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[StreetsAhead]

Because much of the time its not an honest critique and just whining about a number which is not as high as a poster expects and takes it as a personal insult. This happens too much. Conspiracy theories, insults etc.

So, we shouldn't critique reviews at all? (I edited my post slightly, but was too slow). Yes, people who are terrible and cry wolf at every lower than expected score are counter-productive. But discussion about whether a review is right to tie their score to optional console features, other franchises the developer could have been working on, or litter the review with comments about the state of the industry/publisher/console(s) it's on are valid. Discussion about whether a reviewer was bad at the game, or mis-represents its features in the review shouldn't be off-limits.

 

[VanWinkle]

So, we shouldn't critique reviews at all? (I edited my post slightly, but was too slow). Yes, people who are terrible and cry wolf at every lower than expected score are counter-productive. But discussion about whether a review is right to tie their score to optional console features, other franchises the developer could have been working on, or litter the review with comments about the state of the industry/publisher/console(s) it's on are valid. Discussion about whether a reviewer was bad at the game, or mis-represents its features in the review shouldn't be off-limits.

A big problem often arises from the fact that reviewers have played the game and the people criticizing the reviews haven't.

 

[Lijik]

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

Definitely. As someone who primarily follows this genre, im always baffled when people act like its a dying breed. Like there was that thread a while back about Nintendo putting out 4 platformers on the wii u in a years time and the OP said "What other major console does this??" like it was some crazy thing but in the same exact timespan, Sony put out the same amount. Theres been a very healthy amount the past few years, and a good chunk of them are generally considered modern classics.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So, we shouldn't critique reviews at all? (I edited my post slightly, but was too slow). Yes, people who are terrible and cry wolf at every lower than expected score are counter-productive. But discussion about whether a review is right to tie their score to optional console features, other franchises the developer could have been working on, or litter the review with comments about the state of the industry/publisher/console(s) it's on are valid. Discussion about whether a reviewer was bad at the game, or mis-represents its features in the review shouldn't be off-limits.

If all discussion on reviews were constructive critiques, instead of so much reactionary rage, yeah there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

A big problem often arises from the fact that reviewers have played the game and the people criticizing the reviews haven't.

That's fair to say if it's the first game in a new series or a first game in a revived series like DKC Returns was

I think it's likewise fair, in this case, to criticize or question reviews especially if a review claims the sequel is better than its predecessor OR when there are more positive reviews that share totally opposite opinions that contradict the criticisms of the negative reviews.

To me it's fair to question these reviews (in a respectful matter I might add) because a lot of us played the first game. So in a sense we did play the game before.

What we want to know is if it's better than the first game? The majority of reviews claim it is. We're just questioning the reviews that say it's not and discussing why their opinion, or our own criticisms of their reviews, are valid or not.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Just to share some more views on this:

1) Negative review A says: Tropical Freeze is better than the first, but it's more of the same. So it's a 6.

My reaction: If the first game got a great score and the second is a better game, is it fair to give it a worse score even if it doesn't do anything new?

2) Negative Review B says: Tropical Freeze is frustrating, difficult, with many cheap deaths and unforgiving checkpoints. So it's a 6.

My reaction: More reviews praise the challenge and level design saying it's not unfair but only requires patience and skill to beat them. So is it the game's fault for these shortcomings OR is it the shortcoming of the reviewer's gaming skills who had a difficult time playing the game?

3) Negative Review C says: Tropical Freeze looks dull and bland and the levels look the same.

My reaction: The majority of reviews praise the level design and visuals saying its beautiful with great variety. So the review claiming its dull and bland and looking the same, is it just a bias or are they truly giving valid criticisms to why they're dull and bland?

I know everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I respect that, but these are just the things that stood out from the negative reviews and my reaction to them.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Just to share some more views on this:

1) Negative review A says: Tropical Freeze is better than the first, but it's more of the same. So it's a 6.

My reaction: If the first game got a great score and the second is a better game, is it fair to give it a worse score even if it doesn't do anything new?

Too many people are focusing on the numerical score. I mean, if you liked the first one, and they are saying its better than the first one, isn't that the important part to focus on?

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Too many people are focusing on the numerical score. I mean, if you liked the first one, and they are saying its better than the first one, isn't that the important part to focus on?

Yes, of course!

