• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Eurogamer - Epic boss is thrilled at the prospect of PlayStation Neo and Xbox Scorpio

DieH@rd

Banned
"I'm absolutely thrilled with this," Sweeney said of the mid-gen refresh in a recent interview with Eurogamer. "It gives you the best of both worlds, the upgrade cycle of the PC which ensures that people always have access to the latest and greatest hardware and games don't go out of date over a seven year cycle, together with the fact there's a box you can go and buy - or two boxes - and you're guaranteed that everything can work. And I think the configurations for developers are very reasonable.

"From an industry insider perspective, the console industry will grow and sustain its user base much better if it doesn't have to reset its user base to zero every seven years. The idea of throwing everything out and doing everything from scratch every seven years is completely crazy. And everything Epic's done with our new game development approach, involving these online games we're going to maintain over time, it's about building games where we don't have to reset our user base to zero when we want to add new features."

...

"There's value to 4K," said Sweeney. "These 4K television are incredibly high quality and becoming very economical so supporting them will be good. From a typical users TV, a lot of users are going to prefer having that 3 to 4 times the computing power applied towards making the existing number of pixels look that much better. I think games will choose different routes. At any rate every game should be expected to deliver a 3X or better improvement in graphics quality as a result of this new hardware - whether they do it through higher resolution or prettier pixels is a decision for each game, and different games will exploit it in different ways."

According to the specs we've seen so far, PlayStation Neo and Xbox Scorpio look to make their performance gains through GPU rather than CPU power - a move that makes sense to Sweeney.

"I feel like consoles will remain in balance," he said. "You can see in some of the most complex games at the moment, the CPU is having no trouble keeping up with complex scenarios. As game developers, you can spend far more time doing far more optimisation for CPU than GPU - a GPU is a perfectly parallel brute force computing device, if you give us a fixed algorithm and tell us to make it two times faster there's not much we can do, you can spend a year making our game run twice as fast. If you look at what's going on in the industry, it's still propelling GPU performance growth over CPU performance growth, which is a trend I think is going to continue."

more @ http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-prospect-of-playstation-neo-and-xbox-scorpio


/render this thread in CryEngine if old
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
The reset to zero argument for engine teams and install base hasn't come up enough. That's a big boon for console devs
 

DieH@rd

Banned
I also don't understand the whole "but but but devs will have to invest time into optimizing game for Neo/Scorpio". That's their job, and it is in their interest to release game for widest install base possible.

The quote about the CPU being strong enough is interesting, though.

Why? 99.99999% games released on PS4/Xbone work fine, with only few of them having real deep issues [which happens every gen, some dev is not ready, their tech needs time to adapt to new architecture, etc].
 
Good to hear.

The quote about the CPU being strong enough is interesting, though.

I actually read it the other way. My interpretation is that the CPUs are not that great, but they won't hold back performance (as opposed to him suggesting that the CPUs are really good, which would be even better).
 
"From an industry insider perspective, the console industry will grow and sustain its user base much better if it doesn't have to reset its user base to zero every seven years. The idea of throwing everything out and doing everything from scratch every seven years is completely crazy."

Exactly why these systems are ultimately a good thing.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Good to hear.

The quote about the CPU being strong enough is interesting, though.

For 30 FPS I am sure it is fine. I see no reason to upgrade unless it is for 1080/60. That would mean a new Zen CPU. I am very confident that Scorpio will have a Zen since no VR solution outside of Sony will work with a Jaguar CPU.
 

GHG

Member
The reset to zero argument for engine teams and install base hasn't come up enough. That's a big boon for console devs

Anyone with any sense has been saying it from the moment these new consoles were first mentioned.

It's a big win for devs considering the rising dev costs.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
It's also a major boon for middleware providers since if anyone does struggle, it's a great argument to hook up with Unreal or Unity to solve that problem for you.
 

Thraktor

Member
It shouldn't exactly be surprising that Epic would be happy about Neo and Scorpio. They make most of their money selling middleware which is designed to (among other things) make it easier for developers to create scalable games that will run across multiple platforms. Increasing the number of platforms developers need to support is obviously going to increase demand for their product.
 

androvsky

Member
It's also a major boon for middleware providers since if anyone does struggle, it's a great argument to hook up with Unreal or Unity to solve that problem for you.

Agreed, I think Silicon Studio needs to make another 3D Dot Game Heroes to drive home that point.
 

theWB27

Member
It shouldn't exactly be surprising that Epic would be happy about Neo and Scorpio. They make most of their money selling middleware which is designed to (among other things) make it easier for developers to create scalable games that will run across multiple platforms. Increasing the number of platforms developers need to support is obviously going to increase demand for their product.

