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Eid ul-Adha might be on September 11th?(It's not.)
- Thread starter The Artisan
- Start date
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probs
You're illustrating my point clearly. We have a difference in how we view a post and because I choose not to debate it further since we wouldn't see eye to eye because of it, you automatically assume that puts you in my ignore list. All while speaking of zero sum games.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Exactly, minorities should just drop their sacred holidays to avoid making white people uncomfortable.
Why is this even a story?
Please point out exactly where Cyan said that he did not feel that 9/11 was a tragedy.
It's plain, right? Should be easy to find the exact quote, then.
womfalcs3
Banned
Having a unified lunar calendar for a country can be problematic. If you're in the US, you can sight a new moon in New York, but see it differently in Los Angeles. It's a trigonometric relationship between you, the sun, and the moon.
Every year, different countries end up having different dates for Eid Al-Fitr because of this.
Every year, different countries end up having different dates for Eid Al-Fitr because of this.
... You're kidding, right?
That's not how this, a discussion on a forum works. Context is key and Cyan's response (to the post he's quoting) is perfectly fine. If he was just responding with "get over" then I could see your reasoning. Right now you just seem like being upset because you want to be upset and ignoring the flow of discussion.
echoshifting
Banned
Of all the batshit crap you've posted in the thread, this is the most rage-inducing. Context is irrelevant, in a fucking discussion forum?? Are you fucking serious? Why, that's awfully convenient, isn't it? If context were relevant, as it is in every other case of discussion forum posting, it would look like you are wielding the sanctity of 9/11 like a baseball bat to bash anyone who disagrees with you.
Seriously revolting, shameful treatment of any poster, red or not. As if you are the only person here who remembers.
STOP MOCKING METhere is an easy solution to all of this.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
not sure you understand what muslims actually do on Eid Ul Azha. It's not like we have massive celebrations where we dance and drink and party on the streets. we are modest people celebrating a modest tradition. the worst thing to celebrating you will see if people dressing up in traditional paki/arabic garb and going to their relatives for tea while they distribute meat to their relatives and donate it to poor people.
If you cant handle the biggest display of mass charity in the world and a bunch of muslims visiting relatives and mosques then the problem is with you.
Kralamoonard
Member
Hit the nail on the head. Great post - saved wasting my breath on deaf ears as your post puts it perfectly.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You are having a meltdown right now and ignoring the context of the post you're melting down about.
RustyNails
Member
"Context is irrelevant" is easily the worst way anyone can start opening their argument. You're basically saying ignore everything and only focus on how it looks. The problem is that its not the correct worldview to inhabit. My cousin sister's birthday is on 9/11. Should I tell her wait, dont celebrate your birthday because pa22word says she is being classless?
Separate the fact from fiction. Muslims are not celebrating the attacks on twin towers. They are keeping up with their religious tradition of having festivities marking the end of Hajj. 2-3 million are performing Hajj this year. No one is going to care about silly optics.
ThisGuy
Member
Mmmm, they're talking about cyans remark over the way people feel about 9/11, not Muslims celebrating. Right?
Luschient
Member
Riiiiight, because white people are the only ones who attach any kind of significance to that date. No other races or nationalities were affected... Pls
OT, Muslims shouldn't change anything if that's the date it happens to fall on. Events coincide with each other all the time.
And I'm not sure why some are calling 9/11 a "holiday". It's not like businesses and schools close down on that day.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Why so ?
Al-Ghazali as a anti-rational obscurantist is really outdated view among the academic:
The conflict with Ibn Rushd have nothing to do with rationality, it have to do with him accepting irrational beliefs of the Greeks that contradict main islamic teachings like Absolute God Knowledge etc.. the main point was to say that Revelation for a muslim cannot be replaced by Reason, since Reason come from the finite and Revelation from God.
But in anyway shape or form Al Ghazali reject reason as a way of knowledge, just read his Kitab al-'ilm and his hermeneutics about what do to when Quran contradicting demonstrative proofs it's really enlightening.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Because the "sacrifice" is actually not a sacrifice since you're eating the food ? It's actually reversing the whole notion of sacrificing to God. When we give something to God, we give it to the needy in Islam.
I cannot actually believe that some people will ask muslims to drop their celebrations. If baghdad mass bombing in 2003 would have occurred a 25 of december, christmas should be moved to 26?
I am sure that american muslim will anyway make a sensible move toward the 11/09 remembering, but you cannot ask to alter a millenary tradition only for recent actuality, so horrible it could be. It's just seem egocentrical.
I'm not sure what you intended with this post, but the way I'm reading it, it does come off as insensitive and lacking empathy. As someone that saw it happen and lost 3 people to it and being the worst foreign attack on American soil period, it has every right to be a sacred day of remembrance.
I hope I don't get banned for this, but it irked me. If I'm misinterpreting the post, feel free to correct me (as in Cyan, not other posters).