I'm just questioning the review itself and if it's a fair or professional way of scoring a game. Because let's face it, whether we like it or not, a score does matter when it comes to sales.

Not that DKC TF will sell a ton on the Wii U, but that's besides the point!

Another example is a game like Singularity that also had polarizing reviews.

When a review says the game is good and fun but gives it a really low score just because it borrows from other well known games, is that a fair way to review a game? I personally don't think it's fair especially since Singularity is a solid game. If it wreaked of mediocrity, than yeah, it's justified since it's trying to be a poor copy of the games it's borrowing ideas from. But the game is actually good! So it's contradicting and sending the wrong message.

So it's not fair to the developers for that score because a lot of people will see those bad reviews and shun the game.

That's why a score can be important.

I guess that's why we discuss about it so much whenever a highly anticipated game comes out.

 

[leroidys]

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

Most of these great games you listed bombed hard, unfortunately. Indies still have our back, but I think most of the big pubs besides nintendo have abandoned them for now.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Most of these great games you listed bombed hard, unfortunately. Indies still have our back, but I think most of the big pubs besides nintendo have abandoned them for now.

Makes me sad they bombed.

But I notice the cheaper download titles do well, like the $10-15 indie platformers.

Obviously most people, other than platformer fans, don't want to buy these games for full price.

 

[spekkeh]

Well said and I do agree. You're right.

But it's my own personal pet peeve at reviews who don't know the difference between personal bias vs a actual bad game.

That's where I kind of draw the line and whether or not I can take the review seriously.

You seem to have this persistent idea that games are hardware appliances, and not interactive entertainment. The only objective thing is usability, for the rest there's only personal bias.

 

[iMerc]

Definitely. As someone who primarily follows this genre, im always baffled when people act like its a dying breed. Like there was that thread a while back about Nintendo putting out 4 platformers on the wii u in a years time and the OP said "What other major console does this??" like it was some crazy thing but in the same exact timespan, Sony put out the same amount. Theres been a very healthy amount the past few years, and a good chunk of them are generally considered modern classics.

the number of 'platformer' type games being released on the market is not the question.
the question is how many of them actually have good visibility.

in addition, while the platforming genre can be perceiving as 'back' in numbers, it is most definitely not back in sales. the only ones that perform quite well are generally those made by nintendo or its close partners. unfortunately.

to top it off, most of the platfomers people mention not developed by nintendo or ubisoft are relegated to 'download only'.

and i use the term 'RELEGATED' deliberately because i feel that's exactly what's happened to the genre.

the platforming genre is NOT back. the majority of its offerings are download only; as if it's a 'second class' genre now, that only has a place where the average joe can't see it (i.e. not a retail release).

so when people say/show how impressed they are with nintendo and what they're doing with the genre, it's quite obvious why: they seem to be the only publisher left that has enough balls to release this 'second class genre' as a major, headlining retail release for their systems. not only that but they released FOUR of them at retail within good timespan as big reasons why the average joe should buy their hardware (would be great if they made as much effort for some other genres too, but i digress).

YES, sony has released multiple games in the genre on their hardware. however none of them in recent years (you could argue for knack, although other games were promoted far more heavily) were promoted as the headlining titles as to why their system should be bought.

which is a shame because i love sony/naughtydog/insomniac platformers. i think they're fantastic. but naughty dog & insomniac seem to have moved on to 'greener pastures' with their latest games.

and we've seen how microsoft has faired in this genre before. though i'm always up for pleasant surprises.

 

[MYE]

Too many people are focusing on the numerical score. I mean, if you liked the first one, and they are saying its better than the first one, isn't that the important part to focus on?

Do you think my clients or people who critique my work only focus on what I do right and just accept in silence if they see right after that something so dumb that it doesn't make sense, just because its "less important"?
Videogame reviewers are not special. The score is part of the review they send out for the world to see and judge.

 

[Feindflug]

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

Games like LBP, Puppeteer, Sonic Generations (it's almost unplayable at 30fps), Duck Tales & Giana Sisters should not be in a list of excellent platformers IMO.

 

[Bill Rizer]

Games like LBP, Puppeteer, Sonic Generations (it's almost unplayable at 30fps), Duck Tales & Giana Sisters should not be in a list of excellent platformers IMO.

