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[TheSeks]

Obligatory:
http://usingapple.com/wp-content/up...azon-Facebook-Google-Microsoft-and-Oracle.jpg

That accuracy tho.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

So you came into the topic with no idea on the subject to defend a big corporation. ....yikes.

Defend? I said Microsoft has a problem with announcing stuff prematurely with out anything to show and that the stuff they put out afterwards isn't as bad a people who hate Microsoft make it out to be...lol

 

[Papacheeks]

Defend? I said Microsoft has a problem with announcing stuff prematurely with out anything to show and that the stuff they put out afterwards isn't as bad a people who hate Microsoft make it out to be...lol

Dude no one hates MS, we just strongly disagree in the direction they are heading and unfortunately are taking xbox with them.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

And to think, you did not even mention their debacles in the mobile phone space.

After spending 7 billion on Nokia, plus all of the other investments, they are completely dead.

Lets not forget the Zune. Great product, but some of the most inept and brain dead marketing I've ever seen, coupled with, as always for MS, being too little too late.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Someone's probably doing that very job right now - "writing down the goals of UWP for public consumption" - keyword public. They get paid to do so. The press will get their answers soon enough in a nice FAQ and then the press, enthusiast, and the luminaries in the industry will take hacks at it and the war will continue.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

The fact that they can turn off the other stores and if w10 store takes off they are incentivized to undermine the others.

It's their patented business model. Embrace and put out a offering. Extend, fund and push it till it's #1 and then use that position to extinguish competitors.

The xb1 prelaunch nonsense was them pushing the extinguish button too early.

UWP takes control of programs from users. It is geared toward more app like programs. It is part and parcel with the store. The concern is if they follow their normal 3 step nonsense then it qould exstinguish pc gaming as we know it in favor of a iOS 'ecosystem' which would be bad for us.

OK just to be fair that's how most company's are their goal is to be number 1 and that's a good thino because competition is good. Also what are you talking about them taking over pc? I haven't read anything even remotely close to what you just said. That just sounds like paranoid speculation.

 

[Shin-Ra]

You guys need to stop ruining people that want closed Windows platform.

UWP is the future, before long Sony and Nintendo will be playing catch-up. But they don't have Windows so they're screwed.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Microsoft doesn't need to explain themselves to the community at all. Their responsibilities are to their stockholders, not their customers.

This kind of bullshit mentality gave us the original XB1.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Dude no one hates MS, we just strongly disagree in the direction they are heading and unfortunately are taking xbox with them.

LOL you can't say that with a straight face...look I chose xbox this year I don't defend companies I can see the good and the bad. But I'm a casual player I like dropping in and put of games whenever I want because I'm a busy person. I don't understand what's wron with Ms putting xbox games on pc...

 

[LordRaptor]

OK just to be fair that's how most company's are their goal is to be number 1 and that's a good thino because competition is good.

There is a huge difference between companies competing on strength of product and becoming the market leader based on the feature set or value that they provide, and companies leveraging monopoly power to brute force marketshare in a market they do not fairly compete in, on either feature set or value.

 

[DeepEnigma]

LOL you can't say that with a straight face...look I chose xbox this year I don't defend companies I can see the good and the bad. But I'm a casual player I like dropping in and put of games whenever I want because I'm a busy person. I don't understand what's wron with Ms putting xbox games on pc...

ProTip: If you do not understand the topic at hand, or even do a little research as to why these articles are popping up, then one should refrain from giving an off-base opinion.

 

[JaseC]

Defend? I said Microsoft has a problem with announcing stuff prematurely with out anything to show and that the stuff they put out afterwards isn't as bad a people who hate Microsoft make it out to be...lol

It reads as a defence because UWP followed GFWL -- it's the thing "[Microsoft] put out afterwards".

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

There is a huge difference between companies competing on strength of product and becoming the market leader based on the feature set or value that they provide, and companies leveraging monopoly power to brute force marketshare in a market they do not fairly compete in, on either feature set or value.

