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Eidos Montreal unveils new engine: Dawn Engine (based on IO's Glacier 2)

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I'm a little baffled by people saying this image or Glacier 2 look amazing. Never looked like a graphical leader to me. Not even cutting edge with its competitors. This image solidifies that view to me.

Can someone point me to some impressive Glacier 2 images?
 
Z

Zarx

Member
Nirolak said:
Well, you see, the implication of this announcement is that instead of using the same engine as IO Interactive and getting all the updates they make to it, they split out a separate branch, so each team develops new features and they don't get a shared benefit.

This is unlike EA with Frostbite, or Rockstar with RAGE, or Warner with their UE3 variant (Arkham, Mortal Kombat, and Warner Montreal all share the same build), where every updates benefits all projects on the engine.

It's the easiest way to share technology at one point and then not get any of the ongoing benefits of doing so. In unrelated news, Square Enix's CTO and their Worldwide Technology Director left for some reason.
Click to expand...

How many different engine do they have now?. Basically every major franchise is on it's own separate engine. Dawn Engine (Deus EX), Final Fantasy XV is built in some Frankenstein monster engine that was forked from crystal tools and then incorporating a bunch of Luminous engine tech, Glacier for Hitman, Tomb Raider has it's own engine but I am not sure what the offecial name is, Kingdom Hearts transitioned away from Luminous to UE4. Presumably there is at least one game still built on the Luminous engine. They also use Unity for some mobile stuff.

They do apparently share some tech tho, Luminous aparently incorporated Glacier 2 and Crystal Dynamics' engine tech. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/126747/Square_Enix_Details_Its_Luminous_Studio_Engine.php. Still having so many different toolsets, even across franchises with similar core gameplay seems an odd choice. Surely at least the western studios should be able to share a single engine. Tomb Raider, Hitman and Deus Ex don't seem so different that they need completely separate engines.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Zarx said:
How many different engine do they have now?. Basically every major franchise is on it's own separate engine. Dawn Engine (Deus EX), Final Fantasy XV is built in some Frankenstein monster engine that was forked from crystal tools and then incorporating a bunch of Luminous engine tech, Glacier for Hitman, Tomb Raider has it's own engine but I am not sure what the offecial name is, Kingdom Hearts transitioned away from Luminous to UE4. Presumably there is at least one game still built on the Luminous engine. They also use Unity for some mobile stuff.

They do apparently share some tech tho, Luminous aparently incorporated Glacier 2 and Crystal Dynamics' engine tech. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/126747/Square_Enix_Details_Its_Luminous_Studio_Engine.php. Still having so many different toolsets, even across franchises with similar core gameplay seems an odd choice. Surely at least the western studios should be able to share a single engine. Tomb Raider, Hitman and Deus Ex don't seem so different that they need completely separate engines.
Click to expand...

Currently it's:

Tomb Raider - Foundation Engine
Hitman - Glacier Engine 2
Deus Ex - Dawn Engine
Final Fantasy XV - Luminous Engine
Kingdom Hearts III - Unreal Engine 4
Final Fantasy XIV - Unnamed Engine
Square's New Console RPG - Seemingly Unity

They often seem to take one engine as a base and branch off of that, but without making sure to have the teams work together and share everything they develop back to a main branch like the other studios I mention, essentially you're just skipping the first part of engine development, but are entirely on your own for the rest of it, which loses at least 50% of the benefit of using a shared engine.

Like a good example of this is BioWare's customization features helping DICE and PopCap add in customization to Battlefield 4 and Plants vs. Zombies without having to independently build a system like that for each game, or BioWare benefiting from DICE's open world streaming functionality for Dragon Age in the first place.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
duckroll said:
Yes... Hitman Absolution turned out just fine! :)
Click to expand...

Hitman Absolution as a game didn't turn out that great, but I don't think anybody argued against its technical accomplishments. Even on PS3 and 360 it looked impressive. On PC it already looked next-gen.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Zarx said:
How many different engine do they have now?. Basically every major franchise is on it's own separate engine. Dawn Engine (Deus EX), Final Fantasy XV is built in some Frankenstein monster engine that was forked from crystal tools and then incorporating a bunch of Luminous engine tech, Glacier for Hitman, Tomb Raider has it's own engine but I am not sure what the offecial name is, Kingdom Hearts transitioned away from Luminous to UE4. Presumably there is at least one game still built on the Luminous engine. They also use Unity for some mobile stuff.

