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[TUSR]

Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing (FXAA) is an anti-aliasing algorithm created by Timothy Lottes under NVIDIA.

smart guy.

I literally just Googled this guy because I was looking at Durante's fix.

 

[ii Stryker]

What multiplats did you play?

Through most of this gen Xbox was lead platform. It wasn't until recently that devs started to switch over to PS3 as lead. If nextbox launches first and there's a significant gap before the PS4 launches I don't see the trend changing.

 

[BruiserBear]

No he isn't, and I'm pretty sure he hasn't developed any console games

So you've never heard how strict Microsoft is with API on the Xbox?

I've seen Digital Foundry comment on it before, and how developers are allowed more freedom on PS3 to code things how they want.

 

[El_Chino]

At least two very big leaps of logic with no support seem to be made:

-Next box might have pre-GCN GPU

-MS wont allow coding to the metal of any sort

- Durango will run a pc version windows

Things I would like to hear him explain why he thinks this. Wasn't there coding to the metal for the X360?

 

[onQ123]

Old thesixthaxis rumor says that PS4 will be native OpenGL so even better than LibGCM.

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2012/04/11/exclusive-ps4-orbis-rumoured-to-feature-native-opengl/

Seems like everyone in the industry has at least two. On each arm.

Our little birdy has been whispering into our shell-like recently, and seems to know a thing or two about the next generation PlayStation, widely rumoured to be – in terms of codename at least – called Orbis.

Our source gave us a knowing nod on that account, but also suggested something that developers might well be interested in: Orbis will support OpenGL natively.

“OpenGL is a layered API on the PS3,” our source told us. “It’s much easier to use than LibGCM, which is the main PS3 system.”

So, with the PS3, OpenGL is emulated on top of LibGCM. ”With Orbis, though,” our source added, again suggesting that the name is sticking, “OpenGL is native.”

Naturally, we need to stamp this one with a big fat RUMOUR sign. But it’s not a massive big sticker or anything, more a subtle little peelable one – like the ones you get on apples.

 

[meta4]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

Super funny. Please send this to Digital Foundry. I am sure they will realize all their mistakes.

 

[grimshawish]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

I love how a new gen brings out the 'fans'.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

Well it depends if it's PS3 vs PS3, or vs PC.

They are regarded as the best pound for pound in terms of technical at the moment. Let's judge whether they are as good as they are / overrated come the PS4.

 

[i-Lo]

This thread will go places...

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

... and Neogaf never fails to deliver.

a guy who doesnt know much.

seriously, his name kicks around tech circles from time to time and i noticed before like, what the hell is this guy thinking? (cant remember the topic).

i'm sure he's super smart at programming but seems to have no clue about bigger pictures.

if you read his article he's basically saying stupid things like next box is going to just be a dumb dx11 box, no coding to the metal, only going to be used for up-resed 360 ports, etc etc. complete fabrications and wishful thinking

seems very sony biased.

this is useless, only pay attention to these when programmers that are actually making games on both have an opinion, and even then, tread carefully.

he's also implying xbox gpu will be pre-gcn for example, when no rumors say that. he's completely making things up.

Never thought I would read this from you. *sigh*

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Here's the post i'm referring to btw. Maybe it should be added to the OP.

A fast GDDR5 will be the desired option for developers. All the interesting cases for good anti-aliasing require a large amount of bandwidth and RAM. A tiny 32MB chunk of ESRAM will not fit that need even for forward rendering at 1080p. I think some developers could hit 1080p@60fps with the rumored Orbis specs even with good AA. My personal project is targeting 1080p@60fps with great AA on a 560ti which is a little slower than the rumored Orbis specs. There is no way my engine would hit that target on the rumored 720 specs. Ultimately on Orbis I guess devs target 1080p/30fps (with some motion blur) and leverage the lower latency OS stack and scan out at 60fps (double scan frames) to provide a really great lower-latency experience. Maybe the same title on 720 would render at 720p/30fps, and maybe Microsoft is dedicating a few CPU hardware threads to the GPU driver stack to remove the latency problem (assuming this is a "Windows" OS under the covers).

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/20...d-durango.html

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

lmao, where do these people come up with these things???

 

[SparkTR]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

Of course if we compare it to PC games. But other consoles games? Nah.

 

[meta4]

I love how a new gen brings out the 'fans'.

Yup. The console war has started..

 

[sangreal]

So you've never heard how strict Microsoft is with API on the Xbox?

