Ben Parfitt ‏@BenParfitt - Editor of MCVuk.com
This is getting utterly fucking ridiculous now
Both are a out speaking the truth. Integrity. Someone lieing to benefit from it has no integrity. Someone making truthful (easily backed up with evidence) observations and the cencoring them ar the first sign of trouble has no integrity either. If you lie or omit the truth for any reason, you cn't possibly stand on any higher ground that the other.
I'm not going to get too deeply involved in this thread as I personally know many of those involved, but...
RE: The Lauren/Tomb Raider thing - that I didn't like. Rab has every right to call people out on the PS3 thing, it was questionable and dodgy. Feel free to get out your pitchforks and hunt to your hearts' content - I would never have entered that competition personally, and that's a personal decision and my personal stance on it. Others differ. Fair enough, each to their own. Also feel free to question Lauren supporting the people and saying she saw no problem. Fine. Whatever. That stuff is morally questionable and Rab/EG had and have every right to call it out.
However - the doubting/questioning Lauren simply because she likes Tomb Raider is really rather distressing. Are journalists not allowed to be excited for games any more? Lauren has been someone who bounced with excitement for Tomb Raider forever. Since before she was in the job professionally, when she was just doing it for fun on her blog and whatever. If all our journalists are meant to not be fans of games or excited for them, it leaves us in a pretty fucking sad place.
The rest of this story can be debated to the ends of the earth as far as I'm concerned, but the simple idea that somebody is in a company's pocket because they excitedly tweet about a game in a natural manner (IE without a shitty promoted hash tag as part of a competition, or in a tweet that reads like an ad) is just insanity. If other reasons arise to suggest they might be - working for them, taking loads of freebies, whatever - then feel free to ask that question. If you want to scrutinize the rest of her work and her past to try to make a deeper connection, then do. If you find something, then it's justified. If somebody puts a video up of themselves singing and dancing around with the game box, again, feel free to ask that question - as that shows questionable judgement as well just looking plain dodgy.
But what kind of world do we live in where somebody can't simply be excited?
it's not about being excited. you're misrepresenting him.
it's about how not being ethical with regard to the ps3 stuff makes you suspicious of everything else they do - as being a journalist requires the readers to trust what you are saying is honest opinion.
if she was excited about tomb raider without the ps3 comment or any other impropriety issues it wouldn't be a problem.
Respectfully, I think you're too close to this and, as a result, you're missing the point. John Walker has articulated it better than I could:
Has freelanced for Square Enix, articles by her about Tomb Raider have been posted and look like nothing more PR / advertising for the game.
I believe taking the point of view that she is simply excited in the face of the evidence is naive as hell.
Real journalists with integrity don't put up with that shit from corporations
Who called her out for liking Tomb Raider? That wasn't the point of the original "Table of Doritos" article at all.However - the doubting/questioning Lauren simply because she likes Tomb Raider is really rather distressing. Are journalists not allowed to be excited for games any more? Lauren has been someone who bounced with excitement for Tomb Raider forever. Since before she was in the job professionally, when she was just doing it for fun on her blog and whatever. If all our journalists are meant to not be fans of games or excited for them, it leaves us in a pretty fucking sad place.
It's telling, considering accusations that she's just a straw for siphoning talking points from PR.Have to say Mr Walker hits on one of the things I find most bizarre about the entire incident. Your a journalist, your job is to write, why didnt Ms Wainright simply write a response to Mr Florence's article? If she had she could have garnered some respect and at least the appearance of professionalism. As it is she not only makes herself look guilty, she makes herself look like something of an idiot as well
If you want quality journalism free of bias and salesmanship... you're going to have to pay someone... someone that deserves to be paid well because if they're to do a good job, they'll need intelligence and integrity and experience.
Question is... if your advertisers are also the target of your content... and been critical of the content sours the relationship with your advertisers...
Where are you going to get your money from?
Are people willing to pay $30 for a magazine or a month's worth of game-journalism, at the volumes required to make this a worthwhile endeavour?
The simple blunt truth of the matter is that the economics of the industry unfortunately don't really allow for much in the way of integrity.
If you want to know the downlow monkey town, peruse GAF. We're always happy to set a fire under the industry's ass. There's some gold here, if you can wade through all the nuggets of shit that float by.
Who called her out for liking Tomb Raider? That wasn't the point of the original "Table of Doritos" article at all.
This might have been covered in the last two pages already, but I've seen it a lot in the thread so far.So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?
I would quit if my job is providing information and I am told to remove information cause someone is butthurt.
Here are her Square Enix related articles.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fun/gaming/4375406/Gamings-killer-double-act.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fun/gaming/4354817/Let-sleeping-dogs-lie.html
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2011/11/04/the-redemption-of-lara-croft
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fun/gaming/3769932/Lab-rat-revolution.html
http://www.vg247.com/2011/02/07/cloud-nine-mitsunori-takahashi-on-dissidia-012/
http://www.vg247.com/2011/02/02/the...bata-i-dont-believe-survival-horror-is-dying/
http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/17/interview-tactics-ogre-director-hiroshi-minagawa/
http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/11/interview-lord-of-arcana-producer-takamasa-shiba/
Gaming Journalism: With a Vengeance.
The rest of this story can be debated to the ends of the earth as far as I'm concerned, but the simple idea that somebody is in a company's pocket because they excitedly tweet about a game in a natural manner (IE without a shitty promoted hash tag as part of a competition, or in a tweet that reads like an ad) is just insanity.
