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[Regulus Tera]

Seriously considering cancelling my preorder now and waiting on a different release.

Why haven't you done this already when you've been posting in disgust to the changes throughout the thread?

 

[diddles]

What has been changed in ESB?

after yoda pulls the xwing out of the swamp for luke, he does a quadruple turbo flip, blinks a couple times, pulls out his lightsaber, and goes flipping off into the trees while luke has a digitally altered dropped jaw.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's sad..... there was a time when everyone was excited about Lucas making changes to the Star Wars trilogy.

 

[SkyMasterson]

You know what? I'm kind of thankful he did this as Lucas just saved me $90.

I will still get these but only when Amazon has them on a crazy sale.

Like I know it's so cliche to be like "WTF Lucas" and nerd rage, but this is just absurd. He's gone off the deep end now and my VHS's will have to satisfy me for now.

I do know one thing though, I'm very optimistic that one day we will see the originals remastered, it just sucks we have to wait to damn long.

 

[Narag]

Cancelled my preorder. Will track down a loose ESB bluray and content myself with that.

 

[kinoki]

Can't someone just re-cut the entire original triology mixing out every single line spoken by Vader with "NOOoooOOOoo1!"?

 

[Narag]

Can't someone just re-cut the entire original triology mixing out every single line spoken by Vader with "NOOoooOOOoo1!"?

Tarkin: Enough of this! Vader, release him!
Vader: NooOooOOo!

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I just want the original 3 movies (episodes 4,5,6) on something other than VHS... and without any changes.

 

[randomwab]

I just want the original 3 movies (episodes 4,5,6) on something other than VHS... and without any changes.

DVD versions of the laserdisc rips? Probably better quality than VHS.

 

[jaxword]

The carbonate scene in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEqPJNVIgcg&feature=related

The blooming is not as blatant when it's in motion.

It still looks like crap, though?

I don't get why Lucas wants to update the WRONG effects. He ADDS things but doesn't UPDATE things that were done with 1970 tech that could look better now. Updating EFFECTS doesn't change the storyline.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I just want the original 3 movies (episodes 4,5,6) on something other than VHS... and without any changes.

Be on the lookout for this then:

https://picasaweb.google.com/109609428403596349302/HarmySStarWarsDespecializedEditionComparisons

 

[Night_Trekker]

George Lucas is a sad little man with an embarrassing hard on for CGI. Either all his early successes were flukes (or more likely the result of surrounding himself with more talented people), or middle age has been infinitely cruel, changing him from a young visionary into the biggest sellout whore in the history of cinema.

Earlier in the week I ran into this quote on the Jurassic Park Wikipedia page, and I nearly lost my lunch. On seeing the first CGI T-Rex animatic:

As George Lucas watched the demonstration alongside of them, his eyes began to tear up. "It was like one of those moments in history, like the invention of the light bulb or the first telephone call," he said. "A major gap had been crossed, and things were never going to be the same.

FUCK YOU, GEORGE. FUUUUUCKKKKK YOOOOOUUUUUUU.

 

[mrklaw]

Anakin never looked like that old man in robes. Sooo... is that how he envisioned himself? Somehow, I find it easier to imagine him remembering how he looked like before he turned into Vader than him going "hey, that probably is what I'd look like at the age of my death had I not been burnt to a crisp!"

[Note for the idiots out there: I'm merely defending the idea for that one scene. That doesn't make me a "change apologist" or whatever.]

logic is one thing - you can just about manage to technically explain either solution. But doesn't it work better as Luke's Father if he's older than Luke? He's a mythical presence in his life as he never knew his father but always heard stories about his bravery and goodness etc. Finally the truth is revealed, and Vader redeems himself in front of his son, reinforcing the good memories that Luke has.

And then we see some 12 year old as a ghost? That doesn't really scan.

