Devolution
Member
Sounds like the cons need to ditch volunteers and hire actual vetted dudes.
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Group wants anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con
- Thread starter Exile20
- Start date
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LyleLanley
Banned
It won't be perfect but just having such rules in place, and made very clear to all attendees, will surely help cut down on the amount of creep shots.
The bigger ones have no excuse not to.
That's it right there.
I assume this kind of bad behavior does happen at adult conventions like Exxotica, though. PEACE.
Gentleman Jack
Member
The general competence of AX administration needs to go up if enforcement of harassment rules a con at the los angeles convention center is too much for them to handle.
Definitely the sort of thing you need a paid security staff for.
Omegasquash
Member
A-yup. Nothing wrong with hiring a few strongarms to scare people off of creeping, or to make a few examples of them by kicking them the fuck out.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Guys, be honest, if a girl walks around 90% naked, would you at least do a double take? I know I would.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
So if you were walking through a mall, and someone kept taking your photograph you'd be okay with it? No matter the location/circumstance, its rude, among other things, to take pictures of people without asking.
Also, what the hell at the people actually saying that people in cosplay know what they are getting into.
Here's a useful post. If a policy is something you don't agree with, definitely don't ask the event organizers to change it or discuss what policies would be most effective. Just get over it.
BattleMonkey
Member
You don't need a policy at comic con, theirs laws against this kind of shit, just report it to the police instead of expecting some pimple faced volunteer at a con to have any say in the manner.
Shockingly "doing a double take" isn't at all what is being complained about.
It's one thing to look, but that's a whole world of difference between being a creep.
When people are at an event with thousands of fans dressed in all sorts of costumes, I would imagine them to exercise a bit more restraint or otherwise not be shocked if they see a lot of skin. But as others have said, simply looking isn't the core issue here.
Omegasquash
Member
See, you can do a double take, and even say "god DAMN she's fine" in your head, turn around, and keep playing that game or chatting it up with your friends. There's a difference between that and being creepy, and I'd bet most people know it too.
"But the clothes she was wearing that night meant she was looking for sex so it wasn't rape your honor!"
Trigger Warning
Member
Wow, way to ridicule women because of their weight and appearance. What a hateful person.
Well then let's not assume this is endemic to the process of hiring labour for conventions. If you are collecting hundreds or thousands of people in one place, a big part of your strategy should be dedicated to their safety. If conventions are at a size that they're attracting creepy people, they need to step up the amount of money they're spending on their security.
I don't think that there's too much of a debate about groping and physical contact in general. It's harrassment and it shouldn't be tolerated. Full stop.
Regarding taking pics, I always saw conventions as a public space. This is no intimate event or whatsoever, we are talking about crowds of thousand people here, something more akin to a concert.
You can be unwillingly photographed / looked at by mostly anyone on the street or inside a crowd. Not to mention that a lot of cosplayers do like to show theirselves off and should have the right to do it if they wish to.
So in conclussion, I think that a total photography ban would be foolish and almost un-forceable, but that "photograp zones" a la Japanese conventions (or entire pavillions if they are easier to control) could be a more doable solution that could satisfy everyone involved.
Regarding taking pics, I always saw conventions as a public space. This is no intimate event or whatsoever, we are talking about crowds of thousand people here, something more akin to a concert.
You can be unwillingly photographed / looked at by mostly anyone on the street or inside a crowd. Not to mention that a lot of cosplayers do like to show theirselves off and should have the right to do it if they wish to.
So in conclussion, I think that a total photography ban would be foolish and almost un-forceable, but that "photograp zones" a la Japanese conventions (or entire pavillions if they are easier to control) could be a more doable solution that could satisfy everyone involved.
I agree 100%. But I think a lot of that money would go to training said people, if they continued to hire those not from the security profession already.
The way I see it, you either spend more money and hire existing security firms to handle it in conjunction with the existing convention hall security or you spend more money and time on volunteer staff, which includes a lot more training on real world situations that happen all the time.
In either case, you're spending more money on security.
You are being constantly photographed in a mall. Why would I care?
Well, one is completely unintrusive, and when it comes to venues like malls, there is usually a legal agreement somewhere that by entering the premises you're consenting to being photographed and that the results may be used for advertisement purposes.
And the other... ranges from people taking candid photos to straight up stalker-ish behavior.
So there's a difference, not only in terms of legality but how the photographee's experience is impacted by the photographer.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I was at SDCC on Saturday and I was standing around on a street corner outside next to a girl dressed in what was I guess supposed to be Wonder Woman, although I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman doesn't go outside in her underwear. Some dude in the crowd on the corner yells "WHORE!" and she went back and chewed him the fuck out, which was the right thing to do.
So yeah, it happens, but it always seemed the like the girls in really revealing outfits are mostly standing around to do pictures in the first place and not just trying to get around the convention so you don't really notice the creepyness as much.
So yeah, it happens, but it always seemed the like the girls in really revealing outfits are mostly standing around to do pictures in the first place and not just trying to get around the convention so you don't really notice the creepyness as much.
He isn't wrong though.
Again, I mentioned prior I don't have that mindset. The most photos I've taken at conventions are of booths or set-ups. When I took any of those photographs I owed no obligation to inform the people in the immediate area that I was taking a photograph.
