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[brian!]

As an aside, ppl who have only ever played the android version, no that is not how fast the cutscenes and summons are supposed to be

 

[ASilentProtagonist]

I'd only recommend the android versions to people who have beaten the game atleast once on PSX, and want to play FFT on the go.

 

[Sho Nuff]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

 

[PfantzyPantz]

Yeah all this thread is doing is making me want to play WotL that much more; man do I love flowery writing.

C'mon SE, how much longer til the (hopefully inevitable) PC port ;_;

 

[Galava]

Saving this for future bs I read.

 

[SaintGalgo]

Well FFXIV is kind a travesty in this regard, and having recently finished Heavensward, rolling my eyes all the while, I can't defend it at all. But I also don't begrudge them working from a template like that because of the sheer amount of text. 90% of the playerbase skips it anyway. There is little merit, artistic or financial, to seriously editing MMO text like you would something smaller and personal like FFT.

I don't have an issue with "flowery language" but FFXIV is not nearly as bad as WotL. Different characters from different backgrounds have specific speech patterns. Only the Sharlayans and Dravanians "speak" archaic english (though I guess, they're the ones we as players have more exposure with in the main story), Urianger and Minfilia being the worst offenders. Characters with a status of power speak more formally. Pirates speak like pirates, each beast tribe has their own speech gimmick, normal characters speak like normal people. The localization team might have made some mistakes before, but they do "seriously edit" MMO text and the above is just not fair.

 

[brian!]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

Can you speak on the intent and goals of the translation? Im super curious if how i received it (i felt like the translation was at times winking knowingly at the player) coincides w/ what the team was going for. Also, the names! Pls speak on how that came about

 

[ethomaz]

Fitting but is it the best possible way to communicate what he's saying? If it's leaving players scratching their heads, then there's a better way to say it while being faithful to the period/setting of the game.

That the same to say movies, books, etc based on 1500 needs to use modern speak... games needs to fit the period/setting.

There is nothing incomprehensible in WOTL translation or that will make "leaving players scratching their heads".

The use of different language/speak in games, movies, books, etc has a great pourpose... it gives authenticity to the story giving a better immersion to the reader/watcher/player.

I will say any translation that translate something in different period using modern language is pretty bad doing the job and I will mostly avoid him.

 

[Skilletor]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

You did good.

 

[ethomaz]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

You guys did a good job there.

Sad the WOTL version of the game are infreeior to original... the translation is way way way better.

I hope your translation to be used in a dreamed PS4 port fixing the PSP/mobile issues.

 

[TetraGenesis]

I remember misliking the original translation quite a bit and enjoying the WOTL translation a lot more. I decided to look up a more comprehensive comparison and I remain convinced that WOTL is better.

https://dekaja.dreamwidth.org/1675.html

edit: Here are a couple examples of where the WOTL translation provides more explanation although is a bit more wordy.

PS1: It's about time you learned about 'difference'! Different birth, totally different life! It's fate! Neither should've been here! Should've been flower sellers somewhere!
PSP: Is it not time you awoke to the fact that we are different from them? They are of lesser birth, and so meant to play lesser roles in life! Such is the nature of fate, Ramza! That commoner and his sister ought never have been here at all! Had they been mongering flowers on some street corner, she would yet live.

-

PS1: I've taken my whole life for granted. When it came down to it I dropped it all and ran.
PSP: I had lived my life the only way that I had known. But when the pillars of that life came crashing down, I did not stand and watch them fall. I turned, and walked away.

-

PS1: Correct me if I'm wrong... Either way, the girl was to be released anyway.
PSP: Should I? Well, it matters not. There was no question as to her release.

-

PS1: Then Golagros was wrong. But he is with you, correct?
PSP: So, Gragoroth has erred. But surely the girl must hold some connection with House Beoulve?

Look how excellent that second translation is! Exceptional writing! Vivid, expressive, and full of life.

Also, I find it amusing that multiple people in this thread have referred to Elizabethan English as "Old English". No wonder you're having trouble understanding it if you can't even distinguish it from a language that developed a millennia before.

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

You set a bar for localizations! Beautiful work.

 

[Axiology]

Yeah, not a huge fan of these translations. It's like trying to sound like Shakespeare, but without his sensibility. Instead of coming off as authentic it just feels like a modern writer trying as hard as he can to sound "theatrical." Shakespeare had a penchant for coming up with gripping, memorable lines.

