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[Apocryphon]

People don't seem to be comprehending the advancements made here.

Basically, Epic have made a mistake here in setting this showcase up with GT.TV because there's nothing here that concerns the average gamer. The art direction wasn't a particularly wise choice either. The dev walkthrough is much more impressive and does a better job of detailing improvements, but I can't help thinking that they should have just turned the UE3 Samaritan demo into a playable piece in UE4.

 

[Zombie James]

Empowering artists and having programmers focus on other areas of the game is the big draw here.

 

[Erebus]

Is the Elemental U4 demo available in higher quality video anywhere?

 

[-SD-]

Is the Elemental U4 demo available in higher quality video anywhere?

http://international.download.nvidi...al/videos/UnrealEngine4ElementalCinematic.mov

 

[Erebus]

http://international.download.nvidi...al/videos/UnrealEngine4ElementalCinematic.mov

Downloading. Thanks!

 

[raven777]

http://international.download.nvidi...al/videos/UnrealEngine4ElementalCinematic.mov

Thanks. Finally great quality video.

The more I watch it on higher quality video, it seems more impressive. I really like the first 15 seconds, and the mountain scene. But the I still don't like the dark scenes and lava.

 

[ickingfudiot]

Expected this reaction when I first saw this demo.

It's an interesting choice because it's so developer targeted. The actual content is not as visually striking as Samaritan but as a developer, all the little things they demonstrate and call out are really exciting (especially after working with UE3 for 6 years). It was a really great demo for GDC but I'm a little bit surprised they used this as their "world premiere UE4" demo for the reasons some posters are listing.

As a gamer it should be more exciting to you guys that this tech enables some really cool things that currently just never happen in games or get faked (at great expense, and painfully). Now anybody with UE4 can do it without much setup. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[apana]

How much of the industry uses unreal engine? All the first party studios and some notable third party studios use their own tech right? I assume it is cheaper for them and they get just as good results.

 

[Represent.]

any high quality screen?

gifs?

<_<

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Art != Tech.

Besides, remember that this demonstrations are meant for developers, people that can actually appreciate what's going on. That's why they've been showing them at GDC first.

I'm fixing to watch it, downloading the video above, but if someone said something was going to make something look like crap, and it's aired on TV, it should include art.

 

[StudioTan]

Expected this reaction when I first saw this demo.

It's an interesting choice because it's so developer targeted. The actual content is not as visually striking as Samaritan but as a developer, all the little things they demonstrate and call out are really exciting (especially after working with UE3 for 6 years). It was a really great demo for GDC but I'm a little bit surprised they used this as their "world premiere UE4" demo for the reasons some posters are listing.

As a gamer it should be more exciting to you guys that this tech enables some really cool things that currently just never happen in games or get faked (at great expense, and painfully). Now anybody with UE4 can do it without much setup. Pretty cool stuff.

After reading this thread I'm thinking the reason is that to anyone who works with 3D graphics or gaming tech this demo is such an obvious leap forward that it's hard to fathom that everyone won't be seeing the same things they are. Apparently that's not the case.

When people say it's not impressive I get the same feelings as when people would tell me they couldn't see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray. All I can say is "But....just look at it! How is it not obvious?"

 

[Mxrz]

Next gen is gonna have lots of rain, snow, and fire. I'm okay with that.

 

[-SD-]

any high quality screen?

Scroll to the bottom: http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...-next-gen-gtx-680-powered-real-time-graphics/

 

[Sibylus]

So what i get from the comments here: lighting and particles are the improvements people wanted to see for next-gen? really? I mean, i would like to see how good human faces, hair etc. look and render, how they act and behave, how believable the movements and animations are. but hey, we get improved lighting and particles. yeah, i guess.

Que? Lighting is what ties the entire aesthetic of a game together, it improves everything down to the aforementioned human faces, hair, etc. Forest for the trees by definition.

People don't seem to be comprehending the advancements made here.

Basically, Epic have made a mistake here in setting this showcase up with GT.TV because there's nothing here that concerns the average gamer. The art direction wasn't a particularly wise choice either. The dev walkthrough is much more impressive and does a better job of detailing improvements, but I can't help thinking that they should have just turned the UE3 Samaritan demo into a playable piece in UE4.

Yeah, it's a little puzzling how the cinematic demo basically showed off none of the engine's dynamism outside of the lava flow and particles, though I guess for three months they wanted to bite off something they could chew to utter completion.