No bro everyone that's a big company does the latter of your statement. That's why the rich stay richer. I haven't seen ms monopolize something to be the number one provider of pc games. As fAR as I know steam is number one and has very good offerings and will keep being number one.

 

[Rafy]

Is it just me or is this the "Xbox One always online/no used games" thing happening all over again but this time with UWP and PC instead?!

If so we already know how the other one ended and it was not any good for Microsoft's image.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

If only they had an event or conference happening soon where they could talk about their plans ...

Shh... let's all overreact instead!

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

ProTip: If you do not understand the topic at hand, or even do a little research as to why these articles are popping up, then one should refrain from giving an off-base opinion.

You are right I'm not sure where these articles are coming from or where ms ever said stuff like this but it sounds like speculation to me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Shh... let's all overreact instead!

Only people over-reacting are defenders trying to stifle discussions.

This is a message board, we are discussing these things. I am sure Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney have much more insight than the majority of us, and their comments, and reactions speak volumes over the past 3+ years.

But you know, speaking out as a consumer, and making your stance heard, is so over-reacting. /s

Piss off with that shit.

You are right I'm not sure where these articles are coming from or where ms ever said stuff like this but it sounds like speculation to me.

The articles are coming from what is out there now in the public arena, in action as we speak. Hence speaking up, letting them know this is not kosher to PC gamers, is our duty as consumers.

Speculation is a part of the discourse, not unlike most threads on here.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Only people over-reacting are defenders trying to stifle discussions.

This is a message board, we are discussing these things. I am sure Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney have much more insight than the majority of us, and their comments, and reactions speak volumes over the past 3+ years.

But you know, speaking out as a consumer, and making your stance heard, is so over-reacting.

Piss off with that shit.

Sweeney's rant was in fact an overreaction, he even basically owned up to it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705802742883864576

I'd rather wait til the full story is out there before yelling that the sky is falling.

 

[AncientDiety]

LOL you can't say that with a straight face...look I chose xbox this year I don't defend companies I can see the good and the bad. But I'm a casual player I like dropping in and put of games whenever I want because I'm a busy person. I don't understand what's wron with Ms putting xbox games on pc...

You choose xbox? Real shocker.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Pro tip: you can just keep buying games on steam, problem solved.

 

[AncientDiety]

Shh... let's all overreact instead!

Windows 10 store has been out since 2015......it's not an overreaction. MS is incompetent in their messaging at the very least.

 

[JoeyJungle]

And to think, you did not even mention their debacles in the mobile phone space.

After spending 7 billion on Nokia, plus all of the other investments, they are completely dead.

This. + their mobile adventure that crashed into a mountain. Kinect and gaming-power-of-the-cloud also deserves a mention.

It hurts too much to talk about their phone stuff, I still can't believe how they did J Allard like that. Kin never woulda sold, but they coulda given it an extra 6 months and been a cheap flagship for the Windows Phone OS. Instead they released it 8 months early, and then canned it after 2 weeks on the market.

<3 J, he didn't deserve that.

 

[jabberwocker]

Only people over-reacting are defenders trying to stifle discussions.

This is a message board, we are discussing these things. I am sure Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney have much more insight than the majority of us, and their comments, and reactions speak volumes over the past 3+ years.

But you know, speaking out as a consumer, and making your stance heard, is so over-reacting.

Piss off with that shit.

Your treating speculation as fact. That's the problem with these discussions around this. As if everything is an absolute then squashing the idea of a wait and see approach when we really don't know much at all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Your treating speculation as fact. That's the problem with these discussions around this. As if everything is an absolute then squashing the idea of a wait and see approach when we really don't know much at all.

Is Windows Store out now, since last year?

Are there not restrictions at the moment, that have been this way since it launched LAST YEAR?