They do apparently share some tech tho, Luminous aparently incorporated Glacier 2 and Crystal Dynamics' engine tech. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/126747/Square_Enix_Details_Its_Luminous_Studio_Engine.php. Still having so many different toolsets, even across franchises with similar core gameplay seems an odd choice. Surely at least the western studios should be able to share a single engine. Tomb Raider, Hitman and Deus Ex don't seem so different that they need completely separate engines.
Click to expand...

Nirolak said:
Currently it's:

Tomb Raider - Foundation Engine
Hitman - Glacier Engine 2
Deus Ex - Dawn Engine
Final Fantasy XV - Luminous Engine
Kingdom Hearts III - Unreal Engine 4
Final Fantasy XV - Unnamed Engine
Square's New Console RPG - Seemingly Unity

They often seem to take one engine as a base and branch off of that, but without making sure to have the teams work together and share everything they develop back to a main branch like the other studios I mention, essentially you're just skipping the first part of engine development, but are entirely on your own for the rest of it, which loses at least 50% of the benefit of using a shared engine.

Like a good example of this is BioWare's customization features helping DICE and PopCap add in customization to Battlefield 4 and Plants vs. Zombies without having to independently build a system like that for each game, or BioWare benefiting from DICE's open world streaming functionality for Dragon Age in the first place.
Click to expand...

Ubisoft is even worse:

Far Cry - Dunia Engine (forked from CryEngine 1)
Splinter Cell - LEAD Engine (forked from Unreal Engine 2.5)
Assassin's Creed - AnvilNext
The Division - Snowdrop Engine
Rainbow Six - Realblast Destruction (on top of AnvilNext)
Rayman - UbiArt
Watch Dogs - Disrupt Engine
The Crew - Babel
 
U

Ushay

Member
Wow we're starting to get some damn good RPG's this gen. Can't wait for the next installment of Deus Ex, hopefully they don't turn it into a multiplayer only thing..
 
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DOWN

Banned
RedSwirl said:
Ubisoft is even worse:

Far Cry - Dunia Engine (forked from CryEngine 1)
Splinter Cell - LEAD Engine (forked from Unreal Engine 2.5)
Assassin's Creed - AnvilNext
The Division - Snowdrop Engine
Rainbow Six - Realblast Destruction (on top of AnvilNext)
Rayman - UbiArt
Watch Dogs - Disrupt Engine
The Crew - Babel
Click to expand...

As I understand it, Ubisoft is not as bad though. The engines are supposedly "modular" and thus AC, Watch Dogs, The Division, and Rainbow Six supposedly share a lot of framework that can be leveraged around over time...
 
N

NewVegasDog

Member
I did enjoy Hitman Absolution engine, since it was a very good looking game (if you remove the excess bloom). Interested seeing how the new Dues Ex game will look like in motion.
 
J

jim2point0

Banned
Well, I'm hyped. I loved Human Revolution, but I didn't think it was very impressive, visually. This looks better. So as long as the gameplay is still good, I'll be happy. Not every game is going to be a Unity.

Shogun1337 said:
That looks like CG artwork or something.
Click to expand...

Except for the aliasing :p
 
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DOWN

Banned
Arion said:
Piss filter is back. I love it.
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KKRT00 said:
Geometry looks really nice, piss filter looks horrible.
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kutthoat5150 said:
That screenshot screams deus ex, but I don't see why they continue to use the piss filter on it
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The screenshot clearly doesn't have piss filter. It's how they should have captured the black and gold art style to begin with. Use yellow lighting where you want it and don't tint the whole screen to amplify it.

Do people mean yellow lights when they say piss filter? I don't think people understand what the piss filter was. There's clearly plain white lighting without the filter in the screenshot.

Original piss filter was an actual tint on the whole screen. They removed it for the Director's Cut, though there was some sense of the black and gold theme still maintained by lights that were meant to be yellow. Removing the filter slightly killed the art style, but some people just didn't like everything being tinted as opposed to proper lighting.

Hopefully the next Deus Ex has plenty of the black and gold, just no faking it with a filter. That's what the screenshot seems to be aiming for.
 
A

Arion

Member
I actually really do like the piss filter. Sure it was put in as an after thought but it gave the game a unique look. Most other sci-fi is filled with silver, grey and white. Where as in HR everything had a golden look to it. It gave the world a distinct look that other sci-fi games or media doesn't have.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Arion said:
I actually really do like the piss filter. Sure it was put in as an after thought but it gave the game a unique look. Most other sci-fi is filled with silver, grey and white. Where as in HR everything had a golden look to it. It gave the world a distinct look that other sci-fi games or media doesn't have.
Click to expand...