I also feel that even when you can figure out what's going on after a few reads it ends up killing the emotion of the scene. Especially when the dialogue isn't spoken.

Of course you wouldn't want to just put contemporary English into the game either, but the examples in the OP are several steps too far.

 

[brian!]

Look how excellent that second translation is! Exceptional writing! Vivid, expressive, and full of life.

Also, I find it amusing that multiple people in this thread have referred to Elizabethan English as "Old English". No wonder you're having trouble understanding it if you can't even distinguish it from a language that developed a millennia before.

1st example is great, really makes you want to punch algus still, and he's quite manic in both versions. The 2nd example is part of why i prefer the orig; here ramza is portrayed as a coward who can't deal, but to me the translation makes it seem like he's consciously renouncing something. It's written excellently ofc tho

 

[fvng]

The clearest possible communication to the largest possible target audience cannot be the only purpose of writing in entertainment. Otherwise everything should be ELI5.

That is silly. I am arguing for clarity with beautiful prose. That's the crux of this thread. The game most succeeds at this, except when it doesn't, which leads to off putting lines of dialogue. Don't tell me it's not possible when the game does a good job of it 80% of the time

 

[Sho Nuff]

Can you speak on the intent and goals of the translation? Im super curious if how i received it (i felt like the translation was at times winking knowingly at the player) coincides w/ what the team was going for. Also, the names! Pls speak on how that came about

God, I really don't remember much about this project -- I was juggling a bunch at the time. All I remember is that the translation team was stupidly good, and they very clearly pitched what they were going for -- I was like "Welp, I can't argue with that," and did my best I could to support 'em. I was worried it'd be really polarizing, but the reviews seemed to dig it.

Btw, all the translators attached to this are all superstars -- Slattery, Reeder, Bright, and Fox. Each of them has gone on to do incredible work. I was super lucky to work with these guys.

 

[Durante]

That is silly. I am arguing for clarity with beautiful prose. That's the crux of this thread. The game most succeeds at this, except when it doesn't, which leads to off putting lines of dialogue. Don't tell me it's not possible when the game does a good job of it 80% of the time

But pretty much every single example you have shown of it "failing" I actually liked.

 

[AuthenticM]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

Why were the spell/skills quotations removed?

 

[Worldshaker]

I'd only recommend the android versions to people who have beaten the game atleast once on PSX, and want to play FFT on the go.

I see lots of people dismiss the PSP version, but its very easy to remove the slowdown and even fix the aspect ratio on the PSP version with CFW.

Buy a cheap PSP, add CFW, and you can play the definitive version of FFT.

 

[Desi]

The OP is wrong and I hope he lives with that shame. Good bye

 

[truly101]

The style seems more Victorian era English than Shakespeare

 

[Sho Nuff]

Why were the spell/skills quotations removed?

Apologies, but I can't remember stuff like this.

 

[Skilletor]

That is silly. I am arguing for clarity with beautiful prose. That's the crux of this thread. The game most succeeds at this, except when it doesn't, which leads to off putting lines of dialogue. Don't tell me it's not possible when the game does a good job of it 80% of the time

None of the examples you've posted are off putting to me.

 

[Lothar]

God, I really don't remember much about this project -- I was juggling a bunch at the time. All I remember is that the translation team was stupidly good, and they very clearly pitched what they were going for -- I was like "Welp, I can't argue with that," and did my best I could to support 'em. I was worried it'd be really polarizing, but the reviews seemed to dig it.

Btw, all the translators attached to this are all superstars -- Slattery, Reeder, Bright, and Fox. Each of them has gone on to do incredible work. I was super lucky to work with these guys.

Why didn't you storm into their offices and start screaming when you heard they were taking out the "Blame yourself or God" line? And the battle lines for the spells?

Or did you do that? If so, good.

 

[ethomaz]

I misunderstood the comment lol

 

[GearDraxon]

lol myrrh is not the same as mirth

No, man... they bring four gifts: gold, a guy named Frank, incense, and mirth.

 

[tuxfool]

No, man... they bring four gifts: gold, a guy named Frank, incense, and mirth.

I'd value the gift of mirth.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

I really like the script for this game, it felt concise and well implemented, so kudos on a job well done. Hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions:

Did you ever feel that the translators veered too much into complex prose? Was there ever a paring back?

Do you have any interesting stories from the editing process? Was there ever any issues faced with the implementation? (if you were involved in the implementation, I mean)

Spoiler

Did you get receive l i t t l e m o n e y?