Seems pretty cut and dry to discuss, as fact at this time. Thus discussing alternatives or what if's are the whole point of speculation and discourse.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

You choose xbox? Real shocker.

So that's all you are going to say? Yes I like the occasional angry message I get from people hating my gamertag doesn't mean I'm a fan boy lol

 

[jabberwocker]

Is Windows Store out now, since last year?

Are there not restrictions at the moment, that have been this way since it launched LAST YEAR?

Seems pretty cut and dry to discuss, as fact.

But these are MS Xbox IPs. Not third party which is the majority of the complaints

 

[Doug Heffernan]

You choose xbox? Real shocker.

Someone has different tastes in consumer devices than you do, shocker.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Is Windows Store out now, since last year?

Are there not restrictions at the moment, that have been this way since it launched LAST YEAR?

Seems pretty cut and dry to discuss, as fact.

But you guys are acting as if it's the end of the world and as if steam is going to die or something. Just keep playing on steam and ignore the windows store easy as that.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

But these are MS Xbox IPs. Not third party which is the majority of the complaints

Exactly

 

[DeepEnigma]

But you guys are acting as if it's the end of the world and as if steam is going to die or something. Just keep playing on steam and ignore the windows store easy as that.

Who is acting like this is the 'end of the world'?

Hahaha, ok.

Preemptive discussion based on what is out there, in the current form, is very warranted.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Problem is that they have no vision. Microsoft has many factions inside it focused on different things. While the server team took a left turn and just announced they will have the Microsoft Server products run on Linux, ending Windows exclusivity after decades(?) of being locked to the platform, the Microsoft Store people probably want exclusivity over UWP to force people to use store to get their revenue up, and the games people see that they're going to sell half the numbers that PS4 does throughout the generation and are trying to take over the Store to mitigate their bad performance.

On top of that you have the people in charge of third party relations is doing a bad job of ensuring timed exclusivity (after the Rise of the Tomb Raider bomb, not many publishers are going to be signing those types of contracts). I saw more ads from Squeenix for the PC version than I saw from what I expected to be the combined marketing budget of Squeenix and MS for the XBone version. Completely terrible deal for both parties, but I think it severely damaged MS's reputation for any other parties considering timed exclusivity for games. Now it seems like they're focused mainly on timed DLC, which basically nobody cares about.

The team in charge of first party probably has their hands tied by 8 different upper management people telling them conflicting information. One of them probably said "We need a Minecraft!", which led to valuable first party resources being wasted on Project Spark. Someone was able to say "We need a unqiue game, something that will make our platform stand out aside from the usual FPS and TPS," lobby enough to resurrect the Phantom Dust franchise, which was apparently looked at by someone who asked "How many millions will this sell? One, maybe? Well we've already got Sunset Overdrive, that's unique enough" and then canned it. Someone looked at Lionhead and said "God, Fable The Journey really tanked. Wait - we have another Fable game in development? Well it must be almost don- It's online?! With continuous development?! Cancel it! In fact, cancel the whole studio! Buncha morons!"

The team in charge of digital games on the XBONE as far as I know still has their parity clause is still in place, the purpose of that being to encourage devs to release first on XBONE or at the same time on XBONE. With developers placing more priority on the PS4 version because there's more PS4's in wild, the XBONE digital team's parity clause is effectively preventing developers from releasing games on the XBONE unless they take significant effort to create new content for the XBONE release.

The people in charge of studio management has successfully closed pretty much every studio they possibly can, leaving them with basically no first party except for 343, Rare, Mojang, the Forza team, and the team that got handed Gears of War. Their only second party projects are Recore, Quantum Break, Scalebound, and Crackdown 3. So they're left with just a handful of XBONE exclusive titles over the next 2-3 years.

Phil's looking around going "We've got no exclusives, we don't have a steady flow of digital games, and our console is weaker. How the fuck did we go from the 360 to this!?", and now looking at some kind of bandaid via PC or an Xbox 1.5 or cutting the generation short and trying to spin an Xbox 2 w/backward support (shifting development resources almost entirely to Xbox 2, abandoning XBONE) as an incremental upgrade in the same console cycle.