Wouldn't this be true only if devs made their engine non scalable? Am I missing something?

Edit- nm I get it.
 
I also don't understand the whole "but but but devs will have to invest time into optimizing game for Neo/Scorpio". That's their job, and it is in their interest to release game for widest install base possible.



Why? 99.99999% games released on PS4/Xbone work fine, with only few of them having real deep issues [which happens every gen, some dev is not ready, their tech needs time to adapt to new architecture, etc].

99 percent of open world games on the consoles are only running at 30 fps
And all of them have awful draw distances/LOD


Why are remasters like dishonored and darksiders 2 that should easily run at 100+++ fps on the ps4's gpu still 30 fps? (and these games do run at 100+fps easily on a pc with a hd7850 and a decent cpu)

Why is that if not because of the cpu
 

frogger

Member
I am not planning to buy 4k tv for awhile. And I just don't see the point of keeping increasing the resolution. Please do 60FPS, better anti aliasing, more graphical effect, more NPC on the screen etc.
 

geordiemp

Member
99 percent of open world games on the consoles are only running at 30 fps
And all of them have awful draw distances/LOD


Why are remasters like dishonored and darksiders 2 that should easily run at 100+++ fps on the ps4's gpu still 30 fps?

Your probably right for some games but what is consistent is if you ask anyone what they would want for an upgrade, the usual answer is a stable 60 FPS at 1080.

Its up to Sony to convince enthusiasts on console that Neo is worth it. Its pretty easy really, just pay the devs and Demo Witcher 3 and GTa 5 at 60 FPS and then take the money.

CPU / GPU / Bandwidth - its up to Sony to show us the value of Neo.

If there is no discernible difference, then dont bother Sony. 60 FPS or bust,
 

AmyS

Member
June 2012:

Nvidia said:
What is the target platform for UE4? What kind of hardware are gamers going to need to run UE4 based games?

Tim Sweeney said:
Unreal Engine 4’s next-generation renderer targets DirectX 11 GPU’s and really starts to become interesting on hardware with 1+ TFLOPS of graphics performance, where it delivers some truly unprecedented capabilities. However, UE4 also includes a mainstream renderer targeting mass-market devices with a feature set that is appropriate there.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...?ClickID=azpzn0wy5k05tnpktrwkvskyrpnw59ntksks
 
I've said this before and I will say it again: Keep 1080p but give us all the bells and whistles. Better lighting, AA, AO, textures, framerate, etc. goes a long way over merely increasing the resolution. So, to me, a buffed up 1080p game > a 4K game with mediocre graphics quality.
 

Griss

Member
This has been my take on it from the start and why so many on here ultimately thought this move was inevitable.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The reset to zero argument for engine teams and install base hasn't come up enough. That's a big boon for console devs

It's the single biggest benefit IMO. If we'd had that when PS4 and XB1 launched, we wouldn't have had such a weak first year, with publishers hedging their bets. Continuity of platforms, tools and processes hugely reduces the risk to publishers that a new platform normally brings.
 

geordiemp

Member
It's up to developers whether they want to push 60 frames or more visual niceties, not Sony.

whynotboth.gif

Its up to Sony to create the enthusiast model which will allow developers to offer both 60 FPS and visual niceties.

Otherwise some gamers will drift to PC again mid cycle, and PC gaming is getting very interesting value wise with Windows store and $ 200 GPU cards.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
I actually read it the other way. My interpretation is that the CPUs are not that great, but they won't hold back performance (as opposed to him suggesting that the CPUs are really good, which would be even better).

Yeah that is the ultimate point. Whether the CPUs are strong or weak, all consoles now seem to put most of their eggs in the GPU basket and at least Sony and Microsoft made a point about asking developers (and middleware providers?) what they wanted from the hardware.

The big developers appear happy with both Scorpio and Neo so far. Let's see what they can deliver.
 
Can't wait for Scorpio.

The wait till next year winter is going to be killer.

Can't wait to they unveil it. I hope they have a kick ass design(especially with Panos Panay heading the hardware design team).

Also hope between now and the unveiling that they decide to up the horse power also.
 

Apoc87

Banned
What about the configurations for consumers that dropped 400+ on the basic models a couple of years ago
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
professor_t said:
(as opposed to him suggesting that the CPUs are really good, which would be even better).
Try listing consoles with "really good" (contemporary) CPUs and then consider this again.
 

Blanquito

Member
What about the configurations for consumers that dropped 400+ on the basic models a couple of years ago

Congratulations, you've already been using your hardware for a couple of years playing games, and will continue to get the same games that you would have gotten otherwise.

