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[UrbanRats]

I know who Carmack is and I respect what he's done, but he's not gonna come out and praise the thing. It's like Shu walking into a bone conference and singing its praises.

I don't think Oculus and Sony are on the same level of PR restraint, frankly.

Carmack has always been more than honest with his opinions and while i can see him making a "no comment", him slandering the competition with something he doesn't think is true? That's a whole other thing.
That's why i think your comment is not appropriate in this case.

 

[Alienous]

I hope Polyphony are working on a Gran Turismo VR for the PS4, optimized for Morpheus.

Doesn't need the biggest track selection, or car amount. Doesn't need to look as good as DRIVECLUB, even. Just make it an awesome showcase of how hard you can push the PS4 in VR. Able took around a car as you race. Seriously, that would be a device seller. Almost the perfect kind of thing to launch with, where you aren't considering complicated movement.

Get on it, Sony.

What's that?

My apologies.

#DRIVECLUB.

 

[gazele]

The end of gaming...

As we know it?

Not sure what you mean

 

[Nzyme32]

I know who Carmack is and I respect what he's done, but he's not gonna come out and praise the thing. It's like Shu walking into a bone conference and singing its praises.

This is just the way Carmack roles, he's a facts guy. If you read a bit further, he even has problems with the rift https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/446289511601811457 . He did the same with mantle and had a fairly strong opinion of nvidia tegra k1 claiming that their figures were wrong and that it's capabilities would not be as in their demo. He's usually on the ball

 

[msdstc]

I don't think Oculus and Sony are on the same level of PR restraint, frankly.

Carmack has always been more than honest with his opinions and while i can see him making a "no comment", him slandering the competition with something he doesn't think is true? That's a whole other thing.
That's why i think your comment is not appropriate in this case.

It's not necassarily about "no comment" or slandering to hell and back, but it's about wording. He mentioned 60 fps ps3 game, but didn't mention resolution, which ps3 games in particular? Some ps3 games look stunning, but the average game looks dated at this point.

This is just the way Carmack roles, he's a facts guy. If you read a bit further, he even has problems with the rift https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/446289511601811457 . He did the same with mantle and had a fairly strong opinion of nvidia tegra k1 claiming that their figures were wrong and that it's capabilities would not be as in their demo. He's usually on the ball

I'll take your word for it, but the fate of Rift relies on this particular product, and he was brought on to save and streamline the thing, don't be shocked if he changes his ways.

 

[Krisprolls]

Carmack is a Oculus Rift employee, why would he say anything positive about Sony VR ?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I wanna know how much it'd roughly be to have the tracking setup Valve used for their prototype. People were able to walk all around the room they had it set up in, complete freedom of movement. I know there were QR code looking printouts all over the walls but no idea where the cameras were if any were used or how it really works. I would totally devote a room to VR (if I had a spare one).

If there were QR codes on the wall I'd imagine the cameras were on the device itself, naturally..


Edit: depending on how exactly they had it set up, there could be multiple cameras on the walls instead.

 

[TheHall]

Carmack is a Oculus Rift employee, why would he say anything positive about Sony VR ?

During the Sony Kit reveal they said nothing but nice things about the guys who are working on the Oculus, so that argument really doesn't hold up

 

[Donos]

A lot of vr mopheus talk, means also more talk about Rift and the differences. I think the rift team is rather happy about sony also pushing this. And its also not a "rift for xb1 vs sony morpheus" competition situation like hddvd vs bluray was.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Wouldn´t using VR fucks up the eyes on the long run from starring so closely to a screen?

 

[StuBurns]

Carmack is a Oculus Rift employee, why would he say anything positive about Sony VR ?

Why would he lie?

Not selling a Morpheus doesn't mean selling a Rift.

Wouldn´t using VR fucks up the eyes on the long run from starring so closely to a screen?

No, it's more comfortable than viewing a monitor because the light comes from infinity, instead of ahead of the natural focal resting place.

 

[Tripolygon]

Terrible gif but, he seems to be enjoying himself. You could see the smile on his face in the instagram video.

Edit: Playstation move will finally get used properly.

 

[dragonbane]

my bad... but seriously who would know that?

Pretty sure a lot of people on this forum do.

 

[msdstc]

Why would he lie?

Not selling a Morpheus doesn't mean selling a Rift.

Again it's the main competitor, the entire company is relying on this one product, saying the line he said implies that the support on ps4 could end up being paltry. What could be done at 30FPS 720p with ps4 graphics? Resolution is nice, but it shouldn't matter too much on a personal viewer, no?

edit-

Pretty sure a lot of people on this forum do.