If someone is actively following someone, and taking harassing photographs, it's up to the venue to have some sort of system in place to log such reports and information.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
But not by a random stranger for his personal benefit. There's a difference between security camera footage and a random person taking your photograph.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The chance of them doing "photography zones" is something like zero. If you've ever attended SDCC, taking pictures of all the crazy stuff is partly why the thing is popular. Not to mention, its illegal, as the convention center space is considered a public space, even if you pay money to get in.
This thread is specifically about instituting such a system, so no, it isn't correct. Any post consisting of "get over it" is dumb in this context.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I remember randomly seeing some creepy video of a guy heavily breathing with his camera on focusing on one girl and you could see she was looking at him in the corner of her eye..wondering why he was just standing there looking at her for awhile...he finally got the nerve to ask her for picture and she was like "you're so creepy you were just standing there " and he walk away syaing nothing heavily breathing
I don't have a problem with the photography. That's going to happen regardless of their security or rules they try and implement.
It's the groping and verbal harassment that needs to be addressed by the organizers as this seems to come up every year.
I also think one good beat down on someone found to grab an ass or boob would due wonders for this consent campaign. It's the sad truth.
It's the groping and verbal harassment that needs to be addressed by the organizers as this seems to come up every year.
I also think one good beat down on someone found to grab an ass or boob would due wonders for this consent campaign. It's the sad truth.
How do you know the security guard is not in the room jacking off to me? (lol).
Is a photo not for my benefit if I ask for permision 1st? Such a strange metric. Pretty much every photo I take is for my own personal benefit.
...there is no such system in place though. Until one is effectively implemented, then you are going to have to accept the fact that you might have photographs of you taken for the time being. Again, the grey area here is massive.
Like it's been stated countless times, a private event has the option to do a variety of things. No different from a sporting event (which millions of people take photographs at, and then plaster on social media). Most tickets state on them that the operators of the venue have the right to revoke your ticket.
Wait, really? Well that complicates things...
Never visited SDCC, but at Denver Comic Con I always asked for permission before photos.
Kinda hard to hold a convention with a dozen or so attendants.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Its about respect and common decency though.
That's what we're talking about and I don't understand your point. A problem has been identified and in the course of discussing solutions, someone had come along to say "get over it." How is that correct or literally anything but entirely useless?
It's a convention, you're basically submitt to have your photo taken by just being there. As for grabbing and all that, unacceptable, but if you're wearing a costume and people to ask to take a photo, it's up to your set up ground rules because most people don't really care if you grab them around the waist or over the shoulder, etc.. Grabbing the ass or catcalling? Unacceptable.
Oppo
Member
It's not something you can effectively prohibit in a free public society. You'd eliminate news gathering, just for starters.
Intent? why does intent factor in? how do you stop a remote security guard from zooming in "disrespectfully"?
there's a reason the line is drawn at "reasonable expectation of privacy". now if you are talking something like France's "moral rights to self image" for commercial gain, that's certainly worth discussing. but too many people have this strange idea that it is illegal to photograph someone in public and that's not true for good reasons.
Harassment and making others uncomfortable isn't something you can prohibit?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Lot of assumed human beings in here who are more concerned with what's legal than with what's decent.
These are personal morals and should not be attempted to be enforced on top of the law.
I mean is it common decency to walk around half naked? Maybe they should ban reveling clothing?
You are basically saying I should be able to do whatever I want, but other people must respect my wishes to not be photographed or in extreme cases even LOOKED at for too long? And I should have the power to get someone ejected from the convention based on my personal feelings that they are acting "creepy" towards me.
Ragingnight
Member
AX was an extra level of skimpy cosplay due to kill la kill but from what I saw...most people were great about it. There was this one girl who was super revealing and played up to it, but it was really funny because there were 2 dudes cosplayed as the same character and one of them was definitely on the heavy side.
funny enough, it was the girl that suggested the ass-shot
I think its just about people being decent, and not encroaching on people's private space. I mean you have girls wearing this and are more than willing to get a picture of them taken as long as you are polite and ask. So why be a dick and start groping them.
funny enough, it was the girl that suggested the ass-shot
I think its just about people being decent, and not encroaching on people's private space. I mean you have girls wearing this and are more than willing to get a picture of them taken as long as you are polite and ask. So why be a dick and start groping them.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How are you making an honest comparison about decency between cosplaying as a favorite character to people harassing or molesting others?
We are talking about different types of decency here.
I'm not stuck on those three words. I read everything else he mentioned, as did others in the thread.
"Get over it" might not be productive in this discussion, you are correct.
Oppo
Member
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Above the law? Please. And yes, if you are being harassed then you absolutely should have the power to have someone kicked out.
It is not impossible to prohibit making others uncomfortable through intentionally surreptitious or rude picture taking, no.
The post said almost nothing else. Ok, they don't agree with some of the solutions. Why? Then that vague, unspecified disagreement is followed up with the get over it.
Useless and unnecessary.
Oppo
Member
but if someone snaps a photo if you, thAts not harassment.
following them around and making comments is arguably harassment but last I checked being a paparazzo in the US is not illegal. simply distasteful ( and I would agree with that).
i
really? How on earth are you going to enforce that?KHarvey16 said:
of course I am not referring to stupid up skirts or anything like that but simple photography.
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