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[Fantasmo]

I'm fine with fun, for the sake of having fun. If that's already your personality, no hate. Do what you do.

But as a strategy "I'm gonna go out and tease women because then they will sleep with me" - I don't think it actually works on the general female populace (it works on a narrow type in particular cultures), and it causes people to presume that jerkiness is a desirable trait in human interactions. It's actually an arbitrary way of going through life, and a rather negative one at that. Many women (and also men) often get very turned off by the "playful insult" approach. Its no guarantor of social success at all.

If I had a choice between being with a partner where we goof around act silly and tease each other, and being serious, I'm going to choose the former every time. And clearly people are different. There's no one size fits all to anything in life, so I'd REALLY REALLY like to get past that, is that fair to say to you? So with that being said, I'm not so sure why you're arguing.

I'll repeat myself in case it was me that was being unclear. Tons of well adjusted people assuming they're single AND ready to date, meaning no traumas, no major mental hangups, no harsh feelings towards the opposite sex due to bad experiences... people who are ready and willing to date... TONS of them enjoy the teasing, the playfulness and the confidence.

So that being said, where are we at now? You can say "well yeah but plenty of people don't have this type of sense of humor" and that's all well and good. If we're playing a numbers game, since everyone is anyway in a sense, I'm going to make the choices that stack the odds in my favor. I'm going to develop my personality in a way where I invite positive happy and fun people into my life, and that's what most of these guys are doing.

I'm CERTAIN that if I looked, I'd find plenty of male oriented dating approaches that works for straight shooting gentlemen, but that's not necessarily playing the odds, especially in the way I see myself anyway, and doesn't attract the type of people whose company I enjoy.

And if you DO hate this stuff, well by all means call it junk and find stuff that appeals to you. Without checking at all, I'm sure it's out there and someone has monetized that type of approach by now.

But to say it doesn't work is stupid. It absolutely does work, on the type of people it's suited for. A lot of it has gotten really really good, and is great dating advice and material. And you only have to take it as far as you want to. Like anything else, keep what works and dump what doesn't.

Dating isn't a science because everyone's different, but there are practical approaches and if you want to develop yourself it helps to play in a way that gives you results for what works. And I'm telling you crystal clear, this stuff at least the more recent non-weird Mystery Method bullshit, is honest, helpful, and it just plain works.

It worked in the US, it worked in Holland, it worked in France, it worked in Italy, it worked in Croatia, it worked in Canada, my personality type has worked just about everywhere in meeting great women.

IT. WORKS.

 

[FStop7]

Train a nerd like an animal.

Stuff like this is being said in a extremely popular, widely-sold magazine. Yet, there is way more hate being thrown at a small subculture of nerds who give each other advice on picking up women.

It's like 3 throwaway lines in a copy of Cosmopolitan.

 

[twofold]

You're telling him he can't generalize while you do the same.

He was making generalisations about tactics that would work when hitting on women. I was making generalisations about human behaviour and trying to point out that, because of said human behaviour, tactics are pointless anyway.

The idea that people can fake more attractive personas and behaviours is nonsense. People can see through that stuff easily, and if someone is good enough to fool others into thinking that they're someone they're not, they should probably get into acting.

 

[way more]

A funeral for his single life. That's about as inspired and creative as his writing.

 

[Fantasmo]

He was making generalisations about tactics that would work when hitting on women. I was making generalisations about human behaviour and trying to point out that, because of said human behaviour, tactics are pointless anyway.

The idea that people can fake more attractive personas and behaviours is nonsense. People can see through that stuff easily, and if someone is good enough to fool others into thinking that they're someone they're not, they should probably get into acting.

This is not the point. Yes, faking who you are is stupid. However, developing yourself isn't. Why is personal development or personality development for a man stupid? At what point did this become a bad thing? You know, when I was born I could only slobber, cry, and poop my pants. I can do a few more things now. Everybody knows someone who doesn't have a clue. Hell, maybe you were that person at one point. Ever think someone needs help more than others? Some people need tutors. Other people need instrument or dance lessons. Should I go out of my way to shame them? And let me go one step further and say human bonding and relationships is at least 1000 times (and pulling that straight out of my ass with no shame at all), more important than any of those things. Life is just better when your relationships are too. I'll take that over a tutor any day.

