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GDC - NVIDIA, AMD, Intel Explain How OpenGL Can Unlock 15x Performance Gains
- Thread starter Nzyme32
- Start date
Hahaha oh boy.
Wishmaster92
Member
What would this mean for ps4?
Nothing.
dragonelite
Member
uuuhm yes..
And the bolded means console graphics are the graphical equivalent of legal blindness.
It is true that PCs are punching below their weight considering the hardware they pack.
That fact is true but, it has nothing to do with the ridiculous quote I bolded. Even with the hardware being inefficient, PC versions of games almost always have many more effects and higher resolutions then their console equivalents if your hardware can support it.
Fredrik
Member
This is the worst start of a generation yet, consoles are already inferior and now PC could get a 15x boost, starts to feel like I'm playing on retro consoles but without the warm and fuzzy feeling of nostalgia.
Shrike_Priest
Member
Ehrm
It's reducing overhead by 7-15 times, not increasing overall rendering performance.
I'm not sure how much is lost by overhead these days, but whatever the number, it's surely a fraction of overall performance and not equal to it?
I'm not sure how much is lost by overhead these days, but whatever the number, it's surely a fraction of overall performance and not equal to it?
StrangeADT
Banned
This is the worst start of a generation yet, consoles are already inferior and now PC could get a 15x boost, starts to feel like I'm playing on retro consoles but without the warm and fuzzy feeling of nostalgia.
... are you really sad about this? This is a good thing. Join us!
Correct.
childplease
Banned
This is great news especially with VR making a splash soon.
This is truly a new golden age of pc gaming isn't it.
This is truly a new golden age of pc gaming isn't it.
isn't it great
exmachina64
Banned
Haha, we'll see with Broadwell, I guess.
I think it's basically the case that PS4 already has "coding to the metal", while this would just be the PC equivalent.
I haven't checked the presentation itself but if it is similar to other recent talk about draw calls in directx clogging the cpu up it is something that could give a huge impact in a tailor made demo but will have a smaller impact in existing software made to work within the constraints that existed.
UnrealEck
Member
This would still likely have happened. Valve's Steam platform is gaining on its already huge incluence of the PC games market and they have moved towards Linux and therefore OpenGL. It's a natural move for Microsoft to counter it with a DirectX update.
No. That was already the case before the consoles were even out.
No, it doesn't.
There was support for OpenGL ES, but that was pretty much dropped and no-one uses it.
It isn't.
Apparently, GNM and GNMX.
http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4
Fredrik
Member
A great gaming PC is far too expensive imo. I'm a tiny bit interested in Steam boxes though, so we'll see what happens.
exmachina64
Banned
You can easily build one for the cost of a next-gen console.
Check out this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745567
Steam Machines aren't going to be any cheaper and can't equal the amount you save by building it yourself. There are plenty of helpful people in the thread.
Exactly. Buzzwords and claims aside, it has to raise a few eyebrows to see these three working together to oust DirectX, with Valve also pitching in. That's a lot of muscle.
1) I'd say they are equivalent. Writing simple applications in either of them is simple these days.
2) Well, there's the OpenGL extension wrangler library (GLEW) which does all the boring extension handling. Modern DirectX doesn't really have extensions, which is also why you need to wait until late 2015 to get similar improvements in it as you can get in OpenGL now.
3) Not much. A small issue with GLSL is that it's compiled by the driver so there may be interpretation differences, but at least now there's a reference compiler.
Yes. Currently, the biggest feature I know of in CUDA which you can't replicate with OpenCL is dynamic parallelism.
Most of the features described in this talk were added to OpenGL before Mantle existed.
Edit: No. All of the features described in this talk.
Right. Totally.
maneil99
Member
No, Direct X and OpenGL would never be hardware exclusive.
exmachina64
Banned
Yes, they'll push greater performance to consumers at a time when CPU performance increases have stagnated.
AMD and Intel CPUs use the same instruction set (x86), so it's not like Intel could pay someone to use their processors exclusively.
AMD's recent CPUs haven't been able to compete with Intel's in terms of performance. Consequently, they're not recommended for use in an enthusiast PC build.
The same concept applies to GPUs. Nvidia or AMD might be able to get a slight advantage in certain games, but not exclusive ability to run on those GPUs.
The only limiting factor would be if developers use DirectX and make their games Windows exclusive.
OpenGL is an open source, cross-platform alternative that's not owned by any one stakeholder. It's at the heart of the recent push to make games available across Windows, Mac, and Linux.
No developer would limit themselves to only being able to run on certain AMD GPUs on Windows by going Mantle-exclusive.
Mantle works on Intel and AMD CPUs, but only on certain AMD GPUs (on Windows) for now. Nvidia probably won't give its competitor an advantage by supporting Mantle also, so it can't really become anything but an alternative vendor specific API tied to a specific platform. Now that DirectX and OpenGL are mirroring the reduced overhead of Mantle, it's possible for everyone to adopt these practices and Mantle wouldn't be necessary.
Turin Turambar
Member
Good news dude, Ps3 is already using it!
There is a pretty noticeable boost in Mantle versions of games, as you can see in recent reviews of Thief game.
GPU manufacturer not taking part in major API discussions would be surprising.
In other words, sense your post makes none.
Well, why would it be a bigger gap than last gen, if PC hardware is developing at much more modest pace now? (like two times slower)
They still have a rather large advantage in terms of optimization.
No matter what, API wars will benefit everyone.
Turin Turambar
Member
As Durante said, all of this stuff was around before Mantle, thus Mantle was pointless.
Hahahahaha...... No.
The 15x speed up is in reference to how much lower the driver overhead is, not the performance of the whole system and claiming that PC graphics are rubbish is clueless dribble!
Multi platform games on PC support the same or higher settings than the consoles.
For example: BF4 is mid/low on the PS4 and XB1, DoG: Ghosts looks better on PC, Thief looks the same but runs much better.
UnrealEck
Member
The 15x is being a bit bold I agree. Your point about PC graphics looking rubbish is silly. You even dismissed resolution as if it doesn't have a massive impact on processing power.
dragonbane
Member
Arent these APIs quite similar to OpenGL though? We know from at least a couple of PS exclusive developers that their PC engine is written in OpenGL at least. I would assume that is because it makes porting easier.
It's going to be interesting to see how things look a few years from now. The major benefits of these APIs is that it'll bring the baseline up for lower-end PCs in the future , all these new technologies (DX12, Mantle, OpenGL optimizations, G-Sync, Free-Sync) are pretty much waging war on those lower-end machines that have been holding progress back. I remember Epic was complain to Intel about this not long ago, and it seems to be finally starting to happen. It'll going to mean fantastic things in regards to price
erformance.That doesn't mean it isn't there... Just wait a while. Look at early PS3 vs games now.
Really? Look at the specs. That the graphics on a 9 year old console can hold its own today is quite something.
For PS4, it's a new system. It will take some time before devs learn to optimize. So many users are so fast to jump on the graphics when it's not as good as it can be.
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