I've seen Digital Foundry comment on it before, and how developers are allowed more freedom on PS3 to code things how they want.

you might not be able to "code to the metal" but the api is still very low-level and not the same as directx on pc (from which he is deriving his complaints)

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

With all these rumors I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They are regarded as the best pound for pound in terms of technical at the moment. Let's judge whether they are as good as they are / overrated come the PS4.

There's no way that they're overrated when they come to tech. Every generation since the PSone they've been near or at the front of the pack. They were making open world 60fps platformers last gen.

 

[sangreal]

With all these rumors I don't know what to believe anymore.

? this is his analysis of existing rumors. there is no new rumor here

 

[B.O.O.M]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

Thread definitely delivered

NEW GEN IS HERE!

 

[Orayn]

Through most of this gen Xbox was lead platform. It wasn't until recently that devs started to switch over to PS3 as lead. If nextbox launches first and there's a significant gap before the PS4 launches I don't see the trend changing.

Oh, lead platform. Yeah, I agree with that. I thought you were saying that Xbox 360 was weighing down multiplatform games.

 

[grimshawish]

Here's the post i'm referring to btw.

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/20...d-durango.html

Might be this deserves its own thread. Seems significant and backs up a few murmerings.

I suppose it might be good if Xbox takes the US, 60 fps and 1080p ports ain't too shabby on any console.

Continue to think MS are positioning themselves into a really tricky position though. Feels like an all in order for the Xbox department to really start bringing the money other major MS departments are expected to bring in.

 

[sangreal]

Oh, lead platform. Yeah, I agree with that. I thought you were saying that Xbox 360 was weighing down multiplatform games.

that is what he is saying

 

[FlutterPuffs]

There's no way that they're overrated when they come to tech. Every generation since the PSone they've been near or at the front of the pack. They were making open world 60fps platformers last gen.

I'm just saying let's leave that argument come next gen when Naughty Dog vs Crytek will come and incinerate us in its wake.

My bet has always been on Naughty Dog. Some of the shit they pulled off this gen was nothing short of miraculous. And fuck Crytek for saying its game is 'better' on the PS3 on Xbox 360 technical wise. Just because you could emulate something that can't be done on this gen's GPU mean nothing if the game runs and looks like horseshit.

 

[UrbanRats]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

I guess you're not familiar with Naughty Dog games' threads on gaf.

 

[Orayn]

that is what he is saying

PS3 had its own set of bottlenecks, limitations, and issues. It wasn't just "the more powerful one" that got held back.

 

[meta4]

I'm just saying let's leave that argument come next gen when Naughty Dog vs Crytek will come and incinerate us in its wake.

My bet has always been on Naughty Dog. Some of the shit they pulled off this gen was nothing short of miraculous. And fuck Crytek for saying its game is 'better' on the PS3 on Xbox 360 technical wise. Just because you could emulate something that can't be done on this gen's GPU mean nothing if the game runs and looks like horseshit.

Yeah. That has been my number one beef with Crytek.

 

[ffdgh]

Hmm sounds interesting to say the least. It'll be fun seeing how things play out in the coming future.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

I'm just saying let's leave that argument come next gen when Naughty Dog vs Crytek will come and incinerate us in its wake.

My bet has always been on Naughty Dog. Some of the shit they pulled off this gen was nothing short of miraculous. And fuck Crytek for saying its game is 'better' on the PS3 on Xbox 360 technical wise. Just because you could emulate something that can't be done on this gen's GPU mean nothing if the game runs and looks like horseshit.

How do we know it runs like horseshit? Those comments were referencing Crysis 3 which still isn't out. It definitely doesnt look like horseshit, looks amazing.

Oh, lead platform. Yeah, I agree with that. I thought you were saying that Xbox 360 was weighing down multiplatform games.

They both weighed down eachother.

 

[nib95]

Yeah. That has been my number one beef with Crytek.

It is annoying that just because a dev can replicate some high end features or tick boxes on a console they think it's automatically technically better. Well it isn't. It still has to look and play great, which Crysis 2 on consoles doesn't. Que terrible frame rate, awful AF, poor AA, sub hd resolutions, texture pop in and all sorts.

 

[Reiko]

Something Something Crysis.

But even then that post you're responding to is hyperbole.

 

[ii Stryker]

that is what he is saying

PS3 had its own set of bottlenecks, limitations, and issues. It wasn't just "the more powerful one" that got held back.

IIRC there was a podcast with Christina Coffin an engineer and she was with DICE at the time and she stated that while the 360 was easier to code for the PS3 allowed engineers to do more and get more out of it because they could code to the metal whereas the DX API's don't give them that latitude.

Calling it a boat anchor though is just that douche trolling for hits.

 

[Reiko]

Things I would like to hear him explain why he thinks this. Wasn't there coding to the metal for the X360?