 

[Seiru]

This exists for OP and those like him:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

If you ever want to read up on anything.

 

[fvng]

But pretty much every single example you have shown of it "failing" I actually liked.

thats okay bro.. if "What once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" makes total sense to you, more power to you.

This exists for OP and those like him:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

If you ever want to read up on anything.

LOLOL I'M A SIMPLETON, AM I RIGHT FELLOW INTELLECUTAL GIANTS?? Dude, get over yourself. There are clunky lines in WOTL, it's not a perfect translation.

 

[fvng]

I wasn't calling you a Trump supporter, I was making a joke about what another retranslation could be. Trump has a very particular way of speaking that appeals to many people in middle America.

No one is asking for the dialogue to be dumbed down to a 4th grade level #Strawman

Lol. Okay.

A dismissive okay doesn't invalidate his point. sigh

 

[Haly]

I don't have an issue with "flowery language" but FFXIV is not nearly as bad as WotL. Different characters from different backgrounds have specific speech patterns. Only the Sharlayans and Dravanians "speak" archaic english (though I guess, they're the ones we as players have more exposure with in the main story), Urianger and Minfilia being the worst offenders. Characters with a status of power speak more formally. Pirates speak like pirates, each beast tribe has their own speech gimmick, normal characters speak like normal people. The localization team might have made some mistakes before, but they do "seriously edit" MMO text and the above is just not fair.

Well the OP accuses WotL of being pretentious and fraudulent but that's exactly how I felt about the Sharlayans and Dravanians' mode of speech. They're simplistic attempts at invoking "ye olde englishe.

Also regarding the "lul Treehouse meme translations", FFXIV suffers from that as well. It's the worst of both worlds I feel.

(I do like how the goblins talk at least.)

 

[fvng]

War of the Lions is incredibly ambitious in what it tries to do and does a good job providing its own unique sense of flare to the localization. That being said, I don't really enjoy the faux olde English style that much of the cast speaks in. It's just not my preferred style of writing, and I rarely thought WotL completely accomplished what it set out to do. I think it suffers from a lack of brevity more than anything - which I understand is a stylistic choice, but there are many instances where it felt like they tried too hard to expand every phrase rather than leave some alone, which cost it some poignancy.

The "You speak false" line is a good example of this. "I'll not believe you" conveys mannerisms and speech well. "You speak false" feels ridiculous as an exclamation. The latter part of this line is already intended to serve as repetition and expansion of the first section. Expanding the first part is unnecessary, and makes the legwork of the second sentence redundant in effect rather than expansionary.

I actually like a lot of examples in the OP, but stuff like "I mislike this" feels like they were trying a bit too hard to avoid any more obvious options.

either "way" I'll "take" it over l i t t l e m o n e y, even if I'm endeared to the bluntness of the original (frequently nonsensical) translation.

.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

thats okay bro.. if "What once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" makes total sense to you, more power to you.

If "Who once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" doesn't make total sense to you, I don't know what to tell you, bro.

Would "[They w]ho once was [her kin], [is] now kin to naught but woe" make sense to you? If it doesn't I can break it down more for you:

• First, I assume you know what "Who once was" refers to but I'll go over this part of the sentence: "Who" is an unknown person, "once" refers that a period of time is past, "was" is the verb 'to be'. This person was in the past.
• Second, "hers" is a possessive (of the "child" of the last sentence, context matters) that refers to the later stated "kin". We know now that it's her kin that's being referred to.
• Third, "now kin to"; I assume you know what kin means, but still it means familial relationships. "now kin to" begins the implication that whomever is being referred to (not the "her" but the "who") changed possession of kinship to another party. Whomever is no longer her kin, they are someone/thing else's.
• Fourth, "naught but woe". Again, I assume you know these words but I'll go over them either way: "Naught" means nothing, "but" is an exclusion, "woe" is distress or sorrow.
• Put together it forms an idea, with previous sentence fragments, that the kinship of the person is no longer "hers" but instead only sorrow's.

This is not a complicated sentence. It is very literal and simple to read. It's not ambiguous or vague. It does not use words that you wouldn't be in any dime a dozen novel. It does not use sentence structures that are hard to parse or that are particularly archaic.

I did not need to break it down at all. I mean, if the sentence doesn't make total sense to you, you should maybe try paying more attention. Because that's not a difficult to comprehend sentence.