But what kind of world do we live in where somebody can't simply be excited?
The problem is too many people on the internet would rather post a gif to get a cheap lol instead of taking the time to form an actual opinion. It works once, then quickly becomes lazy shorthand for discussion. Things just aren't that black and white, as convenient as it might be.The picture sums up game journalism in one nice picture. They are tools to sell us things.
Let me categorically state that Lauren Wainwright certainly doesnt have her Twitter page emblazoned in images from the forthcoming Tomb Raider game for any reason that could be understood to be corrupt. Yes, she vociferously defended a journalists right to promote a game for personal gain in supporting the PS3 competition on that Twitter page, and yes, if you were the sort of person who wanted to get threatened, you might mistakenly conflate the two. However, Wainwright states that she is simply a massive fan of this unreleased game, and with what I believe to be naive enthusiasm, hasnt thought through the negative implications of making her Twitter page look like its sponsored. It isnt. Even though Wainwright publicly lists Square Enix (screencap for when that inevitably gets edited out) as one of her current employers. However, dont point out that possible confu
Oh I dont thing so HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNGwhy didnt Ms Wainright simply write a response to Mr Florence's article?
I wonder if a lot of this suspicion could be somewhat alleviated if along with any review of a particular game there was a breakdown of whatever shit the Publisher sent them along with the review disc
So if say the reviewer was flown out to a foreign and was asked to review the game under controlled conditions like GTA IV I think it was then there would be disclosure of this somewhere in the article.
However - the doubting/questioning Lauren simply because she likes Tomb Raider is really rather distressing. Are journalists not allowed to be excited for games any more? Lauren has been someone who bounced with excitement for Tomb Raider forever. Since before she was in the job professionally, when she was just doing it for fun on her blog and whatever. If all our journalists are meant to not be fans of games or excited for them, it leaves us in a pretty fucking sad place.
Have to say Mr Walker hits on one of the things I find most bizarre about the entire incident. You're a journalist, your job is to write, why didnt Ms Wainright simply write a response to Mr Florence's article? If she had she could have garnered some respect and at least the appearance of professionalism. As it is she not only makes herself look guilty, she makes herself look like something of an idiot as well
News International could very easily have bankrupted Eurogamer just by dragging out the libel case.
Libel cases in the UK are very serious and can be very expensive and I wouldn't put it past the company to drag out the claim just long enough to sink Eurogamer
Had never heard of this lauren wainwright character. Overnight internet sensation much? From nobody to poster-child for all that's wrong with games "journalism."
HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG
Either EG have removed the comments, my browser's being shit, I've been banned, or their site is getting hammered.
Can't decide which.
If there's anything better than internet drama, it's internet videogame journalism drama HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG!!!
The major problem this situation creates comes with how anyone writing for Eurogamer from this moment on is going to feel - that under any threat of libel, Eurogamer will cave and edit their articles.
It's going to create a chilling effect whereby any Eurogamer writer will now self-edit to avoid saying anything that could even remotely be construed as libelous, even when it can clearly be argued not to be.
As for this other controversy. I think the article calling people out is a little low. Just do it in generalities or subliminals. No way calling people out by name song giving then the rundown was going to end well.
You can't write a response when you just got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Yeah I guess if you're going to go there then go all the way rather than singling out.I don't think that there was anything wrong with calling people out by name if he feels that they're doing something questionable. The problem with what he did is that he later mentioned that he has a list of people that he has a mental list of journalists that he feels are shady, but he refused to list them.
In cases like this, or any case related to someone suing, wouldn't it be entirely logical and reasonable to make the plaintiff pay for all the defendants bills related to the court (Lawyer, whatever else.), and if any research is needed, the courts would make the plaintiff pay (Through the courts.) for an anonymous company hired by the courts.
Something along those lines would prevent careless, rich and/or moneygrabbing psychopaths from suing over minor stuff. I mean, it's absurd that anyone can take ANYONE to the courts.
Ie a case like someone suing a company over what a journalist said would require the plaintiff to pay every single penny, including covering salaries if a court meeting is held during work hours.
Michael French ‏@Michael_French
You're a bad guy now if you defend your team. Video games!
The editor of MCV...
You can't write a response when you just got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
Aye Fat Rab, you'll always have my support, matey.
TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM!!!
Gonna say something slightly inflammatory because I actually feel really discouraged about all this.I agree, and it's very unfortunate.
There are no winners in this. Rab has lost a commission, Eurogamer's staff have lost the security of freedom of speech, and Lauren Wainwright has wholesale fucked her credibility as a journalist.
I'm only vaguely aware of who Jim Sterling is, so maybe it's only me who had no previous knowledge of Miss HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG.Hardly a nobody I'd say. She was on a popular podcast with Jim Sterling for a while, it's where I knew her from.
Dang, she actually has her own page/blog thing.http://www.laurenwainwright.com/?p=2790
Just leaving this here, A 20 page FAQ on how you go from writing about tomb raider to getting a job as a community manager for tomb raider.
Lauren Wainwright; Nu Games Journalism (Buy Tomb Raider, out March 2013)Any suggestions for a title? I'll PM a mod and ask them to change the title of this because more people need to know what's gone on here. Threatening action over that was, and is, disgusting.
GAF>Internet>GAF?
My question is why is she obsessed with a series as mediocre as Tomb Raider? That's the reason I can't trust anything she says, more than anything.
Ben Parfitt ‏@BenParfitt - Editor of MCVuk.com
Yeah, whatever mate. Bye.