 

[twofold]

This is not the point. Yes, faking who you are is stupid. However, developing yourself isn't. Why is personal development or personality development for a man stupid? At what point did this become a bad thing? You know, when I was born I could only slobber, cry, and poop my pants. I can do a few more things now. Everybody knows someone who doesn't have a clue. Hell, maybe you were that person at one point. Ever think someone needs help more than others? Some people need tutors. Other people need instrument or dance lessons. Should I go out of my way to shame them? And let me go one step further and say human bonding and relationships is at least 1000 times (and pulling that straight out of my ass with no shame at all), more important than any of those things. Life is just better when your relationships are too. I'll take that over a tutor any day.

I wasn't saying that guys shouldn't develop themselves. That's what all guys should be doing: improving themselves to become better people.

Guys should focus on becoming more attractive in general, meaning becoming more confident, improving their dress sense, hitting the gym, sorting out their careers and embracing their ambition, and all that other good stuff.

Self development is awesome and more people should embrace it.

I'll just leave this link here - http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/guest-post-what-game-is-and-isnt-by.html

I'm tired and I'm having difficulty properly articulating my thoughts at the moment. That link succinctly explains what I was trying to say.

 

[cdyhybrid]

somebody needs to save this woman immediately


why do girls always date the asshole ;_;

This post is so meta it's melting my brain.

 

[BocoDragon]

If I had a choice between being with a partner where we goof around act silly and tease each other, and being serious, I'm going to choose the former every time. And clearly people are different. There's no one size fits all to anything in life, so I'd REALLY REALLY like to get past that, is that fair to say to you? So with that being said, I'm not so sure why you're arguing.

I'll repeat myself in case it was me that was being unclear. Tons of well adjusted people assuming they're single AND ready to date, meaning no traumas, no major mental hangups, no harsh feelings towards the opposite sex due to bad experiences... people who are ready and willing to date... TONS of them enjoy the teasing, the playfulness and the confidence.

So that being said, where are we at now? You can say "well yeah but plenty of people don't have this type of sense of humor" and that's all well and good. If we're playing a numbers game, since everyone is anyway in a sense, I'm going to make the choices that stack the odds in my favor. I'm going to develop my personality in a way where I invite positive happy and fun people into my life, and that's what most of these guys are doing.

I'm CERTAIN that if I looked, I'd find plenty of male oriented dating approaches that works for straight shooting gentlemen, but that's not necessarily playing the odds, especially in the way I see myself anyway, and doesn't attract the type of people whose company I enjoy.

And if you DO hate this stuff, well by all means call it junk and find stuff that appeals to you. Without checking at all, I'm sure it's out there and someone has monetized that type of approach by now.

But to say it doesn't work is stupid. It absolutely does work, on the type of people it's suited for. A lot of it has gotten really really good, and is great dating advice and material. And you only have to take it as far as you want to. Like anything else, keep what works and dump what doesn't.

Dating isn't a science because everyone's different, but there are practical approaches and if you want to develop yourself it helps to play in a way that gives you results for what works. And I'm telling you crystal clear, this stuff at least the more recent non-weird Mystery Method bullshit, is honest, helpful, and it just plain works.

It worked in the US, it worked in Holland, it worked in France, it worked in Italy, it worked in Croatia, it worked in Canada, my personality type has worked just about everywhere in meeting great women.

IT. WORKS.

It sounds like we're coming at this from different places, then. If you view this kind if strategy as the best way to accentuate your personality, to maximize your chances with women, and maybe even to seek a certain type of woman - more power to you. I can imagine you're right.

But imagine a situation with a male who isn't already inclined to already be the teasing type. I would not advise this kid to start developing a cocky-funny teasing persona in the aim of trying to woo women. Teasing isn't actually the source of success at all - having a confidant social persona of any type is.

There are women who like the teasing, and those who are turned off by it. And same goes for the "gentlemanly" approach or any number of other persona types.

He was making generalisations about tactics that would work when hitting on women.

I was making a generalization in the sense that "one size does not fit all" is a generalization.

It's actually an argument against generalization.

