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GI.biz: Microsoft needs to clarify gaming vision (UWP)

foltzie1

Member
Having an iOS like version of Windows isn't the worst idea and I personally see some benefits to such a system, but the failure of Windows RT and the previous need to continue to support binaries back to the 16 bit era should haves informed them to how certain groups of people would react to this.

Apples own Mac App Store has seen considerable stagnation due to its polices (sanboxing breaking previous award winning apps, no upgrades, ect). Does Microsoft think the trade offs are acceptable?

I certainly understand the secrecy around hardware announcements, but playing coy with your developers with regards to the OS is bad business.
 

Figments

Member
Do you consider Steam boxes to be consoles?



Don't underestimate the difference between the Ballmer and the Nadella eras, they are as different as it gets when it comes to CEO execs. The entire company has changed direction radically, and the impact on the Xbox division will be greater than any change within the Ballmer era.

Shareholders are sick of losing money, they want that Windows and productivity monopoly from the 90s back. Gaming plays almost no role in that.


I mean, this thread has nothing to do with the console, but go ahead, no one's stopping you, I guess.
 
And right now compatibility problems can be fixed by users. If it was a packaged UWA that would be much more difficult.



If you actually understood the possible long term implications namely that by restricting certain API features to UWAs MS could slowly but surely make Win32 obsolete over time, you'd realise that if that strategy plays out it'll be much more difficult for Steam to function as it does now. But I suppose firing off a one line post is super urgent so there might not have been time to actually read about the issue



Ah well that makes it ok I suppose

Thanks but I am fully aware of the dx12 api issues. I am also aware that if windows becomes a closed system that people will move on to something else. But if you read the other threads you would have seen this.
 

jelly

Member
Watch as Microsoft fucks up this windows store venture and manages to ruin the xbox brand along the way.

3 years later.....after failure

Announcing the Microsoft Store, no not the retail one, this is now an App Store. GMA, Global Microsoft Apps, tier 2 and 3 countries to follow at later date, some features may not apply, previous UWA purchases can still be used on Windows 10 devices for a limited time including Xbox but not Windows 12 which is GMA exclusive. If you actually used Groove, you should have known better, please repurchase songs on Bing Music. Introducing DX14 with the Zune Game Platform on Windows Surface, Xbox games not compatible. Many subscriptions available, free Skype minutes.
 

Durante

Member
That's true, Tomb raiders not great. But mods will work but will need to be coded by the developer to allow it (like I said in a earlier post some niche features may be removed like modding games not make to be modded by the developer).
I don't have the numbers (right now, given that this is a common argument I may invest some time in the future to get some), but it's pretty obvious to me that in the whole of PC gaming, publisher-approved and supported mods are the minority (or "niche"), not "unofficially" modded ones.

it may take some time before everything is 100% but MS is looking long term goals.
Well, I agree with that, certainly. I just very much doubt that many gamers share MS' long-term goals, which are likely to primarily amount to MS making more profit.
 

papo

Member
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all. Like they and we knopw shit about what this is yet conclusion have been reached.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.

Windows 10 Store is here. The criticism is warranted due to the here and now.

This is about the PC ecosystem, Sony and Nintendo have nothing to do with the conversation.
 

notaskwid

Member
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all. Like they and we knopw shit about what this is yet conclusion have been reached.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.

66333758.jpg


More at me.me
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
I'm just glad other outlets are picking up the story as well and talking about this UWP crap NOW instead of later down the line when it might be too late.
 
Ehhh the problem with Ms is that they always announce stuff prematurely with out anything to show how it works. I'm sure later on we will see what they mean and it probably won't be as bad as most Microsoft hater's make it out to be.
 
Ehhh the problem with Ms is that they always announce stuff prematurely with out anything to show how it works. I'm sure later on we will see what they mean and it probably won't be as bad as most Microsoft hater's make it out to be.
Then they deserve to be called out for their incompetence. Hating has nothing to do with it. There are legit issues here as Tim Sweeney will tell you.
 
Then they deserve to be called out for their incompetence. Hating has nothing to do with it. There are legit issues here as Tim Sweeney will tell you.
Yea I have heard that they have in place some coding or what not (not a pc player) to stop people from modding and that sucks but other than that idk what else people are upset about.
 
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all. Like they and we knopw shit about what this is yet conclusion have been reached.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.

Whenever a company fucks up with something or if they have certain plans that doesn't benefit consumers, etc., then they're going to be called out on & critized. Simple.
 

cakely

Member
Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all.

The article discusses an application framework for Microsoft's OS.

I think you might have confused this topic with something else. Sony and Nintendo have literally nothing to do with this topic at all.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yea I have heard that they have in place some coding or what not (not a pc player) to stop people from modding and that sucks but other than that idk what else people are upset about.

Looks at username... reads the bolded... so you're are here to defend MSFT's honor. Got it.
 