THis is similar to a thread where you post scenes from movies, but with no names. I guarantee you the majority of people who read that would have no idea. Such an elitist remark.

 

[Cyriades]

Terrible gif but, he seems to be enjoying himself. You could see the smile on his face in the instagram video.

he scared lol

 

[supergiz]

Wouldn´t using VR fucks up the eyes on the long run from starring so closely to a screen?

I'm curious about this. Planning on pulling 8 hour sessions with my vr and don't want to go blind.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I never thought it did track absolute position, all that really mattered to me at the end of the day was headtracking. Body tracking is not important to me, since without one of those treadmills, or a game on rails, it's mostly useless.

I was talking about absolute tracking of just the head.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

I'm curious about this. Planning on pulling 8 hour sessions with my vr and don't want to go blind.

Amateur. My VR porn fapping sessions will be much longer. Sadly, I will go blind.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

POV porn will be so much better now

 

[Maninthemirror]

Nice
https://vine.co/v/MhQg99g3Qvi

 

[supergiz]

Amateur. My VR porn fapping sessions will be much longer. Sadly, I will go blind.

Lol I meant gaming sessions. Porn only takes a few minutes.

 

[inm8num2]

Damn, I wish I were there to try this out!

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I know who Carmack is and I respect what he's done, but he's not gonna come out and praise the thing. It's like Shu walking into a bone conference and singing its praises.



You went from 1 extreme to the next there. If somebody complains about 60 fps, does that mean they're pissed it's not 240? No, I don't give a damn about that. I just missed the part where the rift uses cameras. I've seen a ton of videos and never noticed it, what are home users currently using for a camera? Does the dev kit come with it?

Just sayin...

It happens.

 

[Krisprolls]

During the Sony Kit reveal they said nothing but nice things about the guys who are working on the Oculus, so that argument really doesn't hold up

Still, they are competitors. Of course Oculus will say VR needs more power, that's the main reason why you'd chose them on a gaming PC over Sony VR.

It's one thing to "say nice things", it's another one to make people buy your competitor instead of yours.

 

[Krisprolls]

Just sayin...

It happens.

Once again, two different things. He says his competitor is smart, but he never says his competitor's product is better...

 

[gofreak]

Engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/19/project-morpheus-hands-on/

The cat's out of the bag and ... uh, on our head? Okay, we can do better than that, but what we're trying to say is that we just used Sony's new Playstation 4 virtual reality headset: Project Morpheus. You already know the specs and all that good stuff, we're here to tell you what it's like using the still-in-prototype-form virtual reality headset for the PlayStation 4. Good news: it's pretty great! Surprise!

I'd love to say it was a sweat-free experience; between gesticulating with PlayStation Move controllers as hands and being surrounded by hundreds of GDC attendees waiting for their chance to try Morpheus, I was relatively moist by the time I'd cut up the dummy model in The Castle with a virtual sword. While uncomfortable, I can get over that -- the issue is that it makes the optics fog up and that's no good at all. Part of the unit's design is based around keeping players cool, so you should expect a better experience as Morpheus goes from prototype to reality.

So, games! What's it like using Morpheus to play games? It's pretty neat! Well, that's to say, "It's a lot like playing games in the Oculus Rift headset, especially the newer versions of the Rift." In The Deep, I took a trip to the bottom of the ocean in a metal cage; when I bent down, my in-game knees bent (as tracked by the PlayStation Camera). When I looked up, my perspective turned skyward and the lamp mounted to my virtual head followed (the lighting was perhaps the most impressive part, with cage bars occluding properly and all).

In The Castle, I picked up two PlayStation Move controllers to act as hands, which enabled me to bend over, pick up a sword and take a dummy down a few notches. If I moved back a few steps, my in-game avatar moved back a few steps. One major change in Morpheus compared with other VR headsets is full-body tracking, which does legitimately add to the immersion effect.

It's not all virtual reality rainbows and dreams, of course. There are still some pretty major issues to overcome in Project Morpheus. Vision blur, for instance, is a much bigger problem on Morpheus than on Crystal Cove/Rift DK2. The screen resolution is also clearly not as high as DK2, making everything a bit muddier, visually speaking. Right now, well ahead of launch (Sony's not even talking about what the final product will be just yet, nonetheless giving it a launch window), Project Morpheus is both extremely promising and clearly not ready for primetime. But it's close!