 

[Fantasmo]

It sounds like we're coming at this from different places, then. If you view this kind if strategy as the best way to accentuate your personality, to maximize your chances with women, and maybe even to seek a certain type of woman - more power to you. I can imagine you're right.

But imagine a situation with a male who isn't already inclined to already be the teasing type. I would not advise this kid to start developing a cocky-funny teasing persona in the aim of trying to woo women. Teasing isn't actually the source of success at all - having a confidant social persona of any type is.

Okay so start with that instead of hating everyone involved. And furthermore that person, once they realize it doesn't fit them, the one who doesn't like that approach can say "Mystery sucks, Style sucks, RSD sucks" and go from there instead of berating the whole thing.

There is something for everyone and voila... Here's what I found in 30 seconds.

1 minute 52 seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQkAiTdbARU
Straight shooter, classy, no teasing. Pretty girls.

I wasn't saying that guys shouldn't develop themselves. That's what all guys should be doing: improving themselves to become better people.

Guys should focus on becoming more attractive in general, meaning becoming more confident, improving their dress sense, hitting the gym, sorting out their careers and embracing their ambition, and all that other good stuff.

Self development is awesome and more people should embrace it.

I'll just leave this link here - http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/guest-post-what-game-is-and-isnt-by.html

I'm tired and I'm having difficulty properly articulating my thoughts at the moment. That link succinctly explains what I was trying to say.

Dude I agree with you that faking it is bad, but if you want to be anything you have to put work into it. And personality is one of those things you can develop. If you don't like THIS kind of method, there are others as I posted above. I agree with the rest of your link but I firmly believe guys ABSOLUTELY should work on their confidence AND personalities. It is one of the greatest ways you can attract women, and if the guy has a good heart, she's just won an amazing faithful guy.

So I don't know where this fear comes from with women against dating advice for guys. The guys that need the most help might just end up being the best boyfriend you ever had. Women who are against this stuff are literally shooting themselves in the foot, they're actively working to keep their own dating pool small!

And one thing I'd like to point out is that some guys happened to have the right mix of introvertedness, poor social circle, too much studying, and other things, and while they look amazing on paper, they simply aren't desirable as mates. I dare any women to tell me otherwise with a straight face.

Example:I had a super good looking Cuban guy friend, with a flawless magazine physique, AND he was a doctor. He hasn't had a 2nd date in 10 years and not by choice.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Style is playful, check this out (he's still weird and robotic though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_qdqHzw92o

What a G

 

[BocoDragon]

Okay so start with that instead of hating everyone involved. And furthermore that person, once they realize it doesn't fit them, the one who doesn't like that approach can say "Mystery sucks, Style sucks, RSD sucks" and go from there instead of berating the whole thing.

I'm not disparaging the entire concept of pick up... But I do think many of its self-styled masters are egotists with pseudo-science about social interaction. Not all of them, of course. Many are cool people. But put on your BS detector when dealing with it.

And the "neg" is one of those pieces of pseudo-science. If that's how you naturally desire to play with women - by all means play. But the idea that its some replicatable trick that works on an innate trait of female psychology or social dynamics is false. It's just putting on a quirky personality trait that some might click with, others won't.

 

[Fantasmo]

I'm not disparaging the entire concept of pick up... But I do think many of its self-styled masters are egotists with pseudo-science about social interaction. Not all of them, of course. Many are cool people. But put on your BS detector when dealing with it.

And the "neg" is one of those pieces of pseudo-science. If that's how you naturally desire to play with women - by all means play. But the idea that its some replicatable trick that works on an innate trait of female psychology or social dynamics is false. It's just putting on a quirky personality trait that some might click with, others won't.

If you started off like this, instead of being dismissive or somewhat mocking, we wouldn't have had any conflict lol.

Anyway, yeah the newer stuff works and isn't fucking weird either as long as you're not obsessed with it. And OF COURSE there's no one size fits all approach, however mocking it is silly because some guys really need all the help they can get when "being yourself" doesn't cut it. Social skills can be developed if you weren't raised with it.

My whole point is that, it's anti-creepy. If anything, if you're going to work to have a girlfriend it forces you to get up off your ass and become uncreepy. And once again Mystery Method, what most of The Game was based on, is crap.