 

[mrklaw]

I might not have been the brightest kid on the block, but I remember seeing that part back in the day and wondering to myself "Who the heck is that guy?"I just wrote about how movies should NOT be changed, but here I can kind of understand what George was going for.

really? We see the same actor just a short while earlier when Vader is unmasked. Yes he's disfigured but I think its pretty recognisable as the same guy. And then there is the whole 'we've seen obi-wan as a ghost before, yoda disappeared when he died so he's a ghost now, that other guy is probably Anakin'

it all joins up perfectly well. Only Lucas seems to think you need to telegraph and join up things to be so simplistically explained as to basically insult everyone watching.

every fucking character is literally connected to everyone else up there on screen (very annoying in the prequel trilogy). Completely unnecessary, we can fill in blanks just fine.

 

[mrklaw]

What the fuck? No it wouldn't. Hayden wasn't even born when the original Star Wars was made.

Also watching them in order ruins the tension for the most part, especially the discovering of Darth Vader and Princess Leia which is meant to be a major shock. Of course both are pop culture iconic spoilers that everyone knows about...but when you show these movies to kids, they're just gonna be underwhelmed when it's first revealed.

Lucas made the "middle" of Star Wars because he wanted viewers to see that first, initially. Now with the prequel trilogy he's changed his mind.

there are lots of movie prequels out there. isnt' the entire idea of a PREquel to be showing you things that happened before the events you're already familiar with? Key point being you already know the current situation. The prequel riffs off that viewer knowledge and references it for your benefit. You know things that the characters up on screen don't know yet, and thats part of the fun.

Prequels aren't meant to literally be viewed before the original movies.

 

[DonMigs85]

Will the Ewoks still speak tagalog?

 

[okdakor]

The way that it's shot, the acting and even the hairstyles all date the film. So all these additions are invariably distracting because the audience intuitively knows they don't belong.

I think we have now the technology to recreate hairstyles for every characters... Wait for the 3D edition...

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Nothing, as far as I've read.

Sadly that means the color is still all wrong, but we're lucky that Lucas respected Kershner so much. Who knows what he might have added otherwise.

http://www.ugo.com/movies/ew-celebrates-empire-strikes-back

when presenting PR maven Sid Ganis with an award back in 2007, Lucas publicly stated, "Sid is the reason why The Empire Strikes Back is always written about as the best of the films, when it actually was the worst one."

 

[lazybones18]

http://www.ugo.com/movies/ew-celebrates-empire-strikes-back

That George is such a character

 

[Chuckie]

"Sid is the reason why The Empire Strikes Back is always written about as the best of the films, when it actually was the worst one."

Wait what? He actually said that?

That would be the ultimate proof Lucas actually doesn't know shit about what makes Star Wars good :lol

 

[Erigu]

logic is one thing - you can just about manage to technically explain either solution.

That was my point, pretty much. Some people go on about that new scene making no sense, but I'd say that's an exaggeration, and the original scene wasn't necessarily much better in that area.

But doesn't it work better as Luke's Father if he's older than Luke?

There certainly are valid arguments for both sides, yes. Not arguing otherwise.

Prequels aren't meant to literally be viewed before the original movies.

Well, when they're titled "episodes 1/2/3", it kinda suggests that...
It's a bit of a mess anyway, as no matter the order you watch them in (assuming you're some kid in the 22nd century who hasn't been exposed to spoilers), twists will be ruined anyway...

http://www.ugo.com/movies/ew-celebrates-empire-strikes-back

Er... Right. Let's say you were joking, Georgie boy.

 

[JB1981]

As much as I adore the original trilogy, I can't in good conscience buy these movies with even more edits. Everyone needs to skip this shit until he at least provides a good quality version of the original cuts as an alternative.

Isn't he literally destroying the original ?

 

[NekoFever]

Isn't he literally destroying the original ?

That's been a persistent rumour but the original must have been cleaned up in order to give them a quality print to use when making the SEs. And we know that there are collectors out there with original prints, like that gorgeous Technicolor one of ANH that was posted earlier in the thread.

 

[itxaka]

It still looks like crap, though?

