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Ex-Naughty Dog Community Guy on DLC/Microtransactions: 'You should pay for good work'

P

PeskyToaster

Member
AKyemeni said:
Burst Rifle?

That wasn't DLC...

So what the hell are they talking about? Besides, all the regular stuff was way better than the DLC they offered. All the competitive guys (me included) used the non-DLC items cuz they worked better.
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Yup. None of the paid weapons offered a clear advantage, if anything, they were worse.
 
Z

zarggat

Banned
When there's already a drawn out season pass plan or dlc plan prior to the release of the game.. it makes it very difficult to take that dlc serious and makes me wonder why it wasn't just included initially.
 
S

Steverulez

Member
Isn't that why we pay $60 for it? I mean, cosmetic/non-intrusive micro transactions don't really bother me but its not like the game was F2P
 
T

TimmiT

Member
Nightengale said:
The full quote expands the context a bit more.
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So the quote's not about microtransactions but rather actual DLC expansions. That makes more sense.

That being said
"A clear-cut example of that is the burst rifle in The Last of Us. A lot of people thought 'Why are they charging for guns?' We did the research and noticed that a lot of players were having trouble jumping into the game for the first time, so we wanted to give people a weapon that was easily accessible and would give them a bit of a leg-up. There were other weapons if they were a more experienced player that they could buy – it's up to them. If you're already kicking ass, you probably don't need these, but if you want 'em, have 'em. It's just a matter of personal preference.
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This is a bullshit excuse for microtransactions in a full priced game.
 
J

Jack The Nipper

Banned
DeepEnigma said:
I hear this a lot on here. You will be surprised that a lot know what each other is doing. A lot socialize with each other, and a lot adopt the same practices.

Now game mechanics/design/etc you do not want stolen or borrowed sure, but general practices like this... they know. He speaks from experience, and how they do things, and a lot adopt similar practices.



So paying for someone's work is a dumb reason?

Tell that to Gamestop, next time you go in and get a game without paying for it, and just walk out.

Taken out of context it sounds brash, but combined with everything he said, that if the quality is there, and they paid people to make said quality, then why not purchase said quality? We do it all the time from rentals to a bag of candy that is gone in an hour.

Just playing a little devil's advocate here, being good friends with a few developers/producers and directors. As well as seeing the inner workings for years.
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Do you really think he knows what the namco team was doing with ace combat ships? I'm not saying he doesn't know or they don't have info on what other devs are doing though but how does he defend the work that was on disc and had to be bought them?

When people are complaining it isn't just about ND's work. it's about crap like halo 5's req packs, things that have been on disc and games that have clearly been rushed out and had things that were clearly cut out and sold later.


Star Wars is a game that I would bet my life savings had some cut content thrown in it's dlc packages as well.

i know we all try to be smart here and try to one up each other, but we are gamers and should stand up for one another against getting sucked dry a bit.

We aren't rich developers! some of us honestly make 300 bucks a week.
 
R

Revven

Member
ashecitism said:
Edit: This article previously stated that Eric Monacelli is community strategist at Naughty Dog. He has since moved to Infinity Ward as director of communications.
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Oh whoaaaaaa, was it willingly? Eric was still at ND just before the Nathan Drake Collection came out. Wonder what happened...
 
O

oSoLucky

Member
EthanC said:
Please explain Uncharted 3's season pass then.
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There was an online pass, like many games last gen to try to fight the secondhand market, don't think there was a season pass I could be wrong about that though.

Also, no companies get a 'pass'. There are no shortage of outspoken members that have shit on literally every big game and company(maybe not Platinum). Just search the forums. I'll make it easy, type "Naughty Dog greed". Maybe users don't see every topic, but do some research before making generalizations.
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
"It's work, and you should pay for good work.”
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Well then with that kind of attitude, I am going to boycott all future Naughty Dog games.

I tutor kids and my primary focus is ensuring that the customers get the most out of what they are paying me so that they come back.

I do not treat them as walking sack of money and try gouging them for more money.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
"A clear-cut example of that is the burst rifle in The Last of Us. A lot of people thought 'Why are they charging for guns?' We did the research and noticed that a lot of players were having trouble jumping into the game for the first time, so we wanted to give people a weapon that was easily accessible and would give them a bit of a leg-up. There were other weapons if they were a more experienced player that they could buy – it's up to them. If you're already kicking ass, you probably don't need these, but if you want 'em, have 'em. It's just a matter of personal preference.
Click to expand...


WOW....That's PAY 2 WIN AT ITS FUCKING CORE. Buy weapons with real life money to basically be good.....this kind of DLC is not good work....its utter shit.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
jmaine_ph said:
As much as I hate microtransactions, I understand that I'm in the minority
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But are you in the minority? Its not like they would cease to do it if only a minority of players bought those things. Its all about them being profitable, if enough player buy it they keep making them.

What I think they don't usually account for is how much seen paid micro transactions on a game you bought might affect the perceived value of their games.
 