Cyan has to personally address you? I'm sorry, but that is asinine.
If you're seriously 'freaking out' over this, you need to seek professional help. You're responsible for your emotions, not everyone else.
If you're not freaking out, I doubt Cyan is talking about you. Still, perhaps he might come in and personally address you.
Kralamoonard
Member
Seriously I feel people are manufacturing it for the sake of one upping a mod. From his previous posts (and the fact he's been a mod for a while), he'd be one of the last people to purposely upset someone.
Eh, you're right. I had a bit too much rum last night and got rambunctious. Apologies to cyan and all, it's clear to me now he didn't really mean anything by it and I just took it wrong way. It's a touchy subject that's easy to get emotional about, and I let my own feelings get in the way of using my brain. My bad, guys.
ThisGuy
Member
Woooow, poster lost three people and they need to seek professional help for a post that wasn't even major?
Get off cyans dick lmao. Cyans a cool poster, but that was a shit post.
You come off as a jerk here.
I just meant I'd rather he tell me what he means and not other people speaking for him, just as I'd expect the same of anyone being directly addressed. He obviously has no obligation to respond, but that doesn't mean I need to assume those that will speak for him are 100% accurate.
Trust me, I've had all the professional help I could get regarding 9/11 and its effect on my life and heath, both mental and physical (the dust alone fucked me up for quite a bit and probably shaved off years of my life).
And I'm not freaking out, I just thought it was crass and not something I'd expect of a neogaf mod, a place where that kind of behavior is generally discouraged.
What a shitty post.
On the contrary, to others, including myself, it appeared both intelligent and sensitive to the plight of the folks being discussed in the thread.
Hyperactivity
Banned
It's uh
it's a pretty old holiday
like a few hundred years older than 9/11
If 9/11 were to happen on christmas or thanksgiving, would you say the same?
You missed my point entirely. If a tragedy were to occur during Nowruz or the Chinese New Year, would it be any different? There are days of mourning associated with different dates in the Islamic calendar, and generally you do dua for the dead every year from their death, according to the Islamic calendar. I've had stuff like that conflict with US holidays before, doesn't make me raise a fuss about the holiday.
Saudi Arabia follows the Islamic calendar. If a tragedy occurred on specific date in the Islamic calendar, and it happened to line up with Christmas one year, would it be reasonable to expect Christmas to just not be celebrated?
As far as Muslims and Eid-ul-Adha is concerned, the date will be 12/10, not 9/11. The 12/10 is what the holiday is based around here.
Because people have twisted the original message. Back in the day, you were supposed to go by the moon sighting in your region. So today with modern technology and all that, there are people (a lot of Sunnis) that will go by what Saudi Arabia does. Even if you go by the outdated method of verifying with the naked eye, if the moon is sighted in NA for example, they still won't do anything until the Saudis verify it.
In the interest of keeping this thread from continuing to derail it looks like I should really clarify my earlier post.
The poster I was responding to suggested that if Eid ul-Adha falls on September 11th, Muslims ought to simply not celebrate it. This is one of the high holy days of Islam--quite literally a sacred holiday--and it has been celebrated as such for centuries. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, this is roughly analogous to suggesting Christians not celebrate Christmas or Easter.
I think it's reasonable for people to want to remember 9/11 and the lives that were lost that day. We still have a national remembrance day for Pearl Harbor, and that's reasonable too. In particular the poster who lost people that day should feel free to remember and grieve in whatever way they feel is appropriate. I don't want to tell anyone the correct way to grieve.
What I was disagreeing with in my post is treating 9/11 as some kind of national day of grievances, specifically with Islam. That is, of treating it as a day on which Muslims must tread carefully because the people who attacked us were Muslim and did so in what they believed was the name of Islam, and therefore the day can be used as a weapon with which to attack all other Muslims now and forever. No mosques near Ground Zero, no celebrating Islamic holy days if they fall on 9/11, etc.
As far as my post, certainly I could've softened the wording I used (I also could've been harsher, honestly, though not without being much ruder than I generally like). I felt at the time that my post was at about the right level of harshness for the post I was responding to. Sometimes that level of harshness, without additional cushioning, forces people to confront what they were actually saying. Sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes, as here, it completely backfires. I was not expecting to cause a major derail with that post, so I definitely miscalibrated. I will say, though, that I didn't think my response was a shitpost, in the sense of posting in order to just be a jerk, or without caring about the topic of the thread at all, or to deliberately derail things. (In the interest of full disclosure, I have been known to shitpost, but generally only for trivial shit like Batman v Superman RT scores.)
