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EuroGamer: More details on the BALANCE of XB1

S

SwiftDeath

Member
clickclack said:
I've been reading on and off for a few years...I go in spurts...This topic however I've been reading for a few days and simply got irritated. Perhaps the reason for the inappropriate outburst. It's all to much...
Click to expand...

Hmm see that's where many will disagree

I would say that logically the best time to discuss the power difference in two new upcoming products that serve pretty much the same purpose is before most people in the discussion will buy them

It makes perfect sense to continue the discussion once said participants own the consoles in question but I don't quite understand the sentiment "let the games do the talking" as being the only rational stance as many wish to get the consoles at launch and before real world impressions

Hence why I think it's more than appropriate to understand where my money is going before I buy my next gen console

I would never buy a phone, laptop, desktop etc. without knowing enough to compare it to like products

I see no reason why consoles should be exempt

It is not our fault that the specs indicate the PS4's power advantage

We simply like discussing what that might actually mean

clickclack said:
Although I'd be lying if I didn't say I learned quite a bit in this thread...For those that are getting the PS4...hopefully it will be epic and everyone has an awesome time with it. Personally I'm getting XO and can't wait to unwrap it and just play...
Click to expand...

Right and that's a fine approach to a new console generation

But this topic is about the power difference so talk of which game concept anyone likes better is rather irrelevant (I'm not aiming that squarely at you of course)
 
B

BajiRav

Member
NoMoreTrolls said:
Hilarious irony in that post :)

Nobody ever said that Day-Night Cycles were inherently next-gen, but he went out of his way to mention something that specifically was current-gen as a next-gen feature.

Oops! Reading comprehension and remembrence failure!
Click to expand...
I just used day-night cycle because that is the first thing you mention as next-gen in your post. ;)
 
Q

qream

Member
clickclack said:
Yo, what's your problem...this is a FEELINGS place...let people FEEL!
Click to expand...


Sometimes it's good to keep emotions and feelings out of it though.

I understand that you love the Xbox One and want to see it succeed. Maybe you genuinely believe that it's the better console for you and don't want to see or hear bad things about the console.

At some point though, you should take a step back and rationally look at the other side of this argument. There are a lot of people trying to show with numbers and math the differences between the two consoles. While there are champions of consoles on either side spouting a lot of rubbish, you should pay more attention to the people who are trying to objectively look at what sets these consoles apart.

Numbers and math are constant. They aren't subject to opinion and emotions.

That being said, power differences alone does not make a console attractive to everyone. Maybe a particular person loves the football and tv integration of the Xbox One, other another loves Music Unlimited and remote play of the PS4.
You're going to buy the console that is more attractive to you anyway. No need to fret over it on the interwebs.
 
N

NTIETS13A_Superiority

Banned
BajiRav said:
Day-night cycles are not new either, that's the point. It is just evolution of both features.
Click to expand...

But you may think wich one is more taxing on harwawre. Anyway it is no use to compare visuals without knowing how certain visuals ar archived... approx same results may be done in wery different ways, other more demanding on hw tahn other. Multiplats are the only potential metric. MAin differences propably how well they run and some minor other differences. One would think that set pieces are done to the specs and capabilities of weaker machine... otherwise game would not run in it or set piece would look rubbish.
 
C

clickclack

Banned
qream said:
Sometimes it's good to keep emotions and feelings out of it though.

I understand that you love the Xbox One and want to see it succeed. Maybe you genuinely believe that it's the better console for you and don't want to see or hear bad things about the console.

At some point though, you should take a step back and rationally look at the other side of this argument. There are a lot of people trying to show with numbers and math the differences between the two consoles. While there are champions of consoles on either side spouting a lot of rubbish, you should pay more attention to the people who are trying to objectively look at what sets these consoles apart.

Numbers and math are constant. They aren't subject to opinion and emotions.

That being said, power differences alone does not make a console attractive to everyone. Maybe a particular person loves the football and tv integration of the Xbox One, other another loves Music Unlimited and remote play of the PS4.
You're going to buy the console that is more attractive to you anyway. No need to fret over it on the interwebs.
Click to expand...

