NoctisVsStar
Member
1080p and 30 fps based tabata bring on FFXV.. Can't until e3 so we can get that coming in 2016 trailer I'll preorder that bad boy right away.
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Final Fantasy XV - Luminous Studio tech interview (Part 1)
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
Don't think we expected otherwise.
The biggest problem with Crystal Tools was that they were just total & utter shit for the kinds of games SQEX typically makes. For example, CT apparently was completely horrible for any kind of larger open environments. That's partly why FFXIII is so linear and the biggest open area was the fairly small open field on Pulse, why FFXIV 1.0 had horrible issues with having larger areas and why FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns had more performance issues than FFXIII (they made slightly bigger & more open areas for FFXIII-2 and didn't have time to work out the issues, LR is "open world" so not only did it run badly, the quality of environmental graphics was horrible because CT couldn't handle anything better).
While Luminous doesn't seem to have been a completely unproblematic project, the end result still seems to be vastly superior in actually being able to handle a game like FFXV and its development.
The reason KHIII switched to UE4 seems to mostly be because the Osaka Team doesn't have experience with current console level development at all, so to use Luminous would mean they'd need a lot of help from the Luminous team (they even admitted as much around KHIII's announcement), but as the Luminous team are tied to FFXV and because they don't seem to want to wait for them to be finished with that before jumping deeply into KHIII's development since they probably want to release it ASAP, it made sense for KHIII to switch and get the kind of help they need for their engine optimization/development from Epic. The other Luminous projects are probably games that are in fairly early states of development and possibly from teams with some level of PS360/PC experience, so they aren't necessarily in such dire need of assistance from the Luminous team yet.
NoctisVsStar
Member
No one did given the scale.
SolidSnakex
Member
20% of a character's polycount is dedicated to hair.
Japan sure has a really strange fascination with hair.
It's actually surprising that we aren't seeing more developers trying to do anything with hair. There have been big advancements with cloth animation so far this gen, but hair really hasn't advanced much at all. You just see higher detail textures for the hair, but still very little movement.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I sure hope no one did, but honestly, there probably are some goofs out there who would be upset to hear this.
copelandmaster
Member
Probably should've saved my comparison post from a month ago that got me chewed out for this thread.
So, Agni's characters still have 4x the polys, but a lot of that is from stuff you can't see, like feet inside shoes and what not.
Spirits Within characters were 100,000~ for the body and 300,000 more with clothes. Aki from SW had 60,000 more for her hair, only 3x that of Noctis and friends.
The spec increases from last gen are insane. We've come a long way. We're almost there. When PS5/Xbox2 come out, we probably won't need Visual Works save for computationally huge stuff.
So, Agni's characters still have 4x the polys, but a lot of that is from stuff you can't see, like feet inside shoes and what not.
Spirits Within characters were 100,000~ for the body and 300,000 more with clothes. Aki from SW had 60,000 more for her hair, only 3x that of Noctis and friends.
The spec increases from last gen are insane. We've come a long way. We're almost there. When PS5/Xbox2 come out, we probably won't need Visual Works save for computationally huge stuff.
The real question is how many will be disappointed when it's 25?
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Because it's a huge performance killer.
Why not?
NoctisVsStar
Member
I wouldn't mind if the ps5/xb2 consoles came in high and ultra variants. You pay a little bit more for the extra performance boost of course that's never gonna happen. Anyway back on topic the increase has been amazing so far FFXV looks to be the best open world game this gen. The order due to it's linear nature is the best looking game I think.
Not in terms of models which is where the real 'wow' factor was. Which speaks volumes to me. If you can get an approximation of visual works models, the environmental detail outside of that is less important for capturing the feel of SE's CG. There's a "good enough" level.
SolidSnakex
Member
Sure, but XV is one of the best looking upcoming games while still being open world. So, it's not like advancing in that department just kills everything else about the game. It's always going to cause a performance hit no matter the generation, so at some people developers juts have to bite the bullet.
But the character models are what are probably the closest to AP in terms of quality. It's the environments that don't have nearly as much detail and some of the VFX so far as well.
Literally no one in the world expects this. I'm sure not even you, despite attempts to stir shit up.
I think at this stage the amount of character polygons has a much lesser impact on the models themselves than lighting, shaders, and textures, areas in which they've come extremely close to. The extra 100,000+ polygons were mentioned for mostly the hair and clothing anyway, in which case the designs in AP just had a lot more going on instead of the usual formal dress shirts and pants in FFXV.
The models have come extremely close.
Please read before you say ridiculous things like this.
It is using Luminous technology then, but not the whole engine which is what I think a lot of people here meant.
it isn't using Luminous technology. Some people from the Luminous team worked on the engine so some of it is SIMILAR to Luminous, but it was still created for FFXIV ARR specifically and not just taken straight from Luminous and implemented into FFXIV in the same way VsXIII was said to use the lighting tech from Luminous.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Hopefully they can achieve stable 30 fps. I've seen Lightning running around the open area and the frame rate tanked pretty badly, but of course the development of LR was fairly rushed and was on older engine.
If you say so.
Crystal Tools was poor at running large environments. Luminous should be okay. Hopefully.
OccamsBlender
Member
GAF expects 60fps as the standard for all games nowadays. The rest of the world doesn't care.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
KHIII could maybe achieve 60fps, though it really depends on what they are trying to achieve with the game. If it doesn't stray too far from the kind of environments they've shown so far, 60fps should be doable. But if those are just some early prototype stuff and they are aiming for something much grander and detailed in the final game, maybe not.