 

[RadioactiveLobster]

http://youtu.be/NUvLoFbw1wE?hd=1

10 Minute walkthrough of some of the Engine Features with Alan Willard

 

[raven777]

After reading this thread I'm thinking the reason is that to anyone who works with 3D graphics or gaming tech this demo is such an obvious leap forward that it's hard to fathom that everyone won't be seeing the same things they are. Apparently that's not the case.

When people say it's not impressive I get the same feelings as when people would tell me they couldn't see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray. All I can say is "But....just look at it! How is it not obvious?"

I think this is the case. i have almost no knowledge in these techs, so when I saw the 10 minute walkthrough, I couldn't understand/appreciate the tech.

Probably it is technically a lot better than Samaritan demo, but for me it didn't look that much better (other than the lighting in the beginning and the particles.)

But I can see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray clearly though

 

[funkystudent]

Watched it.


Mostly it seems like its just epic getting up to date with more recent tech from a development perspective. (live editing and more dynamic lighting)


Graphically it is nice but we cant guarantee finished games will look that good. Those UE3 tech demos from 04 still have better shadows and lighting then every since UE3 game ever released.

 

[StudioTan]

I think this is the case. i have almost no knowledge in these techs, so when I saw the 10 minute walkthrough, I couldn't understand/appreciate the tech.

Probably it is technically a lot better than Samaritan demo, but for me it didn't look that much better (other than the lighting in the beginning and the particles.)

But I can see the difference between DVD and Blu-ray clearly though

Yeah, the DVD/Blu-ray thing is obviously not exactly the same but what I'm saying is it's one of those things where it's hard to explain WHY something is so much better if the other person simple isn't seeing what you're seeing. At that point you have to start picking out specific things for them to focus on in order for them to understand what they should be looking for and then it invariably ends with the comment from the other person that "if you need to point things out then it's not really that much different is it?". Except that it is lol.

Watched it.


Mostly it seems like its just epic getting up to date with more recent tech from a development perspective. (live editing and more dynamic lighting)


Graphically it is nice but we cant guarantee finished games will look that good. Those UE3 tech demos from 04 still have better shadows and lighting then every since UE3 game ever released.

ALL the lighting in that demo is dynamic. There is no pre-baked lighting at all.

 

[linko9]

Honestly, that didn't look all that good to me, but my opinion was probably influenced by the terrible art direction. The FF "Agni's Philosolphy" and even Star Wars 1313 look much better to me. The lava especially looked rather unrealistic, and the falling rocks looked pretty bad: very Nvidia Physx-esque (pretty much the same effects are on display in Alice: Madness returns on the PC). There are many current-gen games that look miles better than that to me, though that's of course taking art direction into account. I'm sure this engine will allow for much better looking games, but so far I'm not impressed.

 

[raven777]

Yeah, the DVD/Blu-ray thing is obviously not exactly the same but what I'm saying is it's one of those things where it's hard to explain WHY something is so much better if the other person simple isn't seeing what you're seeing. At that point you have to start picking out specific things for them to focus on in order for them to understand what they should be looking for and then it invariably ends with the comment from the other person that "if you need to point things out then it's not really that much different is it?". Except that it is lol.




ALL the lighting in that demo is dynamic. There is no pre-baked lighting at all.

So since you seem knowledgeable in these techs, I am curious that is this actually good enough to make Samaritan look like crap, like Mark Reign said (he said that, right?)

Also, what do you think is the chance for next PS/Xbox to run this in similar level?

Just to make it clear, I am not trying to argue or anything, I am really asking because I don't know these stuff well.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Finally got to see the vids and good god im just floored. Next-gen is gonna be insane.

 

[StudioTan]

So since you seem knowledgeable in these techs, I am curious that is this actually good enough to make Samaritan look like crap, like Mark Reign said (he said that, right?)

Also, what do you think is the chance for next PS/Xbox to run this in similar level?

Just to make it clear, I am not trying to argue or anything, I am really asking because I don't know these stuff well.

I'm certainly not an expert on the tech, so hopefully someone else can jump in there. I look at it from the perspective of an artist and 3D modeller, so I'm used to looking at the world in a way many people don't bother thinking about.

So for example one of the things I see when I watch the demo is how impressive the lighting is. The global illumination and indirect lighting tech is amazing. Like think about your room during the day time. There is sun coming in the window but the whole room is bright, not just the area where the sunlight hits. Why is that? It's because that light is bouncing off all the surfaces in the room. That is indirect lighting and it's how we're used to seeing the world. Also what happens is that the colour from objects in the room influence how everything looks. So if you have a white room with 1 red wall, the whole room will have a red cast because of the light bouncing off that wall. They show this in the developer walkthrough where he turns on and off the indirect lighting and also shows how changing material and colour on objects affects the way other surfaces look in the scene. Traditionally you would cheat this by placing a red light behind where that wall would be, but what they are showing is completely dynamic and very natural.

