Support NeoGAF

[Exploratory]

Might want to look up the definition of the word "mob". Because I'd be hard-pressed to disagree with that description of the crowd who followed Hello Games around.

That's a very dangerous road to go down. So because some very bad apples attacked Hello Games in way that was over the line everyone else's very legitimate criticisms are ignored? Everyone else gets thrown in with the "mob"? No thanks I don't adhere to that type of thinking if there's anything I've learned in 2016 it's that you can't do that because even if it's true it kills discourse.

 

[More_Badass]

Intent doesn't even matter at that point. The writer absolves Hello Games of anything they do and lambasts those who criticize them with moniker "mob". How is that not inflammatory in itself?

Well, 1) No, the writer didnt. "A portion of a fanbase" isn't "everyone who criticizes", and yes, I'd say a mob is a reasonable word for how some people acted.
And 2) Inflammatory for who? The gaming audience that Gamasutra doesnt write for? You realize this is a site that caters towards developers and business, not the general audience
3) Inflammatory implies that it was written with the intent to anger and get a rise out of an audience. Honestly, if that's how you see that wording in the context of article and site, I think that says more about the reader than the writer

That's a very dangerous road to go down. So because some very bad apples attacked Hello Games in way that was over the line everyone else's very legitimate criticisms are ignored? Everyone else gets thrown in with the "mob"? No thanks I don't adhere to that type of thinking if there's anything I've learned in 2016 it's that you can't do that because even if it's true it kills discourse.

You're making some broad implications that arent even suggested at all by that sentence

 

[Voras]

Being a basic simple barely-there game doesn't somehow change the fact it had more of a real-world impact than pretty much any other game in the last decade. And trust me, I had such little interest in it that I didnt even download it or go to the App Store page

So yeah, Pokemom Go had its "mark on this year in a meaningful way" and pushed "creative, commercial, and cultural boundaries", regardless of how good or bad the gameplay was

I mean that is really ignoring the fact that Pokemon was a global phenomenon long before Ninatic even existed. The gps and map data stuff Niantic did would have been novel if they hadn't essentially already made the same game already with Ingress which wasn't nearly as popular. A Pokemon game that was free and available on phones was the main draw there which had little to do with Niantic, they just happened to be the company Nintendo chose to work with. It was certainly a solid mashup that ultimately lost its user base pretty quickly because it didn't have good hooks to keep people in and it has a lot of design missteps that push players away. If you need evidence that the Pokemon is what created the phenomenon just look at Twitch Plays Pokemon from a few years ago. The Pokemon brand is huge. Just about every time the brand is used somewhere new it's an instant success.

The point is recognizing developers for pushing boundaries, not for making the safest bet ever.

 

[Remembrance]

Props to IO. The episodic model did wonders for Hitman.

Who knows if another developer will try this structure.

They're going to make the mistake of trying to break up more story-heavy linear games, just now in action genres. The fact that nobody is playing Hitman for the story will be completely overlooked.

The best thing we can hope for is that somebody tries to copy the idea of making episodic content based on heavy replayability, not based on teasing the next chapter of a background story everyone will forget between episodes.

 

[Heckler456]

That's a very dangerous road to go down. So because some very bad apples attacked Hello Games in way that was over the line everyone else's very legitimate criticisms are ignored? Everyone else gets thrown in with the "mob"? No thanks I don't adhere to that type of thinking if there's anything I've learned in 2016 it's that you can't do that because even if it's true it kills discourse.

No matter what you think Hello Games did, they really don't deserve to be compared to Bernie Madoff, or any of the other vile shit that was and still is thrown at them to this day, all for failing to deliver on some very limited aspects of their game that people thought were coming. What you're doing right now is victim-blaming.

The "very legitimate criticism" also wasn't ignored, so I'm not sure what exactly it is that you're talking about. The complaints about the lack of multiplayer have been shouted in people's ears since day one, with youtube videos that have views that number in the hundreds of thousand, a steam score far in the red, and a constant stream of complaining wherever and whenever the topic of "Hello Games" or "No Man's Sky" was brought up. Plus, the advertising aspect of the complaints have been examined by an official watchdog group, and have been found wanting.

So, really, why shouldn't people be able to call the group hounding Hello Games for what they are? Who here REALLY has the smallest voice in this regard? The hundreds or thousands of people comprising the group of dissenters? Or the Hello Games development team?