I mean, if FFXV seems to be running this well at this point and it has a huge (almost) seamless world and generally more detailed graphics, then KHIII has a chance of being 60fps. It will probably have larger environments than past KH games but they are still restricted to the separate worlds thing and the graphical style is simpler, so I would think 60fps isn't completely impossible. Somewhat unlikely considering the franchise & SQEX's past, perhaps, but not completely impossible.
flipswitch
Member
Where does it say 1080p is the target, or wasn't it in this article?
Super Rookie
Member
Does not compute...
^ They are talking about an average FF13 scene versus a FF15 scene. Lightning's realtime model in the 13 series for example had about 5 to 7 thousand poly's. Going from that to 100,000 is..a bit more than 5 times though
I get the feeling that stella model isn't gameplay version. Its probably a special zero level LOD that they can use for certain cut scenes where they can actually control the environment around the character to get the maximum amount of polygons. Don't expect that in general run of play i don't think.
On that note, i really hope they have ditched visual works CG cutscenes or atleast pared them back for only SUPER special scenes. Otherwise there's really no point in even having real time models on that Stella level if your just going to use CG like you normally do.
I think at this stage the amount of character polygons has a much lesser impact on the models themselves than lighting, shaders, and textures, areas in which they've come extremely close to. The extra 100,000+ polygons were mentioned for mostly the hair and clothing anyway, in which case the designs in AP just had a lot more going on instead of the usual formal dress shirts and pants in FFXV.
The models have come extremely close.
I get the feeling that stella model isn't gameplay version. Its probably a special zero level LOD that they can use for certain cut scenes where they can actually control the environment around the character to get the maximum amount of polygons. Don't expect that in general run of play i don't think.
On that note, i really hope they have ditched visual works CG cutscenes or atleast pared them back for only SUPER special scenes. Otherwise there's really no point in even having real time models on that Stella level if your just going to use CG like you normally do.
GreenMakoEyes
Member
glad to hear that beautys resolution is 1920 x 1080.
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ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
It definitely sounds like the engine is healthy and will be beneficial to multiple (Final Fantasy titles I am sure) titles in the future. By the time FF15 is released the engine will be more than ready to make development of other games easy. I guess it's been a slow burner for them to get it to the quality they have seeked in terms of having big scale RPGs and the tools to make the development process profitable.
From the tiny snippet of other products I wonder if they have another team working on the next mainline Final Fantasy title?
From the tiny snippet of other products I wonder if they have another team working on the next mainline Final Fantasy title?
funkystudent
Member
Target resolution 2 years out from release means nothing.
I don't know about this.
I mean, it's one hella of an engine, but if it is being used for other titles, how can they benefit 100% from it if the original team who created it is completely assimilated into FFXV's one?
I hope it doesn't create another VersusXIII situation, where a game in its early stages gets put in the rear for too long for the sake of the one closest to release.
Also yeah, i'm sure they've been prototyping/conceptualizing the next FF for a while now.
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ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
From what I read a while back I thought it was just the Lumunous team that has moved over to assist majorly with this title but they are still their own thing? I doubt Square wants to see all this investment fail and go into ruin and everything we have seen so far seems great with how the game is handling big open areas and graphic fidelity.
The only thing I have no clue about is how their production teams work now. In the past there use to be two (or more?) teams working on the series and quickly rolling them out. Would they have another small size team that is working on pre production for FF16 so when the bulk of 15 is done will the other team move over to assist or do their own thing? That's the thing I am not too sure on since how big development for games are these days.
Sounds like they're momentarily fully integrated in XV team.
It's also not the first time we hear about this.
Maybe they left out some members to help other teams? Dunno
Me neither.
We know there is the XV team, which is formed i guess by part of the Versus Team and Type-0 Team. Then you have the XIV team that at one point before ARR released was the biggest one, so i guess when it got released some of them got spread around. And then the LR staff, which who knows what they're working on, probably prototyping XVI (or FFVIIlolRemake). But it's a big studio, since they also have smaller teams working on 3DS and mobile games, so who knows how internal resources placement works.
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ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Ah I didn't see that before. I am sure the studio must exist in some capacity and all related staff probably still have the flexibility to assist on potentially other "teams" that are in the early stages of FF16 or whatever titles that the tech member has hinted at. We can both agree that they must have some kind of future plan with future titles and wanting to get them released in a 2-3 year scale than being caught off guard with last gen and how awful their development pipeline was and how in that era it damaged the series quality to some fashion.
I thought a fair lot of work of 14 was outsourced to China to help with a lot of the content so I wonder what the size of the team is for this now. It must be a reasonable amount since of how much work they are doing. The FF13/LR team is a good bet on them working on something right now (outside who could be leading this). This is probably still way too early to talk about or guess until they reveal anything in the next few years haha!
with a demo arriving in 2-3 months it means everything.
Who knows if they hit 1080p/solid 30 fps for a demo, i'm expecting 900p/30fps with drops.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Not really. It's just a demo, not that big of a deal. And it's also been said to not run in the final version of the Luminous engine.
20% of a character's polycount is dedicated to hair.
Japan sure has a really strange fascination with hair.
I'm very happy about that. Too many games have great graphics, but bald people or bad hair.
I sure as hell don't, i expect open world games to be as close to a solid 30 though as they can. The game looks amazing and there was no way I was expecting it to be 60.
Good point.
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