EDIT:

Any pushback I'm getting in this thread is assuming I am taking issue with easily understood lines of dialogue in this game, which is like 90% of the game.... My issue is with lines of dialogue that are unnecessarily complicated for the sake of doing so, almost to a fault.

But you just said,

if "What once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" makes total sense to you

, with the implication that that sentence making total sense is not common. Which is taking issue with easily understood lines of dialogue.

 

[kiaaa]

thats okay bro.. if "What once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" makes total sense to you, more power to you.

For the tenth time, that line:

1. Stands out even among the rest of the dialogue. It's an ancient beast speaking.

2. Makes no sense out of context. It's not a problem with the dialogue.

No one is asking for the dialogue to be dumbed down to a 4th grade level #Strawman


Yeah.... Terms like "I am come" and "I mislike this" aren't really philosophical, they're just awkward...

Any pushback I'm getting in this thread is assuming I am taking issue with easily understood lines of dialogue in this game, which is like 90% of the game.... My issue is with lines of dialogue that are unnecessarily complicated for the sake of doing so, almost to a fault.

Again, ancient beast. "I am come" is entirely appropriate and sets a certain tone at a point in the game where the Lucavi still seem mythlike. I still don't see your issue with mislike. It's such a small thing and it fits in with the rest of the text.

The pushback you're getting is because a lot of people feel that 100% of the game is easily understood rather than unnecessarily complicated.

A dismissive okay doesn't invalidate his point. sigh

His point? He's trying to argue that the word mirth is obscure and when people gave him modern authors that use the word, he said they don't count.

 

[themaskedndi]

It's been nearly 10 years since I last played WotL (geez), so it's not fresh in my head. That said, I absolutely remember being annoyed with the translation from time to time. When the style works, it works wonderfully, but the script contains some really clunky lines.

I also need to add that the word "mirth" appears in freaking Wayne's World.

http://waynesworld.wikia.com/wiki/Mirthmobile

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I have another one.

What the hell does "mere will enough" mean?

Holy shit, are you serious? First mirth, now this?

Do you even read books ever? Serious question. Again English is my second language and this sentence isn't remotely ambiguous.

thats okay bro.. if "What once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" makes total sense to you, more power to you.

It makes sense to me...

LOLOL I'M A SIMPLETON, AM I RIGHT FELLOW INTELLECUTAL GIANTS?? Dude, get over yourself. There are clunky lines in WOTL, it's not a perfect translation.

Yeah well. So far you have posted zero examples of lines that are hard to decipher. You might have a point if all you said was "this line is a bit awkward" (which would just be an opinion), but your statements on readability have had zero justification unless you are indeed not that literate, I'm afraid.

Spoiler

Decipher means understanding and interpreting btw

 

[fvng]

If "Who once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" doesn't make total sense to you, I don't know what to tell you, bro.

Would "[They w]ho once was [her kin], now kin to naught but woe" make sense to you? If it doesn't I can break it down more for you:

• First, I assume you know what "Who once was" refers to but I'll go over this part of the sentence: "Who" is an unknown person, "once" refers that a period of time is past, "was" is the verb 'to be'. This person was in the past.
• Second, "hers" is a possessive (of the "child" of the last sentence, context matters) that refers to the later stated "kin". We know now that it's her kin that's being referred to.
• Third, "now kin to"; I assume you know what kin means, but still it means familial relationships. "now kin to" begins the implication that whomever is being referred to (not the "her" but the "who") changed possession of kinship to another party. Whomever is no longer her kin, they are someone/thing else's.
• Fourth, "naught but woe". Again, I assume you know these words but I'll go over them either way: "Naught" means nothing, "but" is an exclusion, "woe" is distress or sorrow.
• Put together it forms an idea, with previous sentence fragments, that the kinship of the person is no longer "hers" but instead only sorrow's.

This is not a complicated sentence. It is very literal and simple to read. It's not ambiguous or vague. It does not use words that you wouldn't be in any dime a dozen novel. It does not use sentence structures that are hard to parse or that are particularly archaic.

I did not need to break it down at all. I mean, if the sentence doesn't make total sense to you, you should maybe try paying more attention. Because that's not a difficult to comprehend sentence.

bro, the fact that you had to break it down with 300 word explanation validates my observation that readability was sacrificed to give the script an air of classic literary prose. I know what every word in that sentence means, it doesn't mean the sentence is easily or instantly understandable on first read. Get real. We are talking about faux-archaic english, don't tell me there isn't flexibility there to make it both eloquent and immediately coherent to the player.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

bro, the fact that you had to break it down with 300 word explanation validates my observation that readability was sacrificed to give the script an air of prestige.

lol, whoosh

You do realize that Zero-ELEC was making fun of you with this breakdown, right? I mean they're explaining to you that "hers" is a possessive... xD Also they literally said "I did not need to break it down at all" and you respond with "bro, the fact that you had to break it down proves my point!!"