Thanks...Like I said...I'm buying what I'm buying and not here to convince myself or others of anything. I think most would agree that power alone without developers wanting to/actually utilizing all that power is meaningless.

The way I see it...I'll lament the xo's lesser #'s when I start to see a real difference in performance and negatively impacts my enjoyment. Then I'll sell it and buy a PS4. To me this box is not just about gaming, I realize for others it's purely for gaming and that's cool but for me I like the media options and TV integration.

It CAN get annoying to see people discount what XO is doing technically just because the the raw numbers are not even...somehow by some this equates to an inferior experience. Again, I've been reading and basically keeping my mouth shut because I'm comfortable with my decision but sometimes it's to much. Perhaps I should have simply excused myself from the reading on the console war topic.
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
Louis Cyphre said:
First off, I have seen the whole generation first hand from owning both a PS3 and XBox 360. I've seen it all from the beginning to now. During that time I've witnessed the same emotions and the same reactions I'm seeing now. Looking back it was mostly all a bunch of wasted time because the reality is both those systems ended up being a lot closer than many wanted to admit. The multiplat games are the best representations to go by because they are often created by the same teams.

Early on we seen the PS3 struggle at times and the excuses then were indeed warranted, they simply didn't either have enough time or experience dealing with the PS3. As time went on we seen much better parity among those multiplat games. We also got a few that used the PS3 as the lead platform such as Burnout Paradise. Did that really show a huge advantage over the XBox 360? The big advantage the PS3 had was using the bluray storage to get away from disc-swapping. So a game like Star Ocean definitely benefited on the PS3 because it made backtracking an issue on the XBox 360. Could this have been countered if Microsoft made every XBox 360 have a mandatory hard-drive?

Either way we seen the arguments go back and forth with no real end. The PS3 was marketed as this powerful super computer that really didn't come to fruition because 8 years later the XBox 360 is still keeping up with it. Is GTA V much better on the PS3? Not really.

So does this mean the same thing will occur with the PS4 not being able to show the clear advantage many are suggesting now? We don't know yet. Again on paper it shows there is a clear advantage for the PS4 but Sony also showed specs for the PS3 that tried to make the XBox 360 appear to be an XBox 1.5. The excuse they make games for the lowest common denominator doesn't really ring true does it? Didn't the XBox 360 and PS3 both show clear advantages over the Wii? Didn't PC games also show clear advantages over the PS3 and XBox 360? So why was all the focus to these middle-ground platforms getting all the attention, and why does it look to be the same situation moving forward?
Click to expand...

This argument has already been used, many, many times.

We are entering uncharted territory with these new consoles. In the past everyone used custom chips and hardware for the most part. The Emotion chip in the PS2, the Cell in the PS3, the Xenon on the 360, these were all unique things with no clear comparison points.

The PS4 and XB1 are using damn near off the shelf PC hardware. Both have the EXACT SAME CPU, with the XB1 running it at a slightly higher clock. Both have AMD GPU's that are similar in design, but with the PS4 version have a significantly bigger chunk of muscle in it. The PS4 has double the rendering ROPS. Then you've got the memory situation, and the PS4 has significantly faster memory.

There are a few unknowns, but none of them significant enough to make a dramatic difference either way. The raw numbers are much simpler to examine in this gen than they've ever been before.

As for your final question, asking why these "middle ground" platforms get all the attention. That's rather obvious if you think about it. They account for the vast majority of people on Neogaf and average gamers.
 
A

artist

Banned
clickclack said:
And when Forza runs at 60fps at 1080p...they must be using last gen technology to achieve that performance on a 50% inferior box...just making sure I follow along.
Click to expand...
This has to be FordGTGuy.

His logic was there are no ESRAM yield issues otherwise Forza wouldnt be 1080p60fps.
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
qream said:
I promise I'm not as crazy or gullible as some of the other new members.
Can I get a pass?
Click to expand...