It's really incredible how so many different groups inside MS have managed to damage MS games division so heavily. Especially contrasting with how Sony's managed their games division, by catering to third parties while keeping their biggest first party studios working on showcase titles. Nintendo's been terrible about catering to third parties aside from just a handful (Atlus, Capcom, Squeenix, Level 5), but because they basically never shut down first party studios, they've been able to tread water through the disastrous Wii U gen and less-than-stellar 3DS gen by continually releasing really good exclusives. It's so weird to see MS hardly focusing on first party at all aside from Forza and Halo, and not catering to third party either. They're basically just left with worse versions of PS4 games, and now that they're suffereing from the consequences they're scrambling for a solution.

The MS team is so disparate and full of conflicting goals, each group or micro-group of a project is trying to come up with half-assed bandaids for the problem they see in right in front of them, ignoring the other thousand cuts the company's currently suffering from. They need to completely restructure the organization.

Sums this problem with Microsoft as a whole, especially when talking about their 1st party exclusives. It's basically very slim compared to both Nintendo & Sony.

Part of the reason why they were able to get away with less exclusives, etc. last gen, is because that Xbox 360 was popular in comparison to PS3 & because of mostly superior multiplatform games on that console compared to PS3. Take away the better multiplatform games, & you would see the scenario that is going on right now with Xbox One. Add to the fact that they have fewer 1st party selection of games besides Halo, Gears & Forza, & you have little to no reason to own a Xbox One today whatsoever when you can go out & buy a PS4 with a lot of 1st party games and superior multiplatform games.

And to add insult to injury, most of their 2nd party exclusives are coming out on PC, which will give PC gamers less incentive to own a Xbox One.

 

[LordRaptor]

Sweeney's rant was in fact an overreaction, he even basically owned up to it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705802742883864576

That response is not the "Oh, I am completely mistaken in my assumptions, I take back all that I said" response you think it is.

It's actually an "Oh, I'm wrong am I? Please give the technical details on how what you propose is possible, and commit to a timeline for doing so."

 

[Shin-Ra]

Sweeney's rant was in fact an overreaction, he even basically owned up to it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705802742883864576

I'd rather wait til the full story is out there before yelling that the sky is falling.

What's he owning up to there?

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Who is acting like this is the 'end of the world'?

Hahaha, ok.

Preemptive discussion based on what is out there, in the current form, is very warranted.

Just hyperbole on my part kinda how you guys are over reactING to this whole thing with out getting the news from the source.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That response is not the "Oh, I am completely mistaken in my assumptions, I take back all that I said" response you think it is.

It's actually an "Oh, I'm wrong am I? Please give the technical details on how what you propose is possible, and commit to a timeline for doing so."

Gotta love the spin machine.

Just hyperbole on my part kinda how you guys are over reactING to this whole thing with out getting the news from the source.

You are adding nothing to the conversation, only trying to derail with admitted hyperbole, etc..

The store has been out for almost a year. It's restrictions have not changed, thus it gives us plenty to discuss.

Moving on from responding to a wall.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Gotta love the spin machine.



You are adding nothing to the conversation, only trying to derail with admitted hyperbole, etc..

The store has been out for almost a year. It's restrictions have not changed, thus it gives us plenty to discuss.

Moving on from responding to a wall.

A wall? Haha yo I'm just trying to find out why you are over reactING to this. It's just to poop on ms right? Because you have steam and every time that's mentioned you completely ignore it and don't acknowledge the fact that even if this UWP does suck you don't have to use it! Use steam and if you really do want to play an exclusive ms game then buy it and play it. If anyone's a wall it is you sir an angry wall.