 

[sense]

Can't take a list of best developers for 2016 without naughty dog seriously. Sorry!

 

[Heckler456]

Can't take a list of best developers for 2016 without naughty dog seriously. Sorry!

I'm as big of a fan of Naughty Dog as anyone here, but I don't really think they had a very large impact on the industry or the community this particular year.

 

[AppleMIX]

How is Firaxis not on there?

They released Xcom 2 and Civ 6 in the same year.

 

[Dalibor68]

A mob attacking Hello Games shouldn't absolve them in any way from criticism about their crap product or shady silence. Including them in a "TOP 10" list is ridiculous and frankly an insult to the many other, much much more deserving studios.

 

[breakfuss]

Fucking Hello Games LOL. Yea, a case study on how to rob countless customers blind.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

A surprisingly good & varied list.

 

[Dabi]

Smh... we're really taking Naughty Dog for granted.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I mean, I realise this is list is about those who made an impact on the industry in a meaningful way, and in that sense Hello Games have certainly opened a lot of people's eyes with their deception, but I still think including them but ignoring studios like Playdead, Insomniac, Playground or Naughty Dog just seems wrong.

 

[Iva Demilcol]

Ouch... the arguments for including Hello Games in that list are kind of weak if you ask me.

 

[Messofanego]

Fair points - but why id then?

To do justice to a genre-defining game while still offering a new experience. Doom as a game still stands out in this current market, and that can't be easy.

 

[Messofanego]

Lord give me strength to not type what I want to type right now..

So this is what it feels like to be triggered? lol

Ok ok, taking a deep breath 😔 ......better now

This is their list, which obviously makes it there own opinion so they can have whatever they want. But as a naughty dog fan I respectfully disagree with Gamasutra not seeing ND worthy enough to be on there list and that goes for any top developer list by websites in general, But it is what it is. Onto the next topic.

Yes, deep breaths, Naughty Dog fans. Take a step back like this sometimes. Don't have to jump down everyone's throat for not including them on some top list or try to get some critic's review of an Uncharted game removed from Metacritic. More Naughty Dog fans should act like this. But sadly they act more like this:

Can't take a list of best developers for 2016 without naughty dog seriously. Sorry!

I mean, I realise this is list is about those who made an impact on the industry in a meaningful way, and in that sense Hello Games have certainly opened a lot of people's eyes with their deception, but I still think including them but ignoring studios like Playdead, Insomniac, Playground or Naughty Dog just seems wrong.

"Just seems wrong". The hyperbole with some, jeez.

Y'all just itching for a fight, no matter about what.

 

[PhantomVash808]

This lists has to be a joke right.

 

[dracula_x]

Fucking Hello Games LOL. Yea, a case study on how to rob countless customers blind.

are you sure?

rob (verb)
take property unlawfully from (a person or place) by force or threat of force.

 

[Axass]

If we're discounting uniqueness (so not FromSoft, ND, Insomniac), even then there are still a handful of developers that I'd put on here over developers like Niantic or Hello Games, like Heart Machine (HLD), Playdead (Inside), Dodge Roll (Enter the Gungeon), Giant Squid (Abzu), and ESPECIALLY Thekla/Jonathan Blow, for The Witness.

Why is everybody forgetting The Witness??? WHY?

It's driving me mad.

 

[spineduke]

I'm actually curious how other developers feel about hello games inclusion on this list. Is ambition enough to get on a list, or should there be something to show for it? I don't see how sticking around to up the mess they created makes them worthy of being on a top developers list.

Hello games got noticed and brought a lot of conversation, but most of it was centered on the big dissonance between what they presented, and what it actually was. I would say their biggest accomplishment was highlighting the need for devs to have honest and clear communication with their target audience. Congrats, I guess.

Edit: seems like other devs have voiced similar points. Can't imagine how they must feel.

 

[oSoLucky]

The irony is that it's normally the "mob" trying to shut down discussion yet they're the ones throwing that phrase around most often.

 

[spineduke]

Cdprojekt would be a good nominee for this list, not because of the Witcher 3 but rather their progressive consumer stances towards not including DRM in their products.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

The only studio really missing here is Firaxis. They released two killer games in 2016, I feel like that should be worth recognition. Then again Firaxis kinda always get's overlooked.

