the opposite game: little to no challenge, eclectic under-developed gameplay, huge emphasis on presentation and story. It makes sense that someone who loves Puppeteer doesn't like DK. I feel exactly the opposite way.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

To say it's the second game is a little disingenuous though. It's the fifth if we are being perfectly honest...

That's like saying that Yoshi's Island is the fifth/sixth (depending on how you treat SMB2 USA) Mario Bros. game. I mean, yeah, it technically is... but can you really hold that against it when it's so dramatically different?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Oh man

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I managed eventually but I have always wondered if it was an oversight or a deliberate fuck you.

Considering a couple of the other weird quirks in DKCR like time trials not resetting when you die despite getting sent back to the start of a stage, I'm assuming it was an oversight.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

I can see what you're saying, but it doesn't take rocket science or a art scholar to differentiate between a truly bad game vs a personal opinion.

Like a really good car that's not your style: if you don't like the way it looks, fine, but it's not fair to tell everyone that the car is just bad because you don't like it especially if the car is built well, is safe to drive, and a good price.

That's where we differ, I guess, because I think that is fair. I may not agree with the reviewer on what's important, but that doesn't mean he/she is wrong for relying upon his/her own criteria for evaluating something. "Cup holders are too big" may seem like a silly reason to dock a car for, but again I'm free to disregard that review (and reviewer) as not being in line with my tastes.

And I disagree with the premise behind that example, actually. Cars, even luxury ones, are much more utilitarian than games. It has a clear function which defines certain "objective" parameters (speed, fuel efficiency, safety) by which to judge them by. Games aren't like that, at all.

A game could be a perfectly realized example of its particular genre, and a person might still legitimately hate it and have perfectly good reasons for doing so. We should welcome all opinions, even as we grant some more weight than others based on our own opinions and tastes