Plus it ties with renaissance and optimism theme and stands out compared to other sci fi's dystopian neo-noir colours.
 
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DOWN

Banned
Arion said:
I actually really do like the piss filter. Sure it was put in as an after thought but it gave the game a unique look. Most other sci-fi is filled with silver, grey and white. Where as in HR everything had a golden look to it. It gave the world a distinct look that other sci-fi games or media doesn't have.
Click to expand...

Messofanego said:
Plus it ties with renaissance and optimism theme and stands out compared to other sci fi's dystopian neo-noir colours.
Click to expand...

The filter was the wrong way to go about it. The screenshot and Director's Cut did it much better. Use golden and yellow lighting to get that art style, while preserving other colors.

I love the black and gold too.
 
S

Sodding_Gamer

Member
That picture makes me happy. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was my favourite game from last gen. I'm reallly looking forward to Deus Ex: Universe :D
 
kutthoat5150

kutthoat5150

Member
CannonO said:
The screenshot clearly doesn't have piss filter. It's how they should have captured the black and gold art style to begin with. Use yellow lighting where you want it and don't tint the whole screen to amplify it.

Do people mean yellow lights when they say piss filter? I don't think people understand what the piss filter was. There's clearly plain white lighting without the filter in the screenshot.

Original piss filter was an actual tint on the whole screen. They removed it for the Director's Cut, though there was some sense of the black and gold theme still maintained by lights that were meant to be yellow. Removing the filter slightly killed the art style, but some people just didn't like everything being tinted as opposed to proper lighting.

Hopefully the next Deus Ex has plenty of the black and gold, just no faking it with a filter. That's what the screenshot seems to be aiming for.
Click to expand...

yes the piss filter was a yellow tint on the whole screen even without yellow lights in the immediate area, this is the best screenshot I could find on it using the enb mod which disabled it
image.jpg
 
H

Hyperzephyrian

Banned
Strange that they wouldn't just stick with Unreal. I know they switched to it for Thief, so I assumed it would be adopted studio-wide. But as long as the gameplay is as good as Human Revolution's was, I don't much care which engine they use.
naumov91 said:
[Hitman: Absolution] turned out 10x better than Thief.
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Thief was a flawed but good game.
Come at me, breh.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
The most important thing for them to do with the new Deus Ex is not give us a repeat of Adam's hair from the first game.

Really fuckin' ugly to look at for 20 hours.
 
H

Hyperzephyrian

Banned
Spaghetti said:
man the amount of people who forgot deus ex universe was a thing is kinda high in this thread
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I hadn't forgotten. But to be fair, Eidos hasn't said much more than, "Our next thing is called Deus Ex Universe. Transmedia! No, we won't tell you what that actually entails."
ThoseDeafMutes said:
The most important thing for them to do with the new Deus Ex is not give us a repeat of Adam's hair from the first game.
Click to expand...
His hair is augmented.
"First game"?
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Hyperzephyrian said:
I hadn't forgotten. But to be fair, Eidos hasn't said much more than, "Our next thing is called Deus Ex Universe. Transmedia! No, we won't tell you what that actually entails."

His hair is augmented.
"First game"?
Click to expand...

I consider Human Revolution to be the start of a sort of "sub-series" of Adam Jensen / 2027 era stories. I'm not sure if it's 100% confirmed but I believe we've had word that they will continue doing games in a vaguely similar time period and possibly using the same character. They intend for it to be a franchise and a recognisable visual style of that era and possibly returning characters would help them do that.
 
A

AusRoachman

Member
Not bad for all the f2p garbage with microtransactions that will be coming out In The near future.

I fully expect microtransactions to be a bullet point in all there future engine showcases.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I consider Human Revolution to be the start of a sort of "sub-series" of Adam Jensen / 2027 era stories. I'm not sure if it's 100% confirmed but I believe we've had word that they will continue doing games in a vaguely similar time period and possibly using the same character. They intend for it to be a franchise and a recognisable visual style of that era and possibly returning characters would help them do that.
Click to expand...

This is most likely the case and I don't believe Jensens story is finished. Missing Link DLC more or less will have him alive for the next game. I believe Adam Jensen and Frances will be in the next game and continue the rise of Bob Page and other events that lead to the first Deus Ex game. We've still not seen the NYC disaster yet with the Statue of Liberty and UNATCO.
 
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