SMH

 

[fvng]

Yeah well. So far you have posted zero examples of lines that are hard to decipher. You might have a point if all you said was "this line is a bit awkward" (which would just be an opinion), but your statements on readability have had zero justification unless you are indeed not that literate, I'm afraid.

Spoiler

Decipher means understanding and interpreting btw

You're not reading honey, the game alternates from easily understood/beautiful to 'easily understood but awkward' (I mislike this) to just straight up difficulty for the sake of attempting to emulate older literary works...

Do you understand now? Do you honestly think I am putting "I am come" into the undecipherable category or the 'awkward but easily understood' category? Don't play strawman

 

[kiaaa]

bro, the fact that you had to break it down with 300 word explanation validates my observation that readability was sacrificed to give the script an air of classic literary prose..

The fact that you didn't get the point he was trying to make is kinda telling.

 

[fvng]

lol, whoosh

You do realize that Zero-ELEC was making fun of you with this breakdown, right? I mean they're explaining to you that "hers" is a possessive... xD Also they literally said "I did not need to break it down at all" and you respond with "bro, the fact that you had to break it down proves my point!!"

SMH

The fact that you didn't get the point he was trying to make is kinda telling.

i'm in defensive mode.. but okay, that's actually a funny post. Was not sure if he was being tongue in cheek.

 

[Gauntlet]

I never actually noticed the iambic pentameter thing, but looking back on the script, all the Lucavi speak that way. That's a neat detail.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I was the editor on this game (PSP version) and I'm a strong believer in accountability, so feel free to unload on me.

Why did no one notice the slowdown issues that occur in this version of the game?

 

[suzu]

I find the new translation quite charming and fun to read. The first example is a hodgepodge, but I liked the rest.

 

[fvng]

Why did no one notice the slowdown issues that occur in this version of the game?

I'm pretty sure he means script editor, not getting into the weeds of porting the game to other hardware. Also, not sure if he's serious

 

[Lothar]

Holy shit, are you serious? First mirth, now this?

Do you even read books ever? Serious question. Again English is my second language and this sentence isn't remotely ambiguous.

It's just a terribly written sentence. It's complete gibberish with the missing "is", along the lines of "The Truck have started to move." I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Yes, mirth is still obscure. Pointing out that it was used once or twice in a massive book series doesn't change that.

 

[kiaaa]

It's just a terribly written sentence. It's complete gibberish with the missing "is", along the lines of "The Truck have started to move." I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Just because it isn't modern English doesn't mean it's gibberish.

Yes, mirth is still obscure. Pointing out that it was used once or twice in a massive book series doesn't change that.

It's been used "once or twice" in a lot of books, both classical and modern.

 

[Haly]

Language is character. If the Lucavi spoke more simply and straightforwardly, it just brings them closer to the humans in Ivalice in thought and culture. By making them speak in English, but a very outdated, obtuse (by modern standards) yet legible English, it enhances their other-timeliness. If you transported a 14th century peasant to today, you would probably find them unintelligible as well, much more than the Lucavi apparently are, and this is both expected and appropriate.

Unrelated to the above, I note proficient English-as-second-language speakers tend to have a wider vocabulary than native speakers, likely because they made an intentional study of it in many forms, rather than absorbing it through simple osmosis.

 

[Axiology]

I think a lot of you are focusing way too much on how "decipherable" the language is rather than on how natural it seems. You're not supposed to go out of your way to decipher what's being said in a piece of media. Not when there are thousands of dialogue boxes to blow through.

Sure, Shakespeare's language has a very poetic bent to it, but I never struggle to buy that they're actual conversations.

 

[Skilletor]

I think a lot of you are focusing way too much on how "decipherable" the language is rather than on how natural it seems. You're not supposed to go out of your way to decipher what's being said in a piece of media. Not when there are thousands of dialogue boxes to blow through.

Sure, Shakespeare's language has a very poetic bent to it, but I never struggle to buy that they're actual conversations.

And some people don't seem to understand that may don't have to decipher it. There is nothing confusing or unreadable in the text for many people.

It felt natural for the world and the characters.