Rear-view:

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

A lot of vr mopheus talk, means also more talk about Rift and the differences. I think the rift team is rather happy about sony also pushing this. And its also not a "rift for xb1 vs sony morpheus" competition situation like hddvd vs bluray was.

This was really the best timing for them to announce DK2. Those hungry to take the VR jump now after coming off the PR buzz of Sony's presentation may end up flocking to the Rift, for now at least. I'd imagine sales of DK2 may potentially be much higher than DK1 just due to the timing and Sony's presentation. Imo with the specs DK2 has it's certainly in a category of "consumer", at least much more so than DK1 is. Now having the content to back it up is another issue.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Sony at hands on event : no consumer product in 2014

I don't see a "year" or "AD" attached to that number so I'm still ready it'll be out by Christmas

 

[thunder_snail]

POV porn will be so much better now

 

[msdstc]

Just sayin...

It happens.

I knew something like this would be posted. Comments like this are always made about competitors, but they won't go out of their way and straight up say "theirs is better". The current consensus is that the rift takes a beast rig to run games of ps4/bone fidelity with the rift. If the ps4 can run games with VR at current visual fidelity or close, it can become FAR more accessible.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Those Engadget hands on is more positive than i expected .

 

[StuBurns]

Again it's the main competitor, the entire company is relying on this one product, saying the line he said implies that the support on ps4 could end up being paltry. What could be done at 30FPS 720p with ps4 graphics? Resolution is nice, but it shouldn't matter too much on a personal viewer, no?

Resolution matters a lot, as does framerate.

But if you want a more optimistic stance, I think he's wrong, we won't be seeing widespread MSAA use, it's too demanding, and the results aren't worth it at 60Hz in VR, I think people are much more likely to fall on something like SMAA which has stunning results in InFamous Second Son, but we'll see.

The other thing to consider is he's not talking about Sony's VR headset, he's talking about the PS4, which only about 10% of the core PC audience have PCs as good as anyway, he's making as much a statement about the Rift's use as he is Morpheus.

I think he's being conservative, and with misguided expectations of what people will target, but he's not being negative in a way that doesn't also reflect on Oculus.

 

[Man]

Nice
https://vine.co/v/MhQg99g3Qvi

She looks terrified in that shark cage.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Engadget:

Vision blur, for instance, is a much bigger problem on Morpheus than on Crystal Cove/Rift DK2. The screen resolution is also clearly not as high as DK2, making everything a bit muddier, visually speaking.

And there we have it. Sounds like they've got a good start though, especially with the tracking. Consumer model will likely be much more polished.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Hehe

 

[msdstc]

Resolution matters a lot, as does framerate.

But if you want a more optimistic stance, I think he's wrong, we won't be seeing widespread MSAA use, it's too demanding, and the results aren't worth it at 60Hz in VR, I think people are much more likely to fall on something like SMAA which has stunning results in InFamous Second Son, but we'll see.

The other thing to consider is he's not talking about Sony's VR headset, he's talking about the PS4, which only about 10% of the core PC audience have PCs as good as anyway, he's making as much a statement about the Rift's use as he is Morpheus.

I think he's being conservative, and with misguided expectations of what people will target, but he's not being negative in a way that doesn't also reflect on Oculus.

I never claimed to want anything, I just said careful who you listen to. I will wait to see what level of visual fidelity the games are at. I sincerely fear for the fate of this product if sony can't get the average ps4 game to use it. There was a lot of hope that Drive Club would use VR, if what Carmack says is true, there is a 0% chance of that happening.

 

[Maninthemirror]

The verge impressions

http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/3/19/5526730/sony-morpheus-vr-headset-compares-well-to-oculus-rift

There's no price or release date on a final version of Project Morpheus, and Sony has confirmed that it's definitely not coming this year. What we've seen, though, is a worthy entrant into the admittedly small head-mounted display market. Sony's hardware improves on the Rift's design, and despite some problems with image quality, it certainly measures up to similar options. For now, what we're really waiting on is a real stable of VR games, beyond tech demos and some adaptations of non-VR titles like Thief. And given its considerable clout with game developers, this will hopefully be an area where Sony really shines.

The obvious, unavoidable point of comparison for Project Morpheus is the Oculus Rift, which Sony now says it hopes to stay in friendly competition with. Morpheus and the Rift use 1080p screens and similar head-tracking technologies, but their strengths and weaknesses vary. Both headsets have gone a long way towards eliminating lag, but Morpheus is still a little blurrier than the newest version of the Rift. Conversely, its superior lenses have actually done better at removing the blocky "screen door" effect, even if the display obviously can't measure up to a 2D counterpart. It's great at blocking out light without feeling stifling, something the Rift still struggles with. Its 90-degree field of view, however, is a definite detriment. The first Oculus Rift developer kit left thin black bars in your peripheral vision, but Project Morpheus has unavoidable, often distracting black half-moons. It's still impressive, but it's got to get a lot better before I'd call it truly immersive.