Watch in the video when the lava starts flowing and how it lights everything around it in an extremely realistic way. So even if you watch this video and think " yeah yeah, generic demon in a crumbling room, I've seen it, boring!" you have to look beyond what the subject of the video is and look at what is actually happening in the scene. Then you need start thinking about how these things will apply to other genres. When everything in the scene affects the lighting of the room you all of a sudden have a much more realistic sense of actually being there.

That's not to say that some of this tech doesn't exist in other current engines, just not to this extent and I'll also say the Square demo was equally impressive.

As far as your other other question that I have no doubt they've developed this while keeping in mind what the next generation consoles will be capable of. There is a LOT of optimization that can be done when you only have to worry about a single hardware configuration like in a console.

 

[Forsaken82]

So since you seem knowledgeable in these techs, I am curious that is this actually good enough to make Samaritan look like crap, like Mark Reign said (he said that, right?)

Also, what do you think is the chance for next PS/Xbox to run this in similar level?

Just to make it clear, I am not trying to argue or anything, I am really asking because I don't know these stuff well.

This entirely depends on how powerful the systems end up. You can't really put an estimate on the possibility if you have no idea what direction they plan on going.

 

[apana]

Honestly, that didn't look all that good to me, but my opinion was probably influenced by the terrible art direction. The FF "Agni's Philosolphy" and even Star Wars 1313 look much better to me. The lava especially looked rather unrealistic, and the falling rocks looked pretty bad: very Nvidia Physx-esque (pretty much the same effects are on display in Alice: Madness returns on the PC). There are many current-gen games that look miles better than that to me, though that's of course taking art direction into account. I'm sure this engine will allow for much better looking games, but so far I'm not impressed.

I think there was too much generic fantasy in there. Wish they would collaborate with other companies to get us tech demos with content we would be interested to see. Can you imagine if Epic recreated some of System Shock 2 with this new engine? People would be going nuts, well at least I would. No next gen Shodan is an abomination as far as I am concerned.

Another neat thing would be if they had created a Zelda type demo where you have a kid with a sword going into a cave and meeting up with a dragon. Next gen dragon would blow people's minds.

 

[Dan Yo]

I had no idea watch dogs and 1313 were supposed to be for next generation. I hope next generation games are bit more impressive than that. I've seen Crysis 1 footage that still impresses me more than those games.

The Agnis demo does look a bit beyond what we have now. That, in 1080p, with large environments and a stable frame rate is definitely an acceptable leap I'd say. The UE4 stuff is more impressive in the physics and particle effect demonstrations than what I've seen in the environments, character models, and textures front. I hope that sees more of a jump before next gen too.

If this is the stuff we get next gen, then sure it'll look better than the games we have now, but not a full generational leap better. After 8 years of waiting I would hope for a leap at least as big as we are used to after the normal 5 year wait.

 

[thuway]

Epic dun goofed. I can appreciate the technical underpinnings of the demonstration, but everything else seemed so generic and lackluster. They are better of creating a demonstration similar to Luminous - which might not be a technical breakthrough, but is something that looks far away more organic.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

I think both ps4 and 720 will run this, just like ue3 this gen. I also think we'll see luminous quality stuff from only a few devs, like naughty dog and square.

 

[iamshadowlark]

I had no idea watch dogs and 1313 were supposed to be for next generation. I hope next generation games are bit more impressive than that. I've seen Crysis 1 footage that still impresses me more than those games.

The Agnis demo does look a bit beyond what we have now. That, in 1080p, with large environments and a stable frame rate is definitely an acceptable leap I'd say. The UE4 stuff is more impressive in the physics and particle effect demonstrations than what I've seen in the environments, character models, and textures front. I hope that sees more of a jump before next gen too.

If this is the stuff we get next gen, then sure it'll look better than the games we have now, but not a full generational leap better. After 8 years of waiting I would hope for a leap at least as big as we are used to after the normal 5 year wait.

You know people keep saying this but I refuse to believe they actually think this.

This is a full level above crysis and then some/

Epic dun goofed. I can appreciate the technical underpinnings of the demonstration, but everything else seemed so generic and lackluster. They are better of creating a demonstration similar to Luminous - which might not be a technical breakthrough, but is something that looks far away more organic.

might not?

 

[.JayZii]

I'll never understand people who are so invested in not ever being impressed by graphics. Enjoy being disappointed forever.

 

[KageMaru]

Finally watched the vids and I have to say epic have quite an impressive engine here.