I don't get why Lucas wants to update the WRONG effects. He ADDS things but doesn't UPDATE things that were done with 1970 tech that could look better now. Updating EFFECTS doesn't change the storyline.

If I have learned something about Lucas, is that he has a hard on for CGI. After trying to see Indy4 during several days (I couldn't finish it yet, it's so bad) it looks like the whole reason of the movie is to show CGI effects here and there. Which makes sense with the changes he is making to the old movies.

He is a CGIholic.

 

[RS4-]

Be on the lookout for this then:

https://picasaweb.google.com/109609428403596349302/HarmySStarWarsDespecializedEditionComparisons

Only version that matters until Lucas cleans up the originals and doesn't screw around with them.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It's Lucas' fault that he cast a 70 year old Alec Guinness and then realized there was only a 20 year gap between the prequels.

It's not as off as you think. Guinness would've been about 62 when A New Hope filmed. Ewan McGregor about 32 for Revenge of the Sith.

 

[Tobor]

George Lucas speaking in front of Congress in 1988:

"My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I've come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.
There is nothing to stop American films, records, books, and paintings from being sold to a foreign entity or egotistical gangsters and having them change our cultural heritage to suit their personal taste.

Read your own words, George. FFS.

 

[neorej]

George Lucas speaking in front of Congress in 1988:



Read your own words, George. FFS.

Damn. Lucas pwns himself pre-emptivly.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists

What he's doing is basically asserting his rights as the artist to determine how his work is seen. From a certain point of view.

 

[alr1ght]

been posted a month ago and probably 5 times in the last 2 days.

 

[Cheerilee]

Isn't he literally destroying the original ?

That's been a persistent rumour but the original must have been cleaned up in order to give them a quality print to use when making the SEs. And we know that there are collectors out there with original prints, like that gorgeous Technicolor one of ANH that was posted earlier in the thread.

I knew I had heard it before from a reliable-sounding source, and just found it again.

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/savingstarwars.html

These new negatives were then cut into the O-neg, replacing the originals (which, I must presume, were put in storage). One caveat of this is that each time the negative has a new portion of film cut into it, a frame on either side of it is lost in the process of cementing the new film piece into the reel; if one compares closely the SE to the previous releases, one finds that any new shot is missing a few frames at the head and tail, though the difference is imperceptible when in motion.

So according to this, Lucas was physically destroying individual frames from the original negative during the creation of the first Special Editions.

It was said earlier in this thread that modern technology doesn't require him to destroy frames, but you have to wonder how many frames he destroyed with his yearly changes of heart before we reached that technological level, or if he's just an old softie who prefers to edit things the old way when film is involved and is still destroying frames.

 

[NekoFever]

I'm sure they've had good digital masters since at least the time of the SEs, bearing in mind that only five years later they were making the movies entirely digitally. And, like I said, collectors have original theatrical prints that are in excellent condition and will contain the missing frames.

 

[Tobor]

been posted a month ago and probably 5 times in the last 2 days.

Well, it can't ever be posted enough. That speech should be printed on stickers and stuck to the front of every bluray. Lucas should have to wear it on a t-shirt whenever he appears in public.

 

[Sephiroth503]

I remember when I got the Special Edition VHS's in '97 and watching the 10-15min stuff at the start with all the changes...

...and then at the end the voice over goes "Now, sit back and get ready to experience George Lucas' definitive vision of (insert film)" or something like that.

Definitive until even BETTER technology than the 90s could provide became available obviously. Wonder if they'll stick that voiceover again into this release.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm sure they've had good digital masters since at least the time of the SEs, bearing in mind that only five years later they were making the movies entirely digitally. And, like I said, collectors have original theatrical prints that are in excellent condition and will contain the missing frames.

nope, HD only it seems. Ideally you want the original scanned at 4k if possible and its nowhere near that - they just did 'enough' for the DVDs. digital scanning was still quite expensive then.


its really a trivial thing - I think there were estimates that you could probably put together the original, do basic edits like the optical composition and color correction, and probably keep some of the better CG shots (eg Xwing beauty parade) for a couple of million dollars. Literally small change for lucas. You'd recoup that many times over releasing an 'original, original trilogy' boxset on bluray

 

[Cheerilee]

I'm sure they've had good digital masters since at least the time of the SEs, bearing in mind that only five years later they were making the movies entirely digitally. And, like I said, collectors have original theatrical prints that are in excellent condition and will contain the missing frames.