 

[Joey Ravn]

I feel that Gamasutra is twisting the narrative with regards to Hello Games. Yeah, a portion of the "fan"base went too far. Sure. But presenting Hello Games as the success story of the underdog dev that, against all odds, managed to find lightning in a bottle... come on.

But Hello Games took that concept and created an experience that will be remembered as an inflection point for procedural generation, showing how the technique can be used to create countless visually emotive, living worlds and inhabitants.

I just don't see that in No Man's Sky.

 

[Sad Affleck]

The inclusion of Hello Games and the justification for it is frankly embarrassing for the author of the article and for the site in general.

 

[Heckler456]

I feel that Gamasutra is twisting the narrative with regards to Hello Games. Yeah, a portion of the "fan"base went too far. Sure. But presenting Hello Games as the success story of the underdog dev that, against all odds, managed to find lightning in a bottle... come on.

This is what's wrong with the discourse surrounding this studio: Even the more reasonable comments can't help but twist and turn the words in favor of Hello Games. I'm not just talking about you here, but I'm using your comment to make my point.

Where does it say any of the things you claimed the article wrote about Hello Games as a studio?

They're saying their implementation of procedural generation is an "inflection point" for the technology, which by all accounts it is. In regards to them being an "underdog", all they're saying is that their recent efforts have "maybe begun to turn their difficult situation around" and "nudge the conversation into a more positive place", which is nowhere close to your claim that they're saying "it's a success story of the underdog dev that managed to find lightning in a bottle".

Where exactly are they "twisting the narrative"? Are the people (in this very thread even) who hyperbolise the situation, or who actively harass the developers not real? Are you saying that they're not still working on their game, even when the conversation surrounding the game must have been incredibly toxic to deal with on their end, no matter the validity?

Or are you saying we shouldn't give a voice to that side of the story just in case people didn't hear the horrific squeal of the constant complaining surrounding Hello Games?

It's like anything positive about Hello Games needs to be absolutely and utterly squashed out of existence just to combat the case where people might be misconstruing it as evidence that they are in fact just people who maybe made a mistake instead of the horrible Bernie Maddoff-esque monsters that people routinely make them out to be.

 

[spineduke]

Ouch... the arguments for including Hello Games in that list are kind of weak if you ask me.

By that logic we can similarly praise 22cans and their persistent work on the ambitious Godus title, headed by none other than the Molyneux visionary, despite all the "mob hate" against them.

It's like anything positive about Hello Games needs to be absolutely and utterly squashed out of existence just to combat the case where people might be misconstruing it as evidence that they are in fact just people who maybe made a mistake instead of the horrible Bernie Maddoff-esque monsters that people routinely make them out to be.

There's being positive, and there's making them top developer of the year. Some perspective please. Nobody here has called them monsters so let's avoid the hyperbole please.

 

[cheesekao]

To do justice to a genre-defining game while still offering a new experience. Doom as a game still stands out in this current market, and that can't be easy.

Not to discredit Doom but we have three balls to the walls shooters this year though and all three of them(Doom included) were highly praised for their gameplay.

 

[Heckler456]

There's being positive, and there's making them top developer of the year. Some perspective please. Nobody here has called them monsters so let's avoid the hyperbole please.

I can link you to an exact comment of someone comparing them to Bernie Madoff, in this very thread.

And your comment is another example of what I was talking about. Their definition of "top developer" includes "having left their mark on this year in a meaningful way, shaping the year in the art and business of making games", which by all accounts, Hello Games surely have.

 

[Surface of Me]

I can link you to an exact comment of someone comparing them to Bernie Madoff, in this very thread.

And your comment is another example of what I was talking about. Their definition of "top developer" includes "having left their mark on this year in a meaningful way, shaping the year in the art and business of making games", which by all accounts, Hello Games surely have.

That's like saying BvS left its mark on film cause it was a bad fucking movie. Hello Games deserves zero praise. Full stop. They flat out lied what their game was going to be to consumers.

 

[Renekton]

The only studio really missing here is Firaxis. They released two killer games in 2016, I feel like that should be worth recognition. Then again Firaxis kinda always get's overlooked.

How is Firaxis not on there?

They released Xcom 2 and Civ 6 in the same year.

Probably Gamasutra felt they did not really challenge or stretch themselves enough with sequels within comfort zone, although they are really good games.

Contrast that with the venerable Id Software which has been struggling to reinvent for the modern age for a good decade including a scrapped Call of Doom and loss of founder.