 

[JaggedSac]

As I've said before, if they have a solution just waiting to be announced that solves everyones problems, why the fuck release Gears in a broken state on a broken storefront as a broken UWA?
Nobody outside of MS knew its release date - apparently including the software interoperability experts from AMD and NVidia - so delaying until it wasn't a huge clusterfuck stealth launch, you know, makes sense from every perspective.

So why didn't they do that?

Time, money, manpower.

What issues did Gears launch with? From what I am aware of, there was a downloading issue which who knows if they even knew that existed before release, and AMD performance issues. I'm sure AMD was planning on having that ready for the internal release date MS wanted for Gears. It just released and apparently helps a great deal.

If you are talking about issues such as mGPU, vsync, etc. That certainly isn't something they are going to worry about before releasing a game.

 

[JaggedSac]

Gotta love the spin machine.



You are adding nothing to the conversation, only trying to derail with admitted hyperbole, etc..

The store has been out for almost a year. It's restrictions have not changed, thus it gives us plenty to discuss.

Moving on from responding to a wall.

Actually, they originally only had a developer option for side loading, they added the specific non developer side loading option and made it default after release and consumer complaints.

 

[Papacheeks]

LOL you can't say that with a straight face...look I chose xbox this year I don't defend companies I can see the good and the bad. But I'm a casual player I like dropping in and put of games whenever I want because I'm a busy person. I don't understand what's wron with Ms putting xbox games on pc...

Do you have any clue on what's going on with UWA? With recent releases on windows store, on how a game called GEARS OF WAR:ULTIMATE EDITION running 10 year old code ran like shit on AMD cards?
How that if you had a G-SYNC monitor you couldn't use it? How if you had SLI/Crossfire you couldn't use it?

How bringing windows 10 store apps to xbox one is bridging the gap of the XBox being a console than a device with windows store?
How they want to in the near future have refreshes like PC boxes that will add work for developers to program/code for? WHich goes into Tim Sweeney's (little over reaction) rant on how UWA may cause a lot of issues with developers as it's a very closed development process?

DO you understand why there were dev's on previous threads who are addressing their concerns as to the news about MS's future plans? And how this article reinforces that we have too many unknowns, and no response from ms about how this will evolve, or how this may impact development?

Because that's what's been discussed for several threads including this one.

That's why people are trying to help you not get banned. Because of your spread of "It doesn't affect me so it's not bad" attitude and ignoring the discussion people are having about this and how it in the long run affects xbox which you seemed so adamant in defending.

 

[Nokterian]

A wall? Haha yo I'm just trying to find out why you are over reactING to this. It's just to poop on ms right? Because you have steam and every time that's mentioned you completely ignore it and don't acknowledge the fact that even if this UWP does suck you don't have to use it! Use steam and if you really do want to play an exclusive ms game then buy it and play it. If anyone's a wall it is you sir an angry wall.

Looks like you are still talking to a wall since you don't know what it is about.

 

[LordRaptor]

Time, money, manpower.

My question is more of a timeline question, than a "why is software ever released broken?" question.
The Gears release seems to have been incredibly rushed, but Gears PC has never had a public ship date, never had a marketing campaign to tie into or any other external commitment that it had to be launched when it was; its timeline was entirely of MS's own choosing.

It's why I question if these answers are forthcoming, why release now? What was the urgency?

e:
I mean, I guess its possible based on what happened to Lionhead that The Coalition were straight up told "You release this week or you're all fucking fired"

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Looks like you are still talking to a wall since you don't know what it is about.

It's about you guys being angry and thinking that UWP is going to suck and the xbox games you want to play will either be trash or not have the same freedom as games from steam.

 

[m_dorian]

Sweeney's rant was in fact an overreaction, he even basically owned up to it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705802742883864576

I'd rather wait til the full story is out there before yelling that the sky is falling.

Great! Do so.

I 'll be more than happy, in fact i 'll be relieved to find out that i was overreacting, but just in case, considering MS's flawed past, may i continue to express my concerns about the issue?

