• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

ESA: 37% of the most frequent US game buyers are female, gaming age breakdown

What's the difference between playing Puyo Puyo Tetris on your TV or Candy Crush on your phone? Who cares if people like types of games you don't care for? That doesn't mean they aren't games.

I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.
 
I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.

*pats MindGamingMantis on the head*

That's great, champ!
 
I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.
...And that's your misconception.
 

FX-GMC

Member
I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.

"I play real games."

Always love a good "holier than thou" type sentiment. Makes me feel good that I don't think like that.
 

Aeana

Member
I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.

Candy Crush is free, and so would not be factored into a study about "game buyers." I know you're desperately looking for a way to say that this number is too high but you're going to have to find another angle.

There is also no "enthusiast" qualifier mentioned anywhere in the study.
 
You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.

And this is a stupidly narrow way to define a population if you're looking to spend marketing dollars or making other kinds of business decisions based on how your audience spends their money.

Nobody truly, actually gives a shit about your opinion about what tests must be passed to 'qualify' as a true gamer in your worldview.
 
And this is a stupidly narrow way to define a population if you're looking to spend marketing dollars or making other kinds of business decisions based on how your audience spends their money.

Nobody truly, actually gives a shit about your opinion about what tests must be passed to 'qualify' as a true gamer in your worldview.

This forum is cancer lmao.
 
So what? That's my opinion. My mom likes tetris and bejewled ripoffs, but my mom isn't a gamer lol.

The counterpoint I'd raise is that I have no idea why you're trying to hone in on some narrow definition of what it is to be an enthusiast gamer. If I were to try and meet you more than halfway I would concede that I understand what you're angling at, but I don't know why. If your mom is willing to spend some money on gaming why would I exclude her as a consumer of gaming products to focus exclusively on the so-called core gamers like you and me?
 
Majority of gamers male. Jumped in a lake, water still wet. Anyone got the info to show the increase in girl gamers over X amount of years? Also just fucking lol at the core gamer vs casual debate.
 

Mega

Banned
Every time one of these polls or studies comes out we get people trying to find ways to attack the validity of the data because it doesn't line up with their misconceptions.

How about this... How many years now have independent research come up with the same basic results? 5 years? More?

At some point you can take off the tin foil hat and accept that women are gamers.

I mean, literally every woman I know games​ in some capacity. I can't say that about the guys I know. ...And I'm not talking about mobile games either, but they should count too.

What's the difference between playing Puyo Puyo Tetris on your TV or Candy Crush on your phone? Who cares if people like types of games you don't care for? That doesn't mean they aren't games.

In other words, stop acting in a way that makes other gamers embarrassed to be associated the pastime... ...embarrassed to be associated with you.

Those people have moved on from doubting the data to denying that the games they play are even "real" video games at all. I don't understand when guys went from wishing more girls were interested in games to full-on denial that they're here.

I get what you're saying, and games are games, but when I think of what gamers are, I'm not thinking about the person who plays candy crush, I'm thinking the person who built a rig or is playing Zelda or Horizon or Gears or Overwatch.

Mobile/cheap bejewled ripoffs are in a different space than consoles/pc gaming. Candy Crush is in the same league as Solitaire in my eyes. You might play 'games', but I don't consider you a gaming enthusiast/gamer.

Congrats on being brainwashed by advertising telling you what "real" games are.

So what? That's my opinion. My mom likes tetris and bejewled ripoffs, but my mom isn't a gamer lol.

Bejeweled and Tetris are video games, both more popular than a lot of games you play.
 

Kilau

Gold Member
Then this is saying a lot about the failure of console makers to attract phone players.

Are they even trying? Maybe Nintendo with the Switch but the appeal of playing on mobile doesn't translate to a console.
 
While your anecdotal report in and of itself, doesn't hold considerable weight, I think it's likely that it's the result of a response bias. Parents tend to be especially defensive when it comes to how they raise their child, and it's likely they often - unconciously or conciously - missrepresent the truth because of the surrounding social factors. Respondants often provide the answer they believe is what they should do, rather than what they actually do.

I don't think there's anything on the ESA website that helps us understand any measures they might have taken to minimize this. Generally speaking if you just send out thousands of surveys, you're data quality isn't liable to be that high, and you're simply hoping that the sheer weight of the data compensates for that. With that said, elements like a considerable liability for response bias will still slant the data, and that's quite possibly what we're seeing on some of the questions related to parenting.

I'm not saying it's worthless, it has valuable bits and pieces, but what are our takeaways from this report relative to 2016s? That's not clearly presented, and what is presented, is quite limited in its scope, which is a shame.

The liklihood of a perception bias is just as likely. Spending all of 5 out of context minutes during a transaction does not give someone enough insight on parental techniques/habits to even have a credible anecdote to contrast with the data. There are way too many factors.