 

[spineduke]

And your comment is another example of what I was talking about. Their definition of "top developer" includes "having left their mark on this year in a meaningful way, shaping the year in the art and business of making games", which by all accounts, Hello Games surely have.

If that's all you can argue with, let's leave it at there.

 

[muetimueti]

I feel that Gamasutra is twisting the narrative with regards to Hello Games. Yeah, a portion of the "fan"base went too far. Sure. But presenting Hello Games as the success story of the underdog dev that, against all odds, managed to find lightning in a bottle... come on.



I just don't see that in No Man's Sky.

What I took away from their reasoning is that it seems that they kind of liked the game? No idea why anybody would, but that would at least kind of start to explain their inclusion. But even then it's exactly as you say, they put themselves in a terrible spot by fucking up everything they could from PR to the actual game and somehow deserve a spot on a list of top developers for releasing one update for said terrible game?
This reads to me like they felt sorry for them after all the abuse they got (which was obviously shitty), but giving them recognition out of pity is a very stupid thing to do. Twisting the narrative is a good way of putting it.

 

[Servbot24]

It seems odds to award Hello Games for "persevering" in a year where The Witness, Final Fantasy XV and The Last Guardian all finally released, and all to positive reviews.

 

[Heckler456]

That's like saying BvS left its mark on film cause it was a bad fucking movie. Hello Games deserves zero praise. Full stop. They flat out lied what their game was going to be to consumers.

Jesus christ, stop deluding yourselves. Hello Games still put in years of their lives and probably tons of their own capital into making this game, and at WORST you can say that they were misleading and vague about a feature of their game that was never touted as being a major part. And if people are going to keep accusing them of "lying to consumers", then maybe they should file another complaint with any of the myriad of watchdog groups out there, and see what comes of it. Because it sure is weird that the last one came out in their favor given the fervor with which this accusation keeps being thrown around. And besides, there are plenty of people here on this website and outside of it still enjoying the game.

Zero praise would be a tenable argument if what they brought out was actual irredeemable garbage when judging it by its own merits, which it isn't.

That being said though, all of this is useless, because your comparison is useless. You're comparing the ranking of the end product to the ranking of the people making the products.

 

[Eolz]

It seems odds to award Hello Games for "persevering" in a year where The Witness, Final Fantasy XV and The Last Guardian all finally released, and all to positive reviews.

They weren't rewarded for the same thing. The devs behind TLG and Owlboy got in the list for that though.

 

[Zocano]

I guess this thread is another good example of people failing basic reading comprehension.

Gamasutra had a specific criteria for this list and that's what they stuck to. People see "top"and just equate it with best even when the reasoning is made plain.

Like it or not, Hello Games had a meaningful impact on the games industry. And for those that have trouble with words, meaningful doesn't immediately mean "good". They are definitely a cautionary tale now of how to market your game, especially given how far reaching the game was to audiences relative to the team size.

 

[Alebrije]

No ND but Hello Games ???..

 

[JohnCYQ]

Jesus christ, stop deluding yourselves. Hello Games still put in years of their lives and probably tons of their own capital into making this game, and at WORST you can say that they were misleading and vague about a feature of their game that was never touted as being a major part. And if people are going to keep accusing them of "lying to consumers", then maybe they should file another complaint with any of the myriad of watchdog groups out there, and see what comes of it. Because it sure is weird that the last one came out in their favor given the fervor with which this accusation keeps being thrown around. And besides, there are plenty of people here on this website and outside of it still enjoying the game.

Unlike pretty much every other indie developer out there? I mean, I'm not sure why this is being brought up as a talking point. So why aren't other indie/smaller studios with actually good releases that manages to not just do the same old be in the list over HG? Surely Stardew Valley/Concerned Ape can't be the only one.

And besides, there are plenty of people here on this website and outside of it still enjoying the game.

Last I checked, a similarly controversial game released this year called Mighty Number 9 still has 60% overall positive reviews on steam, so the same could be said for them. Why not include Comcept in the list then? I'm sure the developers on the team spent all their efforts and hardwork in those 3 years of development, the majority of steam users still enjoy it, AND they tried to change up the formula by including the whole dash-absorb system instead of straight out copy-pasting the megaman formula, so they deserve a spot for top 10 developer of the year as well, right?

...Right?

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Why is everybody forgetting The Witness??? WHY?

It's driving me mad.

Already appeared in some GotY lists, thankfully. Didn't Time pick it as their GotY?