Yep.

As for the creator of FXAA, from what I'm reading he doesn't know much about the new consoles. He's about as informed as I am. Just going off rumors like everyone else in this thread.

Spoiler

Or he really knows something and is pulling our chains

 

[Withnail]

He's entitled to his opinion, and he knows his subject. Claims of bias are silly. As usual some posters would rather play the man, not the ball.


One interesting implication of what he's saying is Durango could receive hardware refreshes and remain forwards and backwards compatible. iOS style.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

As a massive fan of the 360,I really enjoyed the overall console more than the ps3. I will have no trouble dumping Microsoft and just getting the next Playstation if they honestly do let us down.

 

[Reiko]

Yeah. That has been my number one beef with Crytek.

Well Crysis 3 seems to be running smooth on consoles, so maybe they finally got their shit sorted out.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

How do we know it runs like horseshit? Those comments were referencing Crysis 3 which still isn't out. It definitely doesnt look like horseshit, looks amazing.

Fine then, let's hope Crysis 3 is as good as they say it is. Crysis 2 wasn't though even after they said this:

Speaking to gamesTM as part of a round table on the future of games, Yerl stated, "I think that there is not much more possible on the 360 and PS3 at this stage. We’re already using a lot of squeezing tricks and smoke and mirrors to get the maximum we can out of the hardware. We’re pushing the boundaries already. With CryEngine 3 I think going forward we’re going to require a new generation of console hardware"

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

IIRC there was a podcast with Christina Coffin an engineer and she was with DICE at the time and she stated that while the 360 was easier to code for the PS3 allowed engineers to do more and get more out of it because they could code to the metal whereas the DX API's don't give them that latitude.

Calling it a boat anchor though is just that douche trolling for hits.

He never called the 360 a boat anchor, he was saying that Durango could be based on the rumored specs.

 

[maverick40]

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

.

 

[meta4]

Well Crysis 3 seems to be running smooth on consoles, so maybe they finally got their shit sorted out.

Is there any console footage released yet? I hope you are right. It looks so freaking gorgeous on PC but I hope they remove whatever effects they can on consoles to ensure it runs smoothly.

 

[iamshadowlark]

a guy who doesnt know much.

seriously, his name kicks around tech circles from time to time and i noticed before like, what the hell is this guy thinking? (cant remember the topic).

i'm sure he's super smart at programming but seems to have no clue about bigger pictures.

if you read his article he's basically saying stupid things like next box is going to just be a dumb dx11 box, no coding to the metal, only going to be used for up-resed 360 ports, etc etc. complete fabrications and wishful thinking

seems very sony biased.

this is useless, only pay attention to these when programmers that are actually making games on both have an opinion, and even then, tread carefully.

he's also implying xbox gpu will be pre-gcn for example, when no rumors say that. he's completely making things up.

Omg are you fucking serious lol?

 

[Reiko]

Is there any console footage released yet? I hope you are right. It looks so freaking gorgeous on PC but I hope they remove whatever effects they can on consoles to endure it runs smoothly.

Right here. (Xbox 360 version)

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/01/23/ign-live-presents-crysis-3?abthid=510017ed02d45ac22f00007a

Very smooth. Motion blur is missing.

Don't know about the SP yet.

 

[DocSeuss]

Something Something Crysis.

But even then that post you're responding to is hyperbole.

I was actually thinking that Killzone 3 had topped Naughty Dog's efforts, as had Sony Santa Monica with God of War 3 (but this was post-Uncharted 2, not Uncharted 3). When it comes to multiplatform, then we start thinking about guys like 4A, DICE, and so on. I was also under the impression some of the shit Remedy used in Alan Wake (lighting, draw distance, giant maps, etc) just flat-out wasn't possible on the PS3.

But yeah, Crytek's work on Crysis 3 looks to blow people away.

I dunno. My knowledge in the field is somewhat limited, and to hear people suggest that a game that basically just runs down really narrow corridors with impossibly short draw distances is genuinely surprising to me. I've heard a lot of incorrect shit spouted over the years (like how the water in Uncharted 3's ship level is supposedly dynamic, when in truth it's pre-baked) about how amazing they are, and I've looked into things that they, as well as people like Digital Foundry, have said.

I'm far from convinced that Naughty Dog has cranked out the best graphics out there.

Their art design is amazing, though. There are times when I wonder if anyone is actually on par with them.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

He works for nvidia. There is a nvidia chip in the PS3. So...

Spoiler

Just kidding lol

Naughty Dog's games look ahead of other peoples' games graphically? What?

Artistically, sure, but from a graphical perspective, plenty of people don't just outdo them, but pound them into the dirt.