 

[Discotheque]

Ingrid de la O

...I'm not surprised at all that his fiancée has such a stupid ass name

 

[entremet]

I always notice that PUAs always have those crappy websites with the window pop ups asking you for your details. Man, that is annoying as heck.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I think there is confirmation bias here. The mentally abusive nature of women's magazines is a well-known, decades-old problem.

I'm just saying that both women and men manipulate each other, and both have sources telling them how to do so. I think this is normal because men and women don't always want the same things out of a relationship.

That said, I wouldn't immediately show disdain for someone who partakes in either. I might think some things said in Cosmo are bullshit, but there might be some kernels of truth there. The same goes for the pick-up artist community. I don't personally subscribe to it, but others might get something useful out of it if they are judicious.

You're drawing some arbitrary line saying that women's dating advice doesn't teach women to manipulate when it clearly does. You show disdain for men exchanging advice on how to please women, yet absolve women and say they are being abused by a magazine.

If you have a problem with one, I don't see how you cannot have a problem with the other. unless as you mentioned, there is bias involved.

This has more to do with the fact that you probably don't run in circles where there is a female majority. Because I see people (mostly women) shitting on stuff like Cosmo all the time. Not on GAF though for obvious reasons.

yeah, that's true. I didn't think of that. though it still seems like more shame is levelled upon dudes seeking advice than chicks doing the same.

 

[(._.)]

To play devil's advocate, his methods work, douchey or not.

Literally any "method" works, whatever you mean by method, if you have a little bit of confidence, a good life, and are interesting.

 

[(._.)]

Brofist.

Girls dislike sycophants to them more than guys do. Have some confidence, humour, reality, upfrontedness - these kinda guys go in with the attitude of 'nothing to lose' and that kind of honest is all people (men and women) want

Don't put the pussy on a...something

I've heard this advice stated before and I'd imagine it comes from a book like the one this guy wrote.

Needs to be restated properly:

It's not confidence in not caring if anything happens, nothing to lose sort of way. It's confidence in making yourself vulnerable and showing it. Showing you're putting yourself out there and are genuinely interested. Being confident in showing those strong feelings of interest in another person. Really caring if something does happen but respecting boundaries and being able to rebound and take a little pain/rejection if it doesn't. Which you will if you're looking for the perfect partner. This needs to be made clear.

Showing strong interest and being genuinely sweet towards a girl, being open etc will catch someone equally as interested in you way faster than wearing a fedora and pretending to act suave talking to every girl on the street throwing PUA lines etc. I'm not surprised to have read that the guy who wrote this book is short, pitiful.

It's 'confident in being open and showing genuine feelings of interest.' Not pretending to not care confident.

 

[Bleepey]

Out of curiosity how many people here have actually read the Game. I'd bet a lot don't truly have an informed opinion. I'd bet money Liu Kang sure as fuck hasn't.

I've heard this advice stated before and I'd imagine it comes from a book like the one this guy wrote.

Needs to be restated properly:

It's not confidence in not caring if anything happens, nothing to lose sort of way. It's confidence in making yourself vulnerable and showing it. Showing you're putting yourself out there and are genuinely interested. Being confident in showing those strong feelings of interest in another person. Really caring if something does happen but respecting boundaries and being able to rebound and take a little pain/rejection if it doesn't. Which you will if you're looking for the perfect partner. This needs to be made clear.

Showing strong interest and being genuinely sweet towards a girl, being open etc will catch someone equally as interested in you way faster than wearing a fedora and pretending to act suave talking to every girl on the street throwing PUA lines etc. I'm not surprised to have read that the guy who wrote this book is short, pitiful.

It's 'confident in being open and showing genuine feelings of interest.' Not pretending to not care confident.

Nice guys don't always get the girl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAAZjLy4js

Plus if just being a girl's friend guaranteed a relationship the friendzone wouldn't exist.

 

[BocoDragon]

I've heard this advice stated before and I'd imagine it comes from a book like the one this guy wrote.