And think about the fact most of the titles you listed got better scores in magazines than DKCTP... lol

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Games like LBP, Puppeteer, Sonic Generations (it's almost unplayable at 30fps), Duck Tales & Giana Sisters should not be in a list of excellent platformers IMO.

Funny, because I consider all of those to be excellent platformers with the exception of Duck Tales. Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

 

[Toxi]

Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

I'm usually willing to give 30fps the benefit of a doubt, but playing a fucking Sonic game at 30fps is painful.

 

[Mael]

Funny, because I consider all of those to be excellent platformers with the exception of Duck Tales. Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

LBP is a great customisation tool or whatever and it's also one of the worst platformer to ever grace a gamepad.
Seriously unless LBP 2 is the second coming of the platforming's Christ there's no way you can put these 3 letters and put excellent next to it.
The very basic movement in these games are so fucked up it's an insult to all the coders out there who stayed up during their allnighters to get the jumping mechanic just right when they could have phoned it in like MM did.

 

[Chindogg]

Funny, because I consider all of those to be excellent platformers with the exception of Duck Tales. Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

I liked Ducktales for what it was...

 

[phanphare]

Another great WiiU exclusive. Will pick it up on release day friday this week.

Seems like the console is slowly building up a nice collection of must-have games.

it really is. it's slowly-but-surely turning into a home-console version of the 3DS where there isn't one specific game that's a system seller. the library of high quality games is the system seller, with a nice handful of them catering to niche genres

 

[Storm Prelude]

Holy balls, this nowaday videogames critics really grinds my gears.
I can't really understand if it's all mobile games fault.

 

[Feindflug]

And think about the fact most of the titles you listed got better scores in magazines than DKCTP... lol

And I should care why exactly?

Funny, because I consider all of those to be excellent platformers with the exception of Duck Tales. Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

Well we have different opinions then, it happens.

Also you can laugh all you want about Generations being almost unplayable but fast side scrolling at 30fps (even if it had motion blur) was quite tiring to my eyes.

 

[rjc571]

Funny, because I consider all of those to be excellent platformers with the exception of Duck Tales. Also lol at Generations being unplayable at 30fps. Just...wow.

Faster games require faster framerates to compensate for the difference in camera movement/animation speed and required input timing. If you think Sonic games are playable at 30 fps, you must also think that any game whose gameplay is half as fast as Sonic's is still playable at 15 fps. LOL just wow, indeed.

 

[Bill Rizer]

And I should care why exactly?

No, no. You shouldn't care at all, and I actually agree with you on those games.
Was just another rant at game reviewers

 

[RobFox64tm]

Finally finished reading all these reviews, including Gamespots. There are many contradictory opinions between them all, but I think it's clear that if you like challenging platformers, and especially the original Donkey Kong Country Returns, there is no reason not to pick this game up.

I also found most of these reviews to explain their reasoning pretty well, but Gamespot's stood out to me as a fairly glib analysis of the game. He definitely had some issues that weren't elaborated on well at all, and he offered little evidence to support his opinion. I understand it's just that though: an opinion, but as far as the professionalism of product reviews goes, he did sub par work here. It's hard to deny that, no matter what your feelings on this game end up being.

 

[Brandon F]

I also found most of these reviews to explain their reasoning pretty well, but Gamespot's stood out to me as a fairly glib analysis of the game. He definitely had some issues that weren't elaborated on well at all, and he offered little evidence to support his opinion. I understand it's just that though: an opinion, but as far as the professionalism of product reviews goes, he did sub par work here. It's hard to deny that, no matter what your feelings on this game end up being.

This was my exact thoughts as well watching the video review at Gamespot. There are some bold statements made in regards to the quality of Retro's work, but the footage included did little convincing to prove his points. Sweeping statements regarding a lack of progressive ingenuity in the level design without much rhythm that keeps player momentum at a peak to avoid the harrowing obstacles. Interesting counterpoint to the other reviews, but there was lacking evidence to support this claim, particularly given how methodical and conservative the player driving the footage in the video review approached the game, almost purposefully never attempting to risk "going with the flow" at the pace the levels seemingly cater. You can almost sense the fear and trepidation of each jump, bounce, and swing, leading to many hits, and deaths in the video review footage. Really flies in the face of his claims.