You got a dark souls avatar, so you're okay in my book! :)
Anyway, that's something left up to the mods to decide, but there have been several posters (on ALL sides, from what I've been seeing) that have a quite telling posting history, in just a few months.
I wasn't even accusing clickclack of being one of "them", I was merely explaining why people have taken such a strong approach against some juniors.
 
C

clickclack

Banned
Kazuma Kiryu said:
You got a dark souls avatar, so you're okay in my book! :)
Anyway, that's something left up to the mods to decide, but there have been several posters (on ALL sides, from what I've been seeing) that have a quite telling posting history, in just a few months.
I wasn't even accusing clickclack of being one of "them", I was merely explaining why people have taken such a strong approach against some juniors.
Click to expand...

I 'aint even mad...I figured when/if I started posting and the first time someone doesn't like my opinion I'll be accused of something like double ID or something.

It is what it is...
 
NoMoreTrolls

NoMoreTrolls

Banned
clickclack said:
I 'aint even mad...I figured when/if I started posting and the first time someone doesn't like my opinion I'll be accused of something like double ID or something.

It is what it is...
Click to expand...

Because of all of the shills that have been on GAF over the last few months, it's best to have a more BALANCEd post history to build upon to avoid such unfortunate accusations.

But seriously, sorry you got pounced upon so quickly and so hard, but you did use GAF hivemind terminology along with the word "minions." :p
 
C

clickclack

Banned
NoMoreTrolls said:
Because of all of the shills that have been on GAF over the last few months, it's best to have a more BALANCEd post history to build upon to avoid such unfortunate accusations.

But seriously, sorry you got pounced upon so quickly and so hard, but you did use GAF hivemind terminology along with the word "minions." :p
Click to expand...

I had it coming overstepping there...again, not even mad...I kind of did it to myself...

I'm addicted all of a sudden to these stupid threads between the two consoles...I need a break...lol
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
BruiserBear said:
This argument has already been used, many, many times.

We are entering uncharted territory with these new consoles. In the past everyone used custom chips and hardware for the most part. The Emotion chip in the PS2, the Cell in the PS3, the Xenon on the 360, these were all unique things with no clear comparison points.

The PS4 and XB1 are using damn near off the shelf PC hardware. Both have the EXACT SAME CPU, with the XB1 running it at a slightly higher clock. Both have AMD GPU's that are similar in design, but with the PS4 version have a significantly bigger chunk of muscle in it. The PS4 has double the rendering ROPS. Then you've got the memory situation, and the PS4 has significantly faster memory.

There are a few unknowns, but none of them significant enough to make a dramatic difference either way. The raw numbers are much simpler to examine in this gen than they've ever been before.

As for your final question, asking why these "middle ground" platforms get all the attention. That's rather obvious if you think about it. They account for the vast majority of people on Neogaf and average gamers.
Click to expand...

Let's hope the differences are above average this time.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
Garrett 2U said:
Some big developers might still use their own solutions, but it is definitely an attractive offer for devs.
EA tends to use their own servers for Battlefield and Sports games, but TitanFall is using the Xbox cloud servers.
I believe Activision is using their own solution for Destiny servers, but they are using the Xbox cloud for COD servers.

Plus, these games have been in development for years, and who knows how long they knew the details of the Xbox cloud.
I'd guess it just wasn't a real option for most launch day games as the service was probably still in development while most of those games were in development.
Click to expand...


Good point. Maybe games coming out later will better utilize azure. But I just find it hard to believe that activision doesn't have dedicated servers for COD for all platforms. I mean they make a shit ton of money off that game.

As someone who doesn't find the Xbone appealing, I have to admit MS was smart with integrating azure. Dedicated servers are a good thing for shooters and MS seems to be ahead in that department. I'm hoping Sony is also working on something. Maybe they can offer their own "discount" by subsidizing part of the cost of renting servers from Rackspace for 3rd party developers. I'm sure Sony has options.
 
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