Interesting . Morpheus is better at some things , rift at others

 

[Nzyme32]

Again it's the main competitor, the entire company is relying on this one product, saying the line he said implies that the support on ps4 could end up being paltry. What could be done at 30FPS 720p with ps4 graphics? Resolution is nice, but it shouldn't matter too much on a personal viewer, no?

There is always that risk of someone being like that, but he isn't a PR guy and is a tech guy who genuinely want to move things forward. The companies comments have been extremely excited and enthusiastic for PS4 VR, so it wouldn't make much sense. I suppose you'll see for yourself soon enough.

Resolution is important to avoid the screen door issue and frame rate above 60fps is crucial, otherwise you will have severe nausea as there is a disparity between your movements and when they appear on the VR display. Low persistence is also important and for that to work well you need at least 90fps, and sony intend for that to be in PS4 VR although it isn't there right now. This site attempts to illustrate the difference resolution and low persistence have http://vr.mkeblx.net/oculus-sim/

Graphical sacrifices will have to be made to make all that happen, so Carmack's prediction is probably close. If you read on, he clarifies that he thinks the PS4 is going to be a good platform for VR, he just want people to temper their expectations. The important this is that graphics fidelity is not what make VR compelling. Its all the interactions that convince your mind that you are in a different reality.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Engadget:

Vision blur, for instance, is a much bigger problem on Morpheus than on Crystal Cove/Rift DK2. The screen resolution is also clearly not as high as DK2, making everything a bit muddier, visually speaking.

And there we have it. Sounds like they've got a good start though, especially with the tracking. Consumer model will likely be much more polished.

Am I mistaken here? I thought OR DK2 had 1080p resolution, just like Morpheus?

 

[gofreak]

I think it's safe to say from impressions about iq vs Rift dk2 that the prototype does not have a low persistence screen. But they've earmarked it as something they want, so I think they'll have it for the consumer model.

 

[StuBurns]

Engadget:

And there we have it. Sounds like they've got a good start though, especially with the tracking. Consumer model will likely be much more polished.

There we have what? Proof Engadget don't know what resolution means?

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Once again, two different things. He says his competitor is smart, but he never says his competitor's product is better...

I just don't understand the kerfuffle over Carmack's comment. Not saying it's better =/= saying it's worse. It wasn't a put down, he was literally just spit-balling on twitter about what he expects out of it. It's not like he got up during an Oculus interview and was like "oh yeah, Sony's got no chance bro! Only PS3 level graphics."

And it's also not like he's really been hands on with the closed system of PS4+Morpheus, so people taking offense to his comment/thinking what he says is exactly what we'll get are also overreacting.

Fake Edit: Krisprolls, i'm not even sure which side you're arguing for, and sorry if this comment has nothing to do with your view point. Just felt like this whole Carmack tweet drama is super overblown.

 

[Bsigg12]

Am I mistaken here? I thought OR DK2 had 1080p resolution, just like Morpheus?

OLED vs LCD must make that much of a difference.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Rift and morpheus can only be good things for each other.

 

[Maninthemirror]

According to verge Morpheus has a better lens and Rift has a better screen

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

OLED vs LCD must make that much of a difference.

I wonder what price Sony is shooting for. Must be under $300 if they're not even willing to put OLED in the thing.

According to verge Morpheus has a better lens and Rift has a better screen

Can't they just like make out and make a hybrid device?

Spoiler

or just openly share their work for the benefit of VR?

 

[msdstc]

According to verge Morpheus has a better lens and Rift has a better screen

I know this sounds stupid, but would minor differences in this stuff really bother people? I think the most important thing is how well it works, and that'll be ultimately what people want.

 

[Bsigg12]

I wonder what price Sony is shooting for. Must be under $300 if they're not even willing to put OLED in the thing.

I'm assuming they will be using a screen they manufacture. What is the Vita's resolution? We know they switched to LCD there.

 

[Nzyme32]

There we have what? Proof Engadget don't know what resolution means?

I agree, the resolution of morpheus and dk2 are the same. It is more likely that this is an issue with full persistence and LCD screens, but this will likely be sorted in future versions

 

[WarpathDC]

Take my money already! I hope this doesn't torture us like the Rift waiting for a release date.