 

[dampflokfreund]

One thing about the game really bothers me

Spoiler

Why did they use the Symphony remix in Twilight Terror level, which just plays for only 10 seconds before you enter the rocket? This makes no sense at all, why didn't they used it in the Bramble Blast level, even the name is similar

 

[K' Dash]

For the people who "found" the soundtrack in the interwebs, do we have a new version of Hot Head Bop?

 

[Christopher]

do they have a remix of the mining stages from DKC2?

 

[dampflokfreund]

Or Flight of the Zinger?

 

[drspeedy]

Another great WiiU exclusive. Will pick it up on release day friday this week.

Seems like the console is slowly building up a nice collection of must-have games.

That most gamers will pick up for $10 at a yard sale in 5 years

Spoiler

I keed, I keed. But its true

 

[NEO0MJ]

Sonic Generations (it's almost unplayable at 30fps),

Good thing there's the PC version.

LBP is a great customisation tool or whatever and it's also one of the worst platformer to ever grace a gamepad.

Yeah, it's pretty surprising that a guy with his name and avatar considers LBP a great platformer.

 

[Ansatz]

I don't believe this at all.

Platformers (especially 2D) *WERE* a dying breed for a while, but in the last few years, they've been almost completely revived. There are a LOT of platformers out there.

Nintendo is making more platformers these days than they did during the N64 and Gamecube era and Indies, of course, have been releasing them by the truck load, as you note. I don't think you can brush those things off so quickly, though, as this does represent a LOT of games.

That said, a smattering of platformers from the last generation and beyond. The list goes much deeper, but this excludes the real indie stuff as well as Nintendo's games. Add those in and you'll be buried in excellent platformers. The genre is stronger now than it has been since the 16-bit days. Let us rejoice!

Many of those are not platformers, I would call them experiences (Puppeteer) or games that merely contain platforming elements (Castlevania). Also the recent Rayman and Sonic titles have been disappointing to me, they just don't hold up in quality when it comes to controls, physics and level design.

On the other hand Super Meat Boy and Mirror's Edge (besides the lack of polish) nailed it and rank up there with Nintendo's stuff.

 

[ghibli99]

Damn, that's a flood of good scores. Was slightly worried, but it looks like a must-buy. DKCR was one of my favorite platformers last gen, up there with the Mario Galaxies, the Raymans, and Super Meat Boy. Can't wait!

 

[Gonzo The Great]

The Globe and Mail gave it three stars out of five for being too difficult. What the hell is wrong with this industry? Are we not allowed to have challenging games anymore?

 

[Madouu]

gamekult gave it 8/10

 

[AvoidDaNoid]

This was my exact thoughts as well watching the video review at Gamespot. There are some bold statements made in regards to the quality of Retro's work, but the footage included did little convincing to prove his points. Sweeping statements regarding a lack of progressive ingenuity in the level design without much rhythm that keeps player momentum at a peak to avoid the harrowing obstacles. Interesting counterpoint to the other reviews, but there was lacking evidence to support this claim, particularly given how methodical and conservative the player driving the footage in the video review approached the game, almost purposefully never attempting to risk "going with the flow" at the pace the levels seemingly cater. You can almost sense the fear and trepidation of each jump, bounce, and swing, leading to many hits, and deaths in the video review footage. Really flies in the face of his claims.

Good point. You are absolutely right. You can see him playing like a coward in the video. hahaha

 

[Outtrigger888]

The Globe and Mail gave it three stars out of five for being too difficult. What the hell is wrong with this industry? Are we not allowed to have challenging games anymore?

I just got done playing through a link to the past(its been years), and thought how i missed the thought provoking challange from the old Nintendo. Where you sometimes think of a puzzle so much, you have to take a break, and come back to it later.

Now i read something like this, ...

Things have changed.

edit: The reviewer may of docked points, because its too difficult for the targeted audience, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

They must also understand, DK started in the arcade, and has fans from an older demographic. Not only that, but it seems that its always been a challenging game.

 

[iamaustrian]

The Globe and Mail gave it three stars out of five for being too difficult. What the hell is wrong with this industry? Are we not allowed to have challenging games anymore?

it's ridiculous
It's like they have never played a 16 or even 8bit game. They would probably rate Contra as "unplayable" due it's difficulty.