Yea I have heard that they have in place some coding or what not (not a pc player) to stop people from modding and that sucks but other than that idk what else people are upset about.
So you came into the topic with no idea on the subject to defend a big corporation. ....yikes.
 

harSon

Banned
If only Microsoft had a major conference in which they could detail stuff like this within the month of March...
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
If only Microsoft had a major conference in which they could detail stuff like this within the month of March...
For their own sake, I hope they are as clear and open as possible with communication in regards to UWP & UWAs. Otherwise, prepare for the confusion/blowback onslaught.
 

MUnited83

For you.
If only Microsoft had a major conference in which they could detail stuff like this within the month of March...
If only the Windows 10 store wasn't available right now and for a year already....
You don't get to be excepted from criticism when your product is already out for sale and use. People have actual issues with it, which are very much problems worth discussing. Not wanting those things discussed because "hurr durr wait for details despite this Store being live for quite a while now" is idiotic. If they wanted to be excepted from criticism, they should have adressed such concerns before.
 

Nocturno999

Member
MS will always resort to the "we gave the wrong message" bullshit.
They aren't clear because they know their steps are anti consumer and people will be pissed off.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
If only the Windows 10 store wasn't available right now and for a year already....
You don't get to be excepted from criticism when your product is already out for sale and use. People have actual issues with it, which are very much problems worth discussing. Not wanting those things discussed because "hurr durr wait for details despite this Store being live for quite a while now" is idiotic. If they wanted to be excepted from criticism, they should have adressed such concerns before.

It really is that simple.
 
If only the Windows 10 store wasn't available right now and for a year already....
You don't get to be excepted from criticism when your product is already out for sale and use. People have actual issues with it, which are very much problems worth discussing. Not wanting those things discussed because "hurr durr wait for details despite this Store being live for quite a while now" is idiotic. If they wanted to be excepted from criticism, they should have adressed such concerns before.
Exactly.
 

riflen

Member
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all. Like they and we knopw shit about what this is yet conclusion have been reached.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.

In the PC world, we try to fix problems before they appear.
 

LordRaptor

Member
If only Microsoft had a major conference in which they could detail stuff like this within the month of March...

As I've said before, if they have a solution just waiting to be announced that solves everyones problems, why the fuck release Gears in a broken state on a broken storefront as a broken UWA?
Nobody outside of MS knew its release date - apparently including the software interoperability experts from AMD and NVidia - so delaying until it wasn't a huge clusterfuck stealth launch, you know, makes sense from every perspective.

So why didn't they do that?
 

spwolf

Member
I love one-sided articles that don't demonstrate both sides of the argument effectively!

Like this:



Is bullshit. There are many instances of old Win32 programs that lose compatibility or require specific plugins or software required to run successfully. They then install deep into your system files that are never truly discarded. I know Steam doesn't necessarily have this problem but UWA are not just games, they are trying to get rid of the bullshit so many shitty develops put into their apps when you install them from their websites. There are multiple layers to this argument that this article ignores and articles like from ArsTechnica does much better.



All Phil said was this was his vision. "more iteration on hardware capability" could mean anything at this point, it's not his fault people read waaay too into his words (because he's probably not that sure what would fit the market yet either).

Being open platform is the best thing about Windows.

UWA doesnt matter at all unless they try to close the platform which they did try with Windows RT... it failed completely and miserably and very fast.

I am not sure if it is even possible for them to lock out everyone out of Windows ecosystem legally.

If they use UWA to get more games and apps for their mobile platform, good for them and their mobile users. Forcing it on everyone is going to fail in 2-3 days after it is out. Nobody likes using UWA apps or games or Windows Store.
 

Unai

Member
If only the Windows 10 store wasn't available right now and for a year already....
You don't get to be excepted from criticism when your product is already out for sale and use. People have actual issues with it, which are very much problems worth discussing. Not wanting those things discussed because "hurr durr wait for details despite this Store being live for quite a while now" is idiotic. If they wanted to be excepted from criticism, they should have adressed such concerns before.

I couldn't have said it better.
 
Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.
 

vcc

Member
Yea I have heard that they have in place some coding or what not (not a pc player) to stop people from modding and that sucks but other than that idk what else people are upset about.

The fact that they can turn off the other stores and if w10 store takes off they are incentivized to undermine the others.

It's their patented business model. Embrace and put out a offering. Extend, fund and push it till it's #1 and then use that position to extinguish competitors.

The xb1 prelaunch nonsense was them pushing the extinguish button too early.

UWP takes control of programs from users. It is geared toward more app like programs. It is part and parcel with the store. The concern is if they follow their normal 3 step nonsense then it qould exstinguish pc gaming as we know it in favor of a iOS 'ecosystem' which would be bad for us.
 