 

[NullPointer]

Microsoft may have no plans or intention of slaughtering the goose that lays such golden eggs; but if it's going to keep hanging around the barn with a meat cleaver in its hands, it needs to start explaining itself much more clearly, directly and honestly than it has been up until now.

Well put.

 

[Synth]

With recent releases on windows store, on how a game called GEARS OF WAR:ULTIMATE EDITION running 10 year old code ran like shit on AMD cards?

The rest of your post was all good. But this point here, really doesn't have anything to do with the store or UWP.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's about you guys being angry and thinking that UWP is going to suck and the xbox games you want to play will either be trash or not have the same freedom as games from steam.

That is not what the conversation is about, and since you admittedly said you do not know what it is about, you are just trolling/warring at this point.

Well put.

Indeed.

 

[vcc]

OK just to be fair that's how most company's are their goal is to be number 1 and that's a good thino because competition is good. Also what are you talking about them taking over pc? I haven't read anything even remotely close to what you just said. That just sounds like paranoid speculation.

It's history not paranoia. As recent as 2013 when MS pulled the trigger on anti-consumer policies because they thought they had the #1 console position locked. They aren't a company that is okay with being #1 with competitors. Historically they've pushed other companies out and been #1 because they killed their competition through any means possible. As soon as they're #1 their products get super expensive and stagnate.

They have all the mechanics in place to do so with store fronts IF w10 store ever takes off. UWP has these hooks built in. If UWP becomes the standard it is a ever present threat to the other players. With a simple update they could lock them out.

We're looking at it; know their history; see the mechanisms in place; and we ask the obvious question and push back on it. If UWP becomes .net v2 then great. If UWP stays as is it becomes a hanging threat to the other players in the market includign the publishers and other partners. This is what Durante, Time Sweeney and others are concerned about.

 

[Uno Venova]

Great! Do so.

I 'll be more than happy, in fact i 'll be relieved to find out that i was overreacting, but just in case, considering MS's flawed past, may i continue to express my concerns about the issue?

You should be able to, but there's a small group in every single thread who seem to boil at even the suggestion of MS switching course.

 

[Nokterian]

It's about you guys being angry and thinking that UWP is going to suck and the xbox games you want to play will either be trash or not have the same freedom as games from steam.

Not really this is on how UWP can destimate on what PC is for 20+ years a open platform we are complaining that microsoft wants to do a garden that is closed so we cannot access the files or to mod the games. And you are here more astroturfing and trolling at this part not knowing what it is about. So please type something meaningful adding to the conversation or just go away.

 

[XboxGo2Skype]

Do you have any clue on what's going on with UWA? With recent releases on windows store, on how a game called GEARS OF WAR:ULTIMATE EDITION running 10 year old code ran like shit on AMD cards?
How that if you had a G-SYNC monitor you couldn't use it? How if you had SLI/Crossfire you couldn't use it?

How bringing windows 10 store apps to xbox one is bridging the gap of the XBox being a console than a device with windows store?
How they want to in the near future have refreshes like PC boxes that will add work for developers to program/code for? WHich goes into Tim Sweeney's (little over reaction) rant on how UWA may cause a lot of issues with developers as it's a very closed development process?

DO you understand why there were dev's on previous threads who are addressing their concerns as to the news about MS's future plans? And how this article reinforces that we have too many unknowns, and no response from ms about how this will evolve, or how this may impact development?

Because that's what's been discussed for several threads including this one.

That's why people are trying to help you not get banned. Because of your spread of "It doesn't affect me so it's not bad" attitude and ignoring the discussion people are having about this and how it in the long run affects xbox which you seemed so adamant in defending.

I'm not spreading any of that, if anything this post was one that answered my question which is why are people so pissed. All I got from everyone else was calling me a fan boy. So thank you I don't care about defending xbox or m's I just didn't understand and was being annoyed by the responses these smart assessment where giving me.