 

[spineduke]

I guess this thread is another good example of people failing basic reading comprehension.

Gamasutra had a specific criteria for this list and that's what they stuck to. People see "top"and just equate it with best even when the reasoning is made plain.

Like it or not, Hello Games had a meaningful impact on the games industry. And for those that have trouble with words, meaningful doesn't immediately mean "good". They are definitely a cautionary tale now of how to market your game, especially given how far reaching the game was to audiences relative to the team size.

This reads like you haven't read the article, especially the paragraph on Hello Games. No such justification is made on Gamasutras part.

I would tentatively agree with what you're suggesting, but I still would contest the use of "Top". When all the other 9 entries are shining and positive, you have to question the message of the article by including HG here.

 

[-Setsuna-]

Seems like nobody cares about Intelligent Systems... :/

 

[Exploratory]

No matter what you think Hello Games did, they really don't deserve to be compared to Bernie Madoff, or any of the other vile shit that was and still is thrown at them to this day, all for failing to deliver on some very limited aspects of their game that people thought were coming. What you're doing right now is victim-blaming.

The "very legitimate criticism" also wasn't ignored, so I'm not sure what exactly it is that you're talking about. The complaints about the lack of multiplayer have been shouted in people's ears since day one, with youtube videos that have views that number in the hundreds of thousand, a steam score far in the red, and a constant stream of complaining wherever and whenever the topic of "Hello Games" or "No Man's Sky" was brought up. Plus, the advertising aspect of the complaints have been examined by an official watchdog group, and have been found wanting.

So, really, why shouldn't people be able to call the group hounding Hello Games for what they are? Who here REALLY has the smallest voice in this regard? The hundreds or thousands of people comprising the group of dissenters? Or the Hello Games development team?

Your mentality makes a discussion impossible because you think Hello Games is a victim. I would say the people who spent their money on the game only to be taken for a ride by Sean Murray and company are the victims.

And you're right that the criticism wasn't ignored but every time Hello Games comes in a GAF thread theres a group that consistently supports them or acts like they were somehow wrongly persecuted. If you want to play their games because them lying doesn't bother you that's fine but acknowledge that. Don't try to turn it around and act like they're somehow in the right because many internet dwellers took it too far. The sad reality is there is always going to be the people on the internet who attack someone or threaten someone and take things too far. Those people should are rightfully called out for being generally terrible people but they don't turn Hello Games into a victim.

 

[Messofanego]

Not to discredit Doom but we have three balls to the walls shooters this year though and all three of them(Doom included) were highly praised for their gameplay.

I think the development history from RAGE, to the failed Doom 4, and then to Doom 2016 might be playing into their place on the list cause id went through a lot and still delivered in spades.

Danny O'Dwyer's Noclip documentary on DOOM 2016 covers this in detail:

DOOM Resurrected - To Hell & Back (DOOM Documentary)

 

[Kintaro]

Well, one really can't argue with the fact that Hello Games did have an impact on the industry with No Man's Sky. It wasn't a good sales impact (it definitely, absolutely put people off pre-ordering all except for the safest of bets [Pokemon] for the rest of the year), but it definitely was one (procedural generation was brought to the forefront).

 

[jennetics]

I didn't realize Pokemon Go was still a thing. I stopped playing it after about 3 months or so and I felt like the whole thing kinda faded away but I guess tons of people are still playing? That's pretty cool.

 

[spineduke]

but it definitely was one (procedural generation was brought to the forefront).

Uh, Minecraft?

 

[Wagram]

Whether or not you like Witcher 3 combat you can't discredit what CDPR did for fans with the Witcher 3 expansion pass. They made two large pieces of content that amount to around 75 hours for the price of $25. I don't understand how they didn't make this list.

 

[jett]

Whether or not you like Witcher 3 combat you can't discredit what CDPR did for fans with the Witcher 3 expansion pass. They made two large pieces of content that amount to around 75 hours for the price of $25. I don't understand how they didn't make this list.

Congratulating and sympathizing with Hello Games on not disappearing after scamming their userbase is much more important.

 

[Dredd97]

Congratulating and sympathizing with Hello Games on not disappearing after scamming their userbase is much more important.

In what way did they 'scam' their userbase??

a scam would imply they developed a product designed to take your money and run...

yeah, perhaps look up the word scam before posting it in such an inflammatory way next time...