And I don't actually think response bias would be meaningfully weighty unless the survey itself was flawed and response bias would require a standard social perception of what is "right" and what is "wrong." There is no standard for gaming parenting with exception to outliers in extreme belief systems. It's simply too new gor standards to apply across the board.
 

muteki

Member
To those more used to reports from them, does the ESA publish the numbers (survey questions, answers, etc.) behind the pretty graphs? Some of the diagrams cite sources, some don't. Also what defines a "frequent video game player"? On the press release it says "read the full report here" but that just links to what I'm assuming is a mobile version, based off the url.

It says to learn more go to TheESA.com but I'm having a hard time finding any details there.

Edit: taking /mobile/ off the link gets you to this pdf, but doesn't really have any more info either.
 
It's probably worth remembering that the ESA is not a neutral entity, or an industry watchdog - it's an industry advocate, and as such will feel pressure to release numbers that it perceives as favorable.

The stats you flagged look particularly questionable to me. The ESA has a strong interest in promoting the idea that parents are highly conscious of their kids' purchases, and highly involved in their gaming. Perhaps those stats are sort of true, or even entirely fair, but we'd need to understand exactly how they come to those numbers to know (they don't say, right?)
Well...
ecg6uty.jpg
 

Kilau

Gold Member
Is it true that they're not trying? Haven't both Microsoft and Sony both sunk many millions into mobile software and hardware efforts?

Yes, but I think that's more of an effort to get some of that market versus trying to attract mobile players to a traditional console.
 

Lister

Banned
The counterpoint I'd raise is that I have no idea why you're trying to hone in on some narrow definition of what it is to be an enthusiast gamer. If I were to try and meet you more than halfway I would concede that I understand what you're angling at, but I don't know why. If your mom is willing to spend some money on gaming why would I exclude her as a consumer of gaming products to focus exclusively on the so-called core gamers like you and me?

I think it's entirely useful to analyze both markets separately, for many reasons though.

The percentage of "Gamers" (mostly mobile or mostly console/PC) that are female, for example, I'd wager, changes, possibly significantly (which sucks). Now that's my impressions based on biases of my own personal conditions. Certianly it would be awesome if I were wrong and there were more female gamers playing PC and console games. This is just one metric that might be different.

For a gme developer I don't think it makes any sense to combine the two markets to arrive at what type of game to build or hardware to target or considerations to take into account. At this point in time, you really have to pick and choose, unless your game can work well on both (and some do!).

Anyway, that's where I woudl see value of differentiating these markets. Not sure what he was specifically alluding to though.
 

Arkage

Banned
It's weird how people always make the causal vs hardcare argument in threads concerning women in gaming.

I mean, why not take this to it's logical conclusion and say if you're not playing DOTA or some sort of competitive game, and only really do single player stuff, that's not really hardcore gaming because your level of commitment to master the game is much lower than that of someone who plays DOTA in a competitive team.

Lines can be drawn wherever you like, but stop trying to imply that since the study isn't following your lines, it's somehow invalid. Maybe studies like this need to give an explicit definition of what counts as a "videogame" to pre-empt the pointless debate over particular platform/genre demographics. This data isn't collected and created for marketing companies, it's for public consumption to view changing trends in general culture.
 

Nista

Member
I buy 99% of the console and PC games in my household, but that's because I'm the one with amazon prime and BB memberships. But I'm already in the 8% group in that data, so I know I'm a relatively tiny part of the game market. I also find it really hard to spend much time and money on mobile games, except franchises I already like like Fire Emblem.

But I'm also really good at forgetting to fill out surveys that people email me. So who knows if women get underrepresented a little cause they are too busy to bother with the data collectors.
 
I think it's entirely useful to analyze both markets separately, for many reasons though.

The percentage of "Gamers" (mostly mobile or mostly console/PC) that are female, for example, I'd wager, changes, possibly significantly (which sucks). Now that's my impressions based on biases of my own personal conditions. Certianly it would be awesome if I were wrong and there were more female gamers playing PC and console games. This is just one metric that might be different.

For a gme developer I don't think it makes any sense to combine the two markets to arrive at what type of game to build or hardware to target or considerations to take into account. At this point in time, you really have to pick and choose, unless your game can work well on both (and some do!).

Anyway, that's where I woudl see value of differentiating these markets. Not sure what he was specifically alluding to though.

I mean, I get it. If I set out to make a hardcore strategy simulation I probably understand that my target audience isn't soccer moms playing games on their phones while sitting on the bleachers during their kids' practices. But if I'm a publisher trying to figure out what to do with talented development studios in my employ, if they're playing games and spending money then surely I'm interested in creating products that they may buy.

I just don't understand the reaction some people have. I get that every consumer doesn't play every type of game. I get as "core" fans we are interested in products that cater to us. But in a study like this I have zero idea why people would get uppity and try to delineate between so-called casuals and hardcore demographics. If my mom or grandma who isn't a "real" gamer would buy and play something like Tetris, it stands to reason that there may be other games they would play as well. And if they're willing to spend money on gaming products, they're gaming consumers. What good criteria is there to disqualify them for the purposes of a study that seeks to identify the gaming demographics?
 