 

[squid]

Argh, now that I just cleared 3D World out of my backlog, I'm trying to decide between getting this or Wind Waker HD (since in the original WW I only ever made it through the first couple of dungeons). Tough decision! D:

 

[Outtrigger888]

Argh, now that I just cleared 3D World out of my backlog, I'm trying to decide between getting this or Wind Waker HD (since in the original WW I only ever made it through the first couple of dungeons). Tough decision! D:

If you're ultimately going to play one after the other, then id say start with DK. It takes about 13 hours to complete(So i heard, not to 100%, plus other modes), that way, you can play both games sooner. Opposed to WW's 20+ hours, then to DK.

In between breaks with WW, you can work on 100% DK.

 

[Phamit]

The Guys from Game One (german Television) praising the difficulty of the game, the creativ ideas and the grafics and art. The only contra are the bossfights, which are quite long and dont have checkpoints, so if you die after 8 minutes, you have to do everything again.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

The Guys from Game One (german Television) praising the difficulty of the game, the creativ ideas and the grafics and art. The only contra are the bossfights, which are quite long and dont have checkpoints, so if you die after 8 minutes, you have to do everything again.

Yeah, I read that as well. Can be frustrating.

But at least the boss battles are really good this time around, unlike the first one where reviewers said they weren't that great.

So Retro listened to the criticism and made good bosses for TF!

 

[squid]

If you're ultimately going to play one after the other, then id say start with DK. It takes about 13 hours to complete(So i heard, not to 100%, plus other modes), that way, you can play both games sooner. Opposed to WW's 20+ hours, then to DK.

In between breaks with WW, you can work on 100% DK.

Yeah, I might do that. Between the two of them, they should last me till Mario Kart :-D

 

[dark10x]

Games like LBP, Puppeteer, Sonic Generations (it's almost unplayable at 30fps), Duck Tales & Giana Sisters should not be in a list of excellent platformers IMO.

I didn't like Giana Sisters (bleh) but Sonic Generations is incredible on the PC. That's where it should be played.

I like Sonic Generations more than Super Mario 3D World, if I'm honest. My favorite platformer of the last several years so you better believe I would include it.

Besides, this was intended to show that platformers are still alive and well not that they are all Nintendo quality.

Also the recent Rayman and Sonic titles have been disappointing to me, they just don't hold up in quality when it comes to controls, physics and level design.

You're free to your opinion, of course, but Rayman Legends and Sonic Generations are two of my favorite platformers of all time and I prefer both of them by quite a large margin to Donkey Kong Country Returns.

I'm usually willing to give 30fps the benefit of a doubt, but playing a fucking Sonic game at 30fps is painful.

Which is why it should be played on the PC.

 

[iamaustrian]

The Guys from Game One (german Television) praising the difficulty of the game, the creativ ideas and the grafics and art. The only contra are the bossfights, which are quite long and dont have checkpoints, so if you die after 8 minutes, you have to do everything again.

That's a huge plus (to me). screw checkpoints.
I want frustration-like difficulty at bosses

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

That's a huge plus (to me). screw checkpoints.
I want frustration-like difficulty at bosses

It is more rewarding when you beat a boss for sure!

After throwing some controllers! Damn, I don't want to throw the gamepad out of frustration!

 

[caligula13]

Did they take out the assist mode?

 

[iamaustrian]

It is more rewarding when you beat a boss for sure!

After throwing some controllers! Damn, I don't want to throw the gamepad out of frustration!

haha. I know that feeling. I was a huge "thrower" in the 8 and 16 bit days but (S)NES controllers hardly ever broke; even when hitting a wall.
Now I always have an unplugged broken NES controller sitting next to me when I play Wii or WiiU. I case of anger and frustration I send it via airpost through the living room.
wiimotes and gamepads are too expensive to throw.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I just got done playing through a link to the past(its been years), and thought how i missed the thought provoking challange from the old Nintendo. Where you sometimes think of a puzzle so much, you have to take a break, and come back to it later.

Now i read something like this, ...

Things have changed.

edit: The reviewer may of docked points, because its too difficult for the targeted audience, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

They must also understand, DK started in the arcade, and has fans from an older demographic. Not only that, but it seems that its always been a challenging game.

It's target audience is first and foremost, fans of Donkey Kong Country, a series that is known for it's challenge. People can't assume that because it's a Nintendo game it shouldn't provide a stiff challenge.