Melfice7

Melfice7

Member
Is this the motherfucker that thought tactical shotgun and stuff like bomb expert were good ideas? good work to pay for indeed
 
1

12BoM

Member
Or, how about you just balance the game better so rookies don't have to pay to win? The burst rifle and crossbow are some of the most unfair weapons I've ever seen
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Mr-Joker said:
Well then with that kind of attitude, I am going to boycott all future Naughty Dog games.

I tutor kids and my primary focus is ensuring that the customers get the most out of what they are paying me so that they come back.

I do not treat them as walking sack of money and try gouging them for more money.
Click to expand...

Calm down that quote is talking about stuff like singleplayer expansions ala Left Behind. Which is good work, and should obviously cost money to buy.
 
jmaine_ph

jmaine_ph

Member
Freeman said:
But are you in the minority? Its not like they would cease to do it if only a minority of players bought those things. Its all about them being profitable, if enough player buy it they keep making them.

What I think they don't usually account for is how much seen paid micro transactions on a game you bought might affect the perceived value of their games.
Click to expand...
Yea you make a great point. Most of these microtransactions probably take way less to implement then they are making even if the minority is the people buying them.
 
H

Hoje0308

Banned
Mr-Joker said:
Well then with that kind of attitude, I am going to boycott all future Naughty Dog games.

I tutor kids and my primary focus is ensuring that the customers get the most out of what they are paying me so that they come back.

I do not treat them as walking sack of money and try gouging them for more money.
Click to expand...

When you tutor kids do you teach them to actually read the article before getting salty and commenting?
 
G

Gipsy Danger

Member
Freeman said:
But are you in the minority? Its not like they would cease to do it if only a minority of players bought those things. Its all about them being profitable, if enough player buy it they keep making them.

What I think they don't usually account for is how much seen paid micro transactions on a game you bought might affect the perceived value of their games.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that 1% of the playerbase spends 99% of the money. I just made those numbers up but I believe it's pretty much the case in most MT heavy games.
 
E

EthanC

Banned
oSoLucky said:
There was an online pass, like many games last gen to try to fight the secondhand market, don't think there was a season pass I could be wrong about that though.

Also, no companies get a 'pass'. There are no shortage of outspoken members that have shit on literally every big game and company(maybe not Platinum). Just search the forums. I'll make it easy, type "Naughty Dog greed". Maybe users don't see every topic, but do some research before making generalizations.
Click to expand...

You are indeed wrong.
 
C

Chola

Banned
PeskyToaster said:
Yup. None of the paid weapons offered a clear advantage, if anything, they were worse.
Click to expand...

please explain this statement then

"We did the research and noticed that a lot of players were having trouble jumping into the game for the first time, so we wanted to give people a weapon that was easily accessible and would give them a bit of a leg-up"
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Ffs op, diude was giving his opinion, not an official stance from ND. Threads like this are why PR ends up handling everything.
 
KaoteK

KaoteK

Member
Except, you know, the work gets paid for when you buy the fucking game. I love Naughty Dog but this is bullshit.
 
R

RobNBanks

Banned
"A clear-cut example of that is the burst rifle in The Last of Us. A lot of people thought 'Why are they charging for guns?' We did the research and noticed that a lot of players were having trouble jumping into the game for the first time, so we wanted to give people a weapon that was easily accessible and would give them a bit of a leg-up. There were other weapons if they were a more experienced player that they could buy – it's up to them. If you're already kicking ass, you probably don't need these, but if you want 'em, have 'em. It's just a matter of personal preference.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing this burst rifle is OP since it's supposed to help new players. What's to stop experienced players from using it? It just puts the newer players back to square one.
 
Z

zsynqx

Member
InsaneTiger said:
Wow this whole thing has been taken out of context and the guy is gone! Let's here what Drunkmann has to say.
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I doubt he has anything to do with this type of stuff and is focused on SP and creative stuff. The co-presidents and Sony guys are more likely to blame.

Septic360 said:
What has Drukkmann said about Uncharted 3 season pass and TLOU locking off weapons behind a paywall?
Click to expand...

Druckmann didn't even work on Uncharted 3
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
BriareosGAF said:
As a dev there's probably no point wading in to this but...

During development your scope is invariably larger than you will be able to complete (insert maxim about work expanding to fill space/time etc). To hit your street date you scope down and cut the work you don't think you can complete that will have the least effect on the quality of the final product.

Towards ship you branch. The final game goes out, but the content team keeps working on things that couldn't make the ship date. You resurrect that cut level and repurpose and build something new and put it out there. Is the original purchaser entitled to it because it was being worked on while the game still wasn't out?

What if you didn't start repurposing work on it until the second DLC or some later TU? Is the purchaser still entitled to it?

What if you didn't resurrect it until the next game? Is the purchaser still entitled to it?