Needs to be restated properly:

It's not confidence in not caring if anything happens, nothing to lose sort of way. It's confidence in making yourself vulnerable and showing it. Showing you're putting yourself out there and are genuinely interested. Being confident in showing those strong feelings of interest in another person. Really caring if something does happen but respecting boundaries and being able to rebound and take a little pain/rejection if it doesn't. Which you will if you're looking for the perfect partner. This needs to be made clear.

Showing strong interest and being genuinely sweet towards a girl, being open etc will catch someone equally as interested in you way faster than wearing a fedora and pretending to act suave talking to every girl on the street throwing PUA lines etc. I'm not surprised to have read that the guy who wrote this book is short, pitiful.

It's 'confident in being open and showing genuine feelings of interest.' Not pretending to not care confident.

This rings very true to me. I think you're onto something.

 

[Kinyou]

Yes, women love the ultra-nerd

 

[(._.)]

Nice guys don't always get the girl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsAAZjLy4js

Plus if just being a girl's friend guaranteed a relationship the friendzone wouldn't exist.

No... "Nice guys" are passive-aggressive men who are obsequious. It's as easy being that as it is disassociating your feelings and trying hard to act confident and not care etc. Taking on a role that confines your feelings to it is plastic and can be spotted by women. What takes guts is truly showing your feelings and giving a tiny genuine taste of them to someone you're interested in. Showing you're strongly interested but respecting boundaries. Wait a day to call etc bullshit is all untrue. All that shit wont matter if you've found someone that is as interested in you after showing them how interested you are in them. It's hard to do this because your feelings are on the line a bit when you make yourself vulnerable like this but what makes you attractive when you do this is that you're willing to face a little pain if you're rejected. Confidence shows when you put them out there. That is what's attractive. It's much easier said than done. I've never read his book but most of the shit related to his work I've seen teaches the "alpha male" tactics bullshit which doesn't actually work if you're looking for somebody worth opening up to.

EDIT: I just watched clicked on that video and I saw a 16 year old boy talking about probably a 16 year old girl that was not into him.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Out of curiosity how many people here have actually read the Game. I'd bet a lot don't truly have an informed opinion. I'd bet money Liu Kang sure as fuck hasn't.

You think the guy who's in every feminist thread hasn't read up on MRA 101?

What does it matter anyway? It's good that people are figuring out they need to be confident and lose their fear of rejection in order to play the numbers, but I think that's an idealistic view of how beneficial this culture has been. It's been destructive for all genders and is rightfully mocked.

 

[supergiz]

It always amazes me how much hate neogaf has for the PUA community. Like everything it has good things about it and bad. It helps a lot of guys take the first steps towards breaking out of their shell

 

[Bleepey]

You think the guy who's in every feminist thread hasn't read up on MRA 101?

What does it matter anyway? It's good that people are figuring out they need to be confident and lose their fear of rejection in order to play the numbers, but I think that's an idealistic view of how beneficial this culture has been. It's been destructive for all genders and is rightfully mocked.

Have you actually read the Game from cover to cover?

 

[wenis]

What a lucky woman...

 

[way more]

Have you actually read the Game from cover to cover?

Oh Lord, I hope not. It's stupidness can only be viewed like an ellipse. 450 page of a dull, unimaginative, starfucker.



What exactly does one gain by reading that bloated, plodding crap? Learning to wait for reviews of books before buying them?

 

[mjontrix]

Read the book, read a few other books/courses - I can say that it works. Before - couldn't even talk to a girl properly, social anxiety. Now - I'm doing great, not worried to be talking to girls, calm, confident.

I will say about the negging is that it's aimed at girls who are fawned over and swarmed by betas. It's absolutely not for the girl you went to uni with.

Seriously who has actually read the book? So many here clearly haven't.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

The PUMest of the PUMs.

Translator's note: PUM stands for Pick Up Master.

 

[RayStorm]

What does it matter anyway? It's good that people are figuring out they need to be confident and lose their fear of rejection in order to play the numbers, but I think that's an idealistic view of how beneficial this culture has been. It's been destructive for all genders and is rightfully mocked.

Would you mind expanding on that? What damage has been done?

 

[zero shift]

Seriously who has actually read the book? So many here clearly haven't.

This is always asked in this thread and many of us have responded with a resounding "yes".