Massa

Member
Hey everyone, it looks like the Windows 10 release date is July 29, 2015. Please wait until then to start complaining.
 

vcc

Member
Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

This encapsulates what i see them as. A vast group of folks sabotaging each other to get ahead individually.
 
Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

Yep. See this a lot with bigger corporations.
 

krang

Member
Even if that level of selfishness was ok, what's the point of stomping into a thread about those concerns and loudly trumpeting how much you don't care? Post count? Self satisfaction?

Coming in and saying you're ok with it is no worse than someone coming in and saying how the world is coming to an end :shrugs:
 

KingV

Member
I am a console guy, I like to play using controllers against others using controllers with everybody having an equal playing field (frame rate, FOV etc etc).

That why I like consoles. The MS API is kinda appealing to a console gamer (just my view)....

Still, agree with the article, people need to know what the direction is, its so confusing.

I definitely think there's room for both, there are certain games that I currently refuse to buy on PC because the communities just aren't there for them on PC over the long haul. This is typically competitive FPS's not named Counterstrike.

I would support some sort of sandboxed environment that has cross play over Xbox Live to play those games on PC (Titanfall 2, I'm looking at you). I can understand not wanting to pollute your Xbox Live experience for Boners by letting people potentially using PC openness to have an advantage with overlays, or potentially things like aim bots.

That said, don't want everything to go that way.
 

harSon

Banned
If only the Windows 10 store wasn't available right now and for a year already....
You don't get to be excepted from criticism when your product is already out for sale and use. People have actual issues with it, which are very much problems worth discussing. Not wanting those things discussed because "hurr durr wait for details despite this Store being live for quite a while now" is idiotic. If they wanted to be excepted from criticism, they should have adressed such concerns before.

I 100% agree with that assessment. But it also doesn't make sense to constantly ask for clarification on a subject they're already on record saying that they'll be discussing it in a conference that's 2 weeks away. If //Build comes and goes, and you don't have detailed answers or a tangible road map for when we can expect what is discussed to be deployed - then by all means hang them out to dry. But until then it's readily clear that they're not going to 'clarify' anything until their already planned //Build event, and for better or worse, nothing is going to really change that fact.
 

tfur

Member
Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

And to think, you did not even mention their debacles in the mobile phone space.

After spending 7 billion on Nokia, plus all of the other investments, they are completely dead.
 

Knuf

Member
[snip]

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

Obligatory:
Organizational-Chart-for-Apple-Amazon-Facebook-Google-Microsoft-and-Oracle.jpg
 

jelly

Member
Xbox is under Windows which doesn't give you much hope. I don't think it's coincidence the best times were the trailblazing original Xbox and quite a bit of the 360 era when the rest of Microsoft didn't have their mitts all over it.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Having an iOS like version of Windows isn't the worst idea and I personally see some benefits to such a system, but the failure of Windows RT and the previous need to continue to support binaries back to the 16 bit era should haves informed them to how certain groups of people would react to this.

Apples own Mac App Store has seen considerable stagnation due to its polices (sanboxing breaking previous award winning apps, no upgrades, ect). Does Microsoft think the trade offs are acceptable?

I certainly understand the secrecy around hardware announcements, but playing coy with your developers with regards to the OS is bad business.

I don't think the initial reasoning behind this is for any concerted push into ousting steam or anything. More likely it is a byproduct of the windows 10 everywhere strategy - they need this approach (or a close variation on it) to allow them to have one app run on desktops, xbox and phones.
 

Nokterian

Member
Looks at username... reads the bolded... so you're are here to defend MSFT's honor. Got it.

Astroturfers are on the rise again on neogaf...let's hope bish or other mods notice it also.

Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

Great summary on why Microsoft still to this day never knows what the fuck they're doing on PC gaming side like they did with GFWL and all those promises are just to me not worth it to even buy it from the windows store because of the restrictions and what not.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
When was this announcement? I have never seen so many articles calling something out that they really don't know the details about. FFS wait for the details then crap on them if need be. This pre-judment crap is getting stupid. Literally no else is doing this to Sony or Nintendo in any way at all. Like they and we knopw shit about what this is yet conclusion have been reached.

I really want MS to actually give out every fucking thing these articles are calling them out just to see what shit they will thrash them about next.

What no snarky comeback?

All the other people in this thread reply, and you can't be bothered to reply after getting good explanations from various posters of why articles are popping up on this issue?
 

LordRaptor

Member
The sickest burn in that image is reserved for what a shitty, shitty, shitty company Oracle has become, but its not really a gaming reference.

Xbox is under Windows which doesn't give you much hope. I don't think it's coincidence the best times were the trailblazing original Xbox and quite a bit of the 360 era when the rest of Microsoft didn't have their mitts all over it.

Maybe from an Xbox owners perspective.
From a PC gamers perspective, the worst things always happen when Xbox declares themselves to represent 'gaming' in general, and then proceed to smear their dew and doritos stained fingers all over PC gaming.
 
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