Just checking to see if people are discounting mobile as "not real gamez" and women as "not real gamerz" and yep

It's extremely myopic to discount demographics just because you personally don't approve. An obvious goal of any successful business is to appeal to as many people as possible
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
How are people surprised at the average age of purchaser being 36? As a 36 year old myself it totally makes sense.

Our generation were the pioneering gamers. We were the ones on the ground floor and watched the hobby grow into what it is today. Naturally we're the main purchaser.

It also totally explains the parent stats too. Which will no doubt grow and grow over the next decade.
 
It always amuses me to see the average age of a gamer and how 'old' it actually is compared to the stereotype movies/tv shows trope about.
 
The percentage of "Gamers" (mostly mobile or mostly console/PC) that are female, for example, I'd wager, changes, possibly significantly (which sucks). Now that's my impressions based on biases of my own personal conditions......

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-co...2/PI_2015-12-15_gaming-and-gamers_TOPLINE.pdf

Here's a pew study on that from late 2015. The relevant question:
"Some people use the term ”gamer" to describe themselves as a fan of gaming or a
frequent game-player. Do you think the term ”gamer" describes you well, or not?"

Men: 15% say yes
Women: 6% say yes

So for people who say that they are fans of gaming or frequent game players, it is 71% male and 29% female.

Women aged 50+ are more likely to describe themselves as "gamers" though over men their age. That is the only bracket where it is even close.

You might say that the term 'gamer' has been smeared significantly the past years in the industry so many wouldn't use that term for themselves, however they defined what they meant specifically in the question. This should be a fairly accurate number.
 

Budi

Member
Just checking to see if people are discounting mobile as "not real gamez" and women as "not real gamerz" and yep

It's extremely myopic to discount demographics just because you personally don't approve. An obvious goal of any successful business is to appeal to as many people as possible

I mean personally, I do see a big difference in most mobile/Facebook games and in more traditional video games. But my hope is that anyone, man or a woman, who plays mobile games would also broaden their gaming habits into more "serious" gaming. I don't think casual gaming is a bad thing at all though. And especially now with Nintendo when they started doing mobile too, I'm really hopeful there will be more crossover. From my understanding Pokemon GO gave a nice boost to 3DS and Pokemon S&M, or am I entirely wrong on that? I just want the medium (for selfish reasons it's the PC/console market, not mobile) to grow, mobile is good in giving a bit of taste and can work as a gateway.

So yeah, they are separate things for me. But I don't see either of them as female gaming or male gaming exclusively.

My mother used to love Tetris, Bubble Bobble and Side Pocket. We played these together on NES when I was a kid, she played those alone too. Nowadays she only plays those match 3 games in Facebook and that bums me out since that isn't really something we can share.
 

Bulby

Member
I dont know why we are getting so defensive about questioning the detail of the data. Games are games, sure, but if it would be interesting to know, and not for the purpose of chastising anyone.

If a survey is saying x amount people play golf, but y amount have only played miniture crazy golf. Its an useful detail to take into consideration.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Only three bans. Less than I would've expected.

Nice article. The stats about parents with their kids were heartwarming.
 

BaasRed

Banned
How did they determine frequent buyers? Through monthly or weekly buying habits? Or do they take average across the year? Do rentals and used games count? What about bundled games? Did they identify the buyer through the online profile?
 
How did they determine frequent buyers? Through monthly or weekly buying habits? Or do they take average across the year? Do rentals and used games count? What about bundled games? Did they identify the buyer through the online profile?

This was a survey, so they probably asked questions like "Are you the most frequent purchaser of games in your household?" and "What is your gender?"

Just a shot in the dark though.
 

besada

Banned
I dont know why we are getting so defensive about questioning the detail of the data. Games are games, sure, but if it would be interesting to know, and not for the purpose of chastising anyone.

If a survey is saying x amount people play golf, but y amount have only played miniture crazy golf. Its an useful detail to take into consideration.

Because the survey is what it is. Filling the thread with posts wishing it were something else doesn't really help anyone.

A different survey, with different breakdowns, would be interesting. But this isn't that survey, and complaining that you'd prefer a different survey isn't going to change that, it's just wasting people's time.

Beyond that, there's a long history of people coming into these threads to do their level best to make sure everyone knows that "females" don't really play games, so why do the surveys keep saying they do!

Finally, if you'd like to discuss moderation policy, next time PM a moderator.
 
I've never seen them (female gamers), nor did I grow up with parents who played videogames with their children. I know some girls who "play" videogames, but I wouldn't describe them as gamers. Nor did any of my friend's parents, or anyone whom I've ever met parents. I guess I was just part of a different generation.
 
Top Bottom