Ultimately it doesn't matter when a piece of content was 'developed'. The only thing a consumer can do is evaluate the product on sale at the time of purchase and decide if the value exchange is a good one.

I don't speak for my employer yada yada.
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Agreed with this completely.

This is how it has always been. The infrastructure just make it easier for the developers to now get paid for continuing work, and content to still come out/complete.

Back in the day, you would never see that content, unless you were lucky by a fluke chance code was complete enough before working on the next project to include "lost levels" in a "GOTY" edition a year or two later.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
PeskyToaster said:
Yup. None of the paid weapons offered a clear advantage, if anything, they were worse.
Click to expand...
Bullshit, ffs
However, the most egregious offender in the Tactical Weapons pack is the Crossbow. It's difficult to measure the advantage it gives because there is no other comparable weapon. It fires silently like the Bow but doesn't arc. Nominally, it can down in two shots, but it has a special ability that makes it absurdly powerful in some situations. After hitting an enemy with it, that enemy will bleed until he heals or is downed. This also lets the shooter see where the target is and what he's doing during that time period.

In effect, it can be a delayed one-hit kill. If the target has no health kit, he's toast. If he has a health kit and he starts healing, the Crossbow user can see the opening and move in for a sidearm or melee kill. Even if the target isn't downed, it still takes him out of the fight for a brief period of time as he retreats and heals. All from a single, silent shot.
Click to expand...
 
J

Jack The Nipper

Banned
I'd just like for developers and publishers to do a bit more math

the average person doesn;t make much more than 350 a week

after taxes and such they may bring home 1200 a week

rent at least 400 a month, phone, internet another 200 power, water other basic house needs another 200 .

Eating - has to be atleast 200 right

so we won't buy anything else developers, no more clothes, toys or extras... might as well cut out all sugar so we don't nee to buy tooth paste too and then we can afford for you to make more content for us perhaps.

It's cool that developers can draw or sit down and and have an amazing job and pull in 80k a year and afford to buy games and dlc packs, but we have to be realistic. A lot of people can't afford it. That's why they buy a game every two months, they are still responsible.
 
A

Angel_DvA

Member
I really like your work as a all but what you're saying here is wrong, TLoU micro transactions are a joke and don't deserve any praise, I have no problem with you wanted more money but saying that it's a lot of work and deserve to be bought because of it, is a Joke.

I'm not paying for cosmetics that should have been in the game at the first place or unlocked by achieving stuff online.

Édit: It seems like the dude isn't working for ND anymore, this thread need a huge edit.
 
xrnzaaas

xrnzaaas

Member
Bullshit explanation. I just hope that they make a good story DLC for Uncharted 4 and won't focus 90% of their manpower on microtransactions.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
AKyemeni said:
Burst Rifle?

That wasn't DLC...

So what the hell are they talking about? Besides, all the regular stuff was way better than the DLC they offered. All the competitive guys (me included) used the non-DLC items cuz they worked better.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is a reason Eric is no longer at ND? Maybe that's a bit speculative.

Still, it's an easy target to pile on and it's ND. High profile enough. Even if you take the fact that you can indeed play with those DLC weapons for FREE, you still have loadout customization behind a paywall and that's shitty. Obviously, many are oblivious to the difference because many out there have yet to play the game, and even some that have can't even tell the difference at times - which is rather puzzling. Anyhow in the end, in general, free, loadout customize-able weapons are better yet players should have the freedom to fine tune their loadouts no matter what with every weapon. The "paid weapons" are FREE on preset classes and people rather customize their loadout than settle for a class with ND-made parameters.

While the usual raging about weapons behind a paywall is not exactly as sold here, and many posters writing driveby's have no idea of the distinction (that much is clear), loadout customization still is very important in TLOU. So Yes, pile on, cause it's shitty nonetheless. They'll get the message even if they get to laugh at the common misconception. The consumer still is not as stupid to fail to notice there is at least something wrong in the scheme - and there is.
 
F

Future

Member
Jack The Nipper said:
he doesn't know what other developers are doing and I am sure a lot of it is something that is sort of cut sat on and sold later. It has been proven time and time again.


Anyways, work on making a full game first, then give us things at a later date that are actually extra. Guns and random crap are not things a lot of people want to pay for imo but maybe they do.


If it's legit content and we want it, of course we would want it post launch. Games are already expensive and they have to consider people don't make the money they do in most jobs.
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Not how it works. To get dlc out it is planned before the full game is done and often developed at the same time. Often it is impossible to actually complete it before the full game is done, but if you do not start it early it won't get done in time to release soon after launch. And there is a window of time where DLC sells the most after release, so it's not viable to wait and do it 9 months later unless you are GTA or something
 
A

AKyemeni

Member
Crossing Eden said:
Bullshit, ffs
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Try to use the thing in an actual match against competent people and do decent. You can't. It all sounds amazing and peachy on paper, but the maps are filled health kits and people healing. Plus, you have to waste parts on it. Every other purchaseable is better than it.
 
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