...Do you expect more than that?
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I actually read it the other way. My interpretation is that the CPUs are not that great, but they won't hold back performance (as opposed to him suggesting that the CPUs are really good, which would be even better).
He is talking from the PoV of someone who's in house team is currently working on a game that holds 60 pretty well on PS4 in beta so more CPU probably wouldn't do much good there.

The CPU issue is an interesting one and I'm intrigued to see how it pans out. Games that are already 60fps on the standard PS4 will show some huge visual gains. Very interested to see how/what 30fps games do.
 

geordiemp

Member
That will run better on the updated models, effectively splitting the userbase

Who all play Ps4 games....so splitting the userbase means what exactly ? Do you understand what splitting a userbase means ?

Do I understand correctly that you dont want me to play a higher graphics version of a game than you because you are jelly ?

All gamers that want to pay for better graphics have to go to PC because no one can have something better looking than you have ?
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
That will run better on the updated models, effectively splitting the userbase
I'd imagine competitive MP modes will be forced to target the same framerate on both versions, which isn't really a big deal because Destiny and The Division are the only two I can think of that aren't 60fps off the top of my head.

Differences in MP titles will be purely aesthetic.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
What about the configurations for consumers that dropped 400+ on the basic models a couple of years ago
You will move from the first tier configuration for first party titles and second tier configuration for multiplatform games (behind PC) to the second tier configuration for exclusives and the fourth tier configuration (behind PC, Scorpio, and Neo) for multiplatform titles, but you should still receive every game.

If you're unsatisfied, I'm sure they'll offer a trade in deal.

I'd imagine competitive MP modes will be forced to target the same framerate on both versions, which isn't really a big deal because Destiny and The Division are the only two I can think of that aren't 60fps off the top of my head.

Differences in MP titles will be purely aesthetic.
I'm not sure developers will care honestly. It's not like PCs play games at the same framerate and the biggest eSports are all there.

That said I'm not sure how many devs are interested in better framerates as opposed to just better graphics.
 

Apoc87

Banned
You will move from the first tier configuration for first party titles and second tier configuration for multiplatform games (behind PC) to the second tier configuration for exclusives and the fourth tier configuration (behind PC, Scorpio, and Neo) for multiplatform titles, but you should still receive every game.

Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo
I play primarily on PC so there's like 80 tiers I have to decide between.

It could be a lot more complicated!
 

Kaydan

Banned
Re-read that and tell me its not a bunch of complicated anti-consumer horseshit that could be alleived by just waiting a couple of years and releasing a ps5/xbtwo

Its only complicated if you care about how your machine compares to others. I don't see what's so complicated or anti-consumer about the release of better, more powerful consoles.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I'm not sure developers will care honestly. It's not like PCs play games at the same framerate and the biggest eSports are all there.

That said I'm not sure how many devs are interested in better framerates as opposed to just better graphics.
I'm not sure they'll care either. I just expect Sony and MS to have some kind of mandate in order to talk about a maintained even playing field on consoles.
 

Apoc87

Banned
Its only complicated if you care about how your machine compares to others. I don't see what's so complicated or anti-consumer about the release of better, more powerful consoles.

I mean, people feel buttshafted on here all the time when a particular consoles port fares better than theirs. Imaging having to feel that way with every game, as these new models are going to introduce.
 

gatti-man

Member
I mean, people feel buttshafted on here all the time when a particular consoles port fares better than theirs. Imaging having to feel that way with every game, as these new models are going to introduce.

You could always buy the new console? Or get over it? It's not a big deal to have other people have better hardware than you. The PC crowd has dealt with this since the dawn of time.
 
The reset to zero argument for engine teams and install base hasn't come up enough. That's a big boon for console devs

Totally agree about this part. The business model is fucking bonkers. It was intended for a much smaller, more niche industry. Toys, basically. All those clinging to this 40-year-old model out of tradition or perceived value are bonkers IMO. This will help grow the industry in a more steady and sustainable way.
 

Dabanton

Member
I mean, people feel buttshafted on here all the time when a particular consoles port fares better than theirs. Imaging having to feel that way with every game, as these new models are going to introduce.

They'll moan whatever the scenario.

But those kinds of gamers are just going to have to get used to it.
 
I mean, people feel buttshafted on here all the time when a particular consoles port fares better than theirs. Imaging having to feel that way with every game, as these new models are going to introduce.
Who cares how people feel? This new paradigm is going to work great for me millions of others
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
That will run better on the updated models, effectively splitting the userbase

Pretty sure I play games with people who have a brand new Nvidia 1080 card while I'm still going strong with my 970...

Explain how it's splitting the user base.
 
Top Bottom