I think the assets/content is a questionable choice since it may not seem as impressive as it really is to the average Joe. We will see great things from this engine, no doubt there.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Finally watched the vids and I have to say epic have quite an impressive engine here.

I think the assets/content is a questionable choice since it may not seem as impressive as it really is to the average Joe. We will see great things from this engine, no doubt there.

Indeed. The fact that so many games will likely use this engine gives me alot of hope for the average quality of titles.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

This is a full level above crysis and then some/

the scope and size of this scene is pretty small

 

[iamshadowlark]

the scope and size of this scene is pretty small

Its really not, look at the vid. There is detail a good ways off. The fact is the poly counts, shader ops, lighting, physics etc is far beyond any particular scene in Crysis, open world or not.

People here seem to overstate the impact of open vs closed environments.

 

[ChiefofCitadelSecurity]

http://international.download.nvidi...al/videos/UnrealEngine4ElementalCinematic.mov

I appreciate it a lot more now. When I saw it last night I was kinda eh, but seeing it now I'm definitely onboard.

Some parts look really amazing

 

[AstroNut325]

@ All the people not blown away by UE4. And at the people who think Crysis or any other game holds a candle to what was shown for Star Wars 1313.

Seriously folks?

 

[-GOUKI-]

When will people learn that a game engine is only a tool used to create games. One game engine does not "look better" than the other the same way as Adobe Photoshop doesn't look better than MS paint.

 

[SapientWolf]

I had no idea watch dogs and 1313 were supposed to be for next generation. I hope next generation games are bit more impressive than that. I've seen Crysis 1 footage that still impresses me more than those games.

The Agnis demo does look a bit beyond what we have now. That, in 1080p, with large environments and a stable frame rate is definitely an acceptable leap I'd say. The UE4 stuff is more impressive in the physics and particle effect demonstrations than what I've seen in the environments, character models, and textures front. I hope that sees more of a jump before next gen too.

If this is the stuff we get next gen, then sure it'll look better than the games we have now, but not a full generational leap better. After 8 years of waiting I would hope for a leap at least as big as we are used to after the normal 5 year wait.

Agnis at 1080p? Next gen PC, maybe.

Well, now gen PC I guess.

 

[-PXG-]

When will people learn that a game engine is only a tool used to create games. One game engine does not "look better" than the other the same way as Adobe Photoshop doesn't look better than MS paint.

Thank you.

Tools are useless without human beings to make use of them. Though impressive, SE obviously spent more time making a pretty demo/video instead of showing and explaining what the tech is capable of and how artist actually use it.

Then again, can I really blame the average gamer if he or she doesn't "get" the Elemental demo? No. Not everyone understands the technical side. Not everyone is a dev or aspires to be one. However, especially on a community like GAF, it doesn't hurt to know the basics. And hey, I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination.

From a development and tech enthusiast point of view Elemental/ UE4 is ridiculous. I'm sure if the right artist spent enough time working on it, they'd make a "prettier" demo. But that would just be a useless effort. I'm sure Epic is more concerned about pleasing other devs, publishers and other potential/ would be license holders, not the every day, run of the mill gamer. I'm sure those at GDC went nuts when they saw this and those who make games, who just saw it now, are probably really pleased too.

So, GAF can hate all it wants, and talk shit about how things look shiny or how the textures aren't good enough. Such comments are just proof that you totally miss the point of a tech demo. Luminous might be impressive (seriously, it really is) but will it streamline development? Does it aspire to be more efficient and cut development costs? Is it capable of being optimized for high end hardware but also able to be scaled for multiple platforms, all with varying computing power? Will it offer a faster, more robust and a more user friendly application for artists? Will it benefit other studios besides SE itself? Will it act as barometer for the industry or merely exist in a bubble? I think you get the point...

Aesthetically, yes, the Luminous demo was amazing. I'd love to see a future Final Fantasy game look like that. The tech is great too. Just remember, art direction matters in games, not in technical demonstrations. People need to learn how to separate the two.

 

[Pavaloo]

As a frequent user of UDK and the unreal engine, I am completely floored by the UE4 tech demo. Looks spectacular and better than I could have ever expected. Too bad xbox and playstation successors are so far, I want next gen right now!

 

[j0hnny_385]

@ All the people not blown away by UE4. And at the people who think Crysis or any other game holds a candle to what was shown for Star Wars 1313.

Seriously folks?

^ this.