According to that article, a digital master was considered too expensive at the time (even though Fox was paying Lucas to do this), so they only scanned the scenes they intended to photoshop, and those were scanned in "mere" HD resolution. The photoshopped prints were then printed out to film and physically glued into the original negative (destroying frames).

On Lucas' dime for his later whims, I'm sure he only scanned the select few scenes he intended to further modify, and continued to hack and glue away at the original negative.

And the guy in charge of the restoration had access to all sorts of prints, and concluded that no prints were as capable as the original negative, provided they could fix the color fading in the original negative (which they did, with access to George Lucas' personal technicolor print).

 

[richiek]

Kevin Smith weighs in on the NOOOOO controversy:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=225c1504-7a70-4b64-bc6f-489e66f662e4

Go to the about the 17 minute mark

Smith basically says "As a guy who saw ROTJ when it first came out in the theater, who gives a shit? And the interviewers agree with him.

 

[Tobor]

Kevin Smith weighs in on the NOOOOO controversy:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=225c1504-7a70-4b64-bc6f-489e66f662e4

Go to the about the 17 minute mark

Smith basically says "As a guy who saw ROTJ when it first came out in the theater, who gives a shit? And the interviewers agree with him.

Anyone concerned with the preservation of culturally and historically important films should give a shit.

 

[Medalion]

Kevin Smith weighs in on the NOOOOO controversy:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=225c1504-7a70-4b64-bc6f-489e66f662e4

Go to the about the 17 minute mark

Smith basically says "As a guy who saw ROTJ when it first came out in the theater, who gives a shit? And the interviewers agree with him.

Kevin Smith is a known George Lucas cocksucker, he even liked the prequels, so take that as you will

 

[mrklaw]

Anyone concerned with the preservation of culturally and historically important films should give a shit.

did you read the bit where it says 'Kevin Smith'?

 

[mattp]

anyone who owns a bluray player and wants to watch their favorite movie(or what used to be), in the best quality, gives a shit
its that simple

 

[Tedesco!]

Anyone concerned with the preservation of culturally and historically important films should give a shit.

This might apply to ANH and ESB. It does not apply to Jedi.

 

[Takao]

Kevin Smith weighs in on the NOOOOO controversy:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=225c1504-7a70-4b64-bc6f-489e66f662e4

Go to the about the 17 minute mark

Smith basically says "As a guy who saw ROTJ when it first came out in the theater, who gives a shit? And the interviewers agree with him.

 

[itxaka]

Kevin Smith weighs in on the NOOOOO controversy:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=225c1504-7a70-4b64-bc6f-489e66f662e4

Go to the about the 17 minute mark

Smith basically says "As a guy who saw ROTJ when it first came out in the theater, who gives a shit? And the interviewers agree with him.

waitwaitwaitwaitwait, what "nooooo" controversy? What has lucus done to it? I NEED INFO NOW!

 

[KennyLinder]

Is there video footage of this gif? Need to see!

 

[The Elite]

Has this been fixed?

 

[Risette]

waitwaitwaitwaitwait, what "nooooo" controversy? What has lucus done to it? I NEED INFO NOW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RVJJfny4I

 

[richiek]

More confirmation that the lightsabers in the ROTJ duel have been fixed:

 

[DrForester]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27RVJJfny4I

OK, Lucas is just trolling the fans at this point.

 

[Medalion]

OK, Lucas is just trolling the fans at this point.

Yes, yes he is.

He takes one of the most laughed at things from Episode 3,... and that's saying something, and doubles it ups in ROTJ