On consoles?

 

[Dawg]

a guy who doesnt know much.

seriously, his name kicks around tech circles from time to time and i noticed before like, what the hell is this guy thinking? (cant remember the topic).

i'm sure he's super smart at programming but seems to have no clue about bigger pictures.

if you read his article he's basically saying stupid things like next box is going to just be a dumb dx11 box, no coding to the metal, only going to be used for up-resed 360 ports, etc etc. complete fabrications and wishful thinking

seems very sony biased.

this is useless, only pay attention to these when programmers that are actually making games on both have an opinion, and even then, tread carefully.

he's also implying xbox gpu will be pre-gcn for example, when no rumors say that. he's completely making things up.

 

[GhostTrick]

a guy who doesnt know much.

seriously, his name kicks around tech circles from time to time and i noticed before like, what the hell is this guy thinking? (cant remember the topic).

i'm sure he's super smart at programming but seems to have no clue about bigger pictures.

if you read his article he's basically saying stupid things like next box is going to just be a dumb dx11 box, no coding to the metal, only going to be used for up-resed 360 ports, etc etc. complete fabrications and wishful thinking

seems very sony biased.

this is useless, only pay attention to these when programmers that are actually making games on both have an opinion, and even then, tread carefully.

he's also implying xbox gpu will be pre-gcn for example, when no rumors say that. he's completely making things up.

Because it's clear you know much more than he does... Or you're just being biased ?

 

[Clay Davis]

Something tells me that the big picture for Microsoft aligns well with: (a.) not making a custom OS, it is high cost, (b.) cheaper hardware, don't sell at a loss, (c.) selling a DVR, going after more than just gamers, (d.) focus on the more casual, larger player base, (e.) refresh hardware often, get people to purchase more often, (f.) build a "PC", easier to port games from. Which aligns with my predictions.

seems legit. I trust him.

 

[grimshawish]

Omg are you fucking serious lol?

Special has been a slow rolling meltdown for a few days now. Am not sure why as it seems to be over next to nothing.

 

[kuroshiki]

a guy who doesnt know much.

seriously, his name kicks around tech circles from time to time and i noticed before like, what the hell is this guy thinking? (cant remember the topic).

i'm sure he's super smart at programming but seems to have no clue about bigger pictures.

if you read his article he's basically saying stupid things like next box is going to just be a dumb dx11 box, no coding to the metal, only going to be used for up-resed 360 ports, etc etc. complete fabrications and wishful thinking

seems very sony biased.

this is useless, only pay attention to these when programmers that are actually making games on both have an opinion, and even then, tread carefully.

he's also implying xbox gpu will be pre-gcn for example, when no rumors say that. he's completely making things up.

He's plenty smart. Actually he's probably smarter than you, me, and rest of neoGAF members combined.

 

[Krilekk]

No but it adds to the debate between significant more memory vs less memory but much faster. This guy has a lot more technical know how then the average person on gaf. If he says 4GB DDR5> 8 DDR3/4, it adds more weight to that argument.

I'm pretty sure MS builds 720 after what developers want - just like they did with 360. And then add what they want to dominate the living room on top (Kinect, Win 8), not the other way around. They won't risk everything they build with 360 and create another Xbox 1 fiasco.

 

[Reiko]

Special has been a slow rolling meltdown for a few days now. Am not sure why as it seems to be over next to nothing.

The pendulum swings both ways. When the PS4 was rumored to have 2GB I remember seeing many posts about Sony is doomed.

All of these threads will be hilarious upon final reveal of the real specs.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I'm pretty sure MS builds 720 after what developers want - just like they did with 360. And then add what they want to dominate the living room on top (Kinect, Win 8), not the other way around. They won't risk everything they build with 360 and create another Xbox 1 fiasco.

When I look at some of their other products lately I'm not so sure about that. For example they don't hesitate forcing their new UI on Windows 8 users, hoping that people would build apps for it and Windows Phone. To me it just seems like they want to use their existing market share as a trojan horse to expand, and it seems they don't care much about pissing off their existing clients.

Maybe they did really listen to developers. But did they listen enough? Epic wanted at least 1 TFLOPS for UE4. MS gave them 1.25 TFLOPS. Crytek wanted 8 GB of RAM. MS gave them 8 GB of slow DDR3 RAM, and 2-3 GB are reserved for OS,apps with, maybe less in the future. It does seem like they just did the minimum of what they were asked for... Will be interesting if those rumors are all true and what will happen.

 

[deanos]

oh boy, looks like specialguy (aka Rangers on B3D) is having some serious meltdowns.