Some people here... what the hell?
I've been gaming since 1990. and have seen a ton of good stuff and bad (as probably most of you have).
UE4, Square's new engine, Star Wars 1313 , Watch Dogs blew me away.
When did you become so jaded and hard to please? I don't get it. If UE4, SE "Agni" (or whatever it's called) doesn't impress you I feel sorry for you. Really, I do. Because you'll obviously cemented yourself in "it's never gonna be enough" school of thought and I think you'll be missing a lot.
But hey, that's just me. I'm enjoy my PC/PS3/X360 games and sure will enjoy the next-gen as well. Because I still tingle at the prospects of where might games take us next.

 

[Globox_82]

at the end of part 3 geoff says something like:"Epic can't wait for 2014 to come soon enough".
Wonder why 2014?

 

[nelsonroyale]

Epic dun goofed. I can appreciate the technical underpinnings of the demonstration, but everything else seemed so generic and lackluster. They are better of creating a demonstration similar to Luminous - which might not be a technical breakthrough, but is something that looks far away more organic.

Not sure how you could say this... I mean you cant really compare the UE4 dev walkthrough to the SE one, since SE didnt do one...if you compare the tech demos though, the SE one demonstrated just as much flashy effects as the UE4 one...I mean, until we see a walkthrough of SE's engine, we cant really say what the engine is fully capable of... In terms of exhibiting what the engine is capable of, the luminous demo seemed far more consistantly impressive though...I agree with what one other guy said, they should have upped Samaritan to UE4...the textures in that were actually better than what was shown here...they look pretty terrible in that blow up shot.

Anyway, I understand that they are demonstrating features here which are geared towards devs thinking about licensing their engine, but the tech demo surprised me...Star Wars 1313, built on UE3 (heavily modified) impressed me more

 

[EVIL]

at the end of part 3 geoff says something like:"Epic can't wait for 2014 to come soon enough".
Wonder why 2014?

new consoles
anouncement E3 2013, release 2014

 

[Acheteedo]

at the end of part 3 geoff says something like:"Epic can't wait for 2014 to come soon enough".
Wonder why 2014?

New console launch games are using UE3 right? Didn't Epic say that we wouldn't see UE4 straight away?

 

[Biggzy]

New console launch games are using UE3 right? Didn't Epic say that we wouldn't see UE4 straight away?

Yes they did.

 

[japtor]

Posted this somewhere earlier in the thread: http://www.develop-online.net/features/1462/Epic-Games-next-gen-manifesto

And the other thing I’ll call out; I want Unreal Engine 4 to be ready far earlier than UE3 was; not a year after the consoles are released. I think a year from a console’s launch is perfectly fine for releasing a game, but not for releasing new tech. We need to be there day one or very early. That’s my primary focus.

For us as a game-maker, we aren’t keen on shipping games day one because there’s not much of an install-base, or at least not one as big as it’s going to be. But with engines, that’s a different story. We want to deliver our tech as early as possible even though our first big marquee game might not be on there for twelve or even twenty-four months from a console’s launch.

Basically sounds like their target for UE4 to be ready would be 2013 assuming the other consoles launch next year, then add in a year of development time and/or waiting for larger user base for a game and you get 2014.

 

[mrklaw]

Expected this reaction when I first saw this demo.

It's an interesting choice because it's so developer targeted. The actual content is not as visually striking as Samaritan but as a developer, all the little things they demonstrate and call out are really exciting (especially after working with UE3 for 6 years). It was a really great demo for GDC but I'm a little bit surprised they used this as their "world premiere UE4" demo for the reasons some posters are listing.

As a gamer it should be more exciting to you guys that this tech enables some really cool things that currently just never happen in games or get faked (at great expense, and painfully). Now anybody with UE4 can do it without much setup. Pretty cool stuff.

bluntly, as a gamer I don't give a shit if something is faked - all I care about is the end result. If smoke and mirrors and shortcuts makes it look good, thats fine. If you make it 'properly' and it slows everything down, I'd rather you didn't bother.

However, I understand that this more realtime and dynamic approach potentially means next gen development won't shoot up in budget - development should be streamline and sped up due to better and faster feedback, which will be countered by the need for higher res assets etc. So at best a zero sum game.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

at the end of part 3 geoff says something like:"Epic can't wait for 2014 to come soon enough".
Wonder why 2014?

Cause they said first games using ue4 will start shipping in 2014. You won't see them before that year. That doesn't mean consoles will launch that year, they could launch at the end of 2013...

 

[lefantome]

judging from the fact that they are using a lot of ram (more than 4gb is too much for consoles) that ps4 at the moment has 2gb and 720 has a weird design and both are not finalized I will say late 2014 first good UE4 game.

Meanwhile an UE4 game like killer city something for UE3 can be released.