Finally, I'd like to note that people don't need to be afraid to disagree with me just because I'm a mod. I've never banned someone just for disagreeing with me, and I try very hard not to ban people for other stuff if they're in the middle of disagreeing with me--it's way too easy to go down a slippery slope that way and rationalize poor moderation decisions. And of course if you feel like I'm behaving badly or in a way that would get a non-moderator banned, and don't feel safe telling me so directly, you're free to contact another mod or EviLore by PM and let them know.
Whew. Here's where I'd normally say "now please stop the derail" or something, but that would obviously not be appropriate in this case. So instead I'll just request, outside my capacity as a moderator, that people stop defending me since that's half of what's driving this. Thanks.
The poster I was responding to suggested that if Eid ul-Adha falls on September 11th, Muslims ought to simply not celebrate it. This is one of the high holy days of Islam--quite literally a sacred holiday--and it has been celebrated as such for centuries. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, this is roughly analogous to suggesting Christians not celebrate Christmas or Easter.
I think it's reasonable for people to want to remember 9/11 and the lives that were lost that day. We still have a national remembrance day for Pearl Harbor, and that's reasonable too. In particular the poster who lost people that day should feel free to remember and grieve in whatever way they feel is appropriate. I don't want to tell anyone the correct way to grieve.
What I was disagreeing with in my post is treating 9/11 as some kind of national day of grievances, specifically with Islam. That is, of treating it as a day on which Muslims must tread carefully because the people who attacked us were Muslim and did so in what they believed was the name of Islam, and therefore the day can be used as a weapon with which to attack all other Muslims now and forever. No mosques near Ground Zero, no celebrating Islamic holy days if they fall on 9/11, etc.
As far as my post, certainly I could've softened the wording I used (I also could've been harsher, honestly, though not without being much ruder than I generally like). I felt at the time that my post was at about the right level of harshness for the post I was responding to. Sometimes that level of harshness, without additional cushioning, forces people to confront what they were actually saying. Sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes, as here, it completely backfires. I was not expecting to cause a major derail with that post, so I definitely miscalibrated. I will say, though, that I didn't think my response was a shitpost, in the sense of posting in order to just be a jerk, or without caring about the topic of the thread at all, or to deliberately derail things. (In the interest of full disclosure, I have been known to shitpost, but generally only for trivial shit like Batman v Superman RT scores.)
Finally, I'd like to note that people don't need to be afraid to disagree with me just because I'm a mod. I've never banned someone just for disagreeing with me, and I try very hard not to ban people for other stuff if they're in the middle of disagreeing with me--it's way too easy to go down a slippery slope that way and rationalize poor moderation decisions. And of course if you feel like I'm behaving badly or in a way that would get a non-moderator banned, and don't feel safe telling me so directly, you're free to contact another mod or EviLore by PM and let them know.
Whew. Here's where I'd normally say "now please stop the derail" or something, but that would obviously not be appropriate in this case. So instead I'll just request, outside my capacity as a moderator, that people stop defending me since that's half of what's driving this. Thanks.
Good luck to American Muslims, especially in New York. Thr timing could not be worse with I hope the police provide security for the Eid prayers because if something happens in such a crowded place, it could be catastrophic.
And for those that think Muslims should just "move Eid", get over yourselves. The world does not revolve around you. Islam is far bigger and older than America and there have been far worse tragedies that Eid has fallen on.
And for those that think Muslims should just "move Eid", get over yourselves. The world does not revolve around you. Islam is far bigger and older than America and there have been far worse tragedies that Eid has fallen on.
Same guy was getting all pissy when they weren't killing other people's kids and families the way he wanted them to.
"Are you going to make me kill my own children as sacrifice?!"
Haha no silly, that's what the other team (Canaanites for example) is for. Now remember, not one of them left alive
"Even the women and children?!"
What's with the questions? Every time with these constant questionings! What part of "all of them" is hard for you to follow? I swear if I get one more bloody question, I'll have some upstarts from that swamp they call Mesopotamia come in to ruin your damn day. Now go!
ajfoucault
Member
Most certainly and most unfortunately.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Messofanego
Banned
Glad you came to your senses. Alcohol and communication, bad idea.
therealist
Member
Are you saying that only white people are sensitive to the 9/11 attacks?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
[Agent]ZeroNine;215324956 said:
Of bloody course it isn't intentional. In the interest of trying to look "neutral", all you managed to do is to look foolish.
How the bloody hell is it intentional? I mean, how stupid can you be if you believe that? What a bloody stupid thing to say.
The Artisan
Member
be nice to each other, guys.
RustyNails
Member
Shh. Dont tell him that Muslims planned the lunar cycle to coincide with 9/11 anniversary just to mess with New Yorkers!
Maybe I missed it, but who is asking to have the holiday rescheduled? The thing in the OP just sounded like Muslim religious leaders preemptively worried about some USA nut job taking offense.
1400 year plan finally coming to an end!
An earlier poster.
The Artisan
Member
but you know there's literally millions of you, right?
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