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[Sushi Nao]

Games will never do that. You are attempting to change a person's belief system. The only way to do it is through education. Using aggression will only exacerbate the rift between the 2 schools of thought.

Yes, games will do that. Games which secure narrative investment can get across a great deal of education. Racism is not a school of thought, it's an emotional response which has been engendered and amplified in order to secure votes. It becomes wrapped in apocrypha in order to legitimize it, but it is irrational at its core.

 

[L Thammy]

I always wonder if the people complaining about politics in their video games are the same people who complain that no one is taking their hobby seriously.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Where does this "I DON'T WANT POLITICS IN MY STUFF" idea come from? Politics isn't just Harry Reid and Paul Ryan debating on CSPAN, politics is in literally any part of art, culture, or entertainment that you can think of.

Some of it is probably the typical anti-intellectual stuff that these threads breed. But I would guess at least some people are feeling burned out after this election and just want plain escapism without frills or commentary. I don't think that's probably the right approach in the end, but I sympathize with how tired some people are.

 

[More_Badass]

What your feeling is the uncomfortable realization of something you don't want to admit. Many people ignore it completely so they can go on with their lives and thats why they don't want to talk about it all. At least you are feeling the tinge of it.

To touch on this, I was there a few years ago. My dad's a pretty hard right conservative, and he was my main filter on current events and politics for a long time. Fox and Glen Beck and all that

Then I was pretty active on GAF, and was watching the Ferguson protest livestreams along with the rest here. And then I'd see how Fox would cover those "riots" the following days, even when I tried to explain to him that no I've heard the people there talking about their values and concerns and seen how the police were reacting to the protests. But he wouldn't listen or care.

It was hard for me to admit that my dad and I are so opposite politically and on social issues. It's a hard thing to accept, especially when you've trusted their advice all your life

 

[Audioboxer]

Holy shit this topic is an absolute massacre!

With the incredibly depressing and demolishing election results, Trump and his white supremacist, sexist, Islamophobic, homophobic, imperialistic ideology will be sitting with the world's strongest military, a mass surveillance apparatus in the form of NSA and Homeland Security, an extrajudicial drone program, a militarized police force that shoots an kills black and brown people without punishment, an embrace of fossil fuels in the face of cataclysmic climate changes, a legitimization of white supremacist militia like the KKK, a rise in hate crimes following the results, the LGBTQ suicides following the election, deportation of immigrants, and the list goes on and on. And all of these alarming capabilities of fascist ideology is unchecked with the Republicans controlling the house and the senate, and even being able to put in a Supreme court justice.

Whether you like it or not, the games industry and culture are not detached from this fallout and "we" cannot escape into the comfortable nature of entertainment away from what's going on "outside" (especially if we are affected by his policies). Games are part of society and can (should?) reflect what we are going through as human beings. Therefore, publishers, developers, journalists, critics, Youtubers, players, consumers, etc. have to take a stand in this ugly downturn in history. Being neutral doesn't cut it in the face of oppression and fascist ideology.

Here are some examples of what some game developers and writers have done:

• Austin Walker wrote an editorial for Waypoint on how they embrace diversity and push back against bigotry.
  
• Fullbright are making their game Gone Home free for everyone
  
• Itch.io are in the process of making a bundle where all the proceeds go to the ACLU.
  
• Double Fine are explicitly hiring diverse candidates.
  
• Editor-in-Chief of Gamesindustry.biz James Brightman did an editorial about the diversity of games and how the industry and culture have to shut down the Gamergaters and alt-right that are in line with Trump's fascism.

What other avenues can publishers, developers, writers, communities, players do? Will EA/Activision/Ubisoft/Square Enix donate profits to more civil rights unions? Will they hire more from the groups who will face the oppression of the government? Will they emphasize diversity and multiplicity in their games and their marketing? Will IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer, Polygon, etc. include address the societal context in which they do their coverage and reviews? Will Microsoft consider how their own company is situated in a country with a white supremacist government? Will Gaming Youtubers address their audiences about what's going on and remind them that this is serious business and that people, especially Muslims, LGBTQ, Black, poor, etc., will be fucked over by the policies?

I think the important thing is that the games industry in as many instances as possible does not accept or normalize Trump's and the Republicans' fascist platforms. That they don't continue the status quo and that they don't ignore it. Feel free to add or contribute with other articles or videos or PR statements by companies that touch on this.

EDIT: Two good posts on how to consider the issue: Aeolist on what you can do as a consumer and Stump on using formal politics rather than art

OP was worth it alone to point out Gone Home for free, grab it everyone!

It would be good to see a Humble Bundle (or other similar pay what you want bundles) focus on donating to an LGBT charity. Trans Life Line was featured on GAF OT ~ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1311555

 

[Alo0oy]

Games will never do that. You are attempting to change a person's belief system. The only way to do it is through education. Using aggression will only exacerbate the rift between the 2 schools of thought.

Did you see how people reacted to American Sniper?

Entertainment effects people's worldview whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[Jerbol]

But I didn't say you voted for him, nor I acussed you of anything. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Just saying that is not as easy as saying everyone should be happy with everyone, A lot of things we do has sadly a lot of consequences for other people, especially when it comes with politics.

No worries. I don't believe we should be happy or complacent. I am not going to pretend to know the answers or how to fix things, I just wanted to share my opinion and hope we can fight with positive influence and felt like sharing.

 

[ViolentP]

Yes, games will do that. Games which secure narrative investment can get across a great deal of education. Racism is not a school of thought, it's an emotional response which has been engendered and amplified in order to secure votes. It becomes wrapped in apocrypha in order to legitimize it, but it is irrational at its core.

I respectfully disagree that games will ever be an efficient tool in educating people on the incorrectness of racism. With the right narrative, you may pluck a few. But it's like casting a 50 mile long net in hopes of catching one fish.

There are much more efficient ways. This very thread is a more potentially efficient manner as communication can occur from all facets of the issue and we have the ability to actually learn from each other. Sadly, the ones that could probably use the most enlightening are being banned and much of what is remaining is people on the same side of the fence. So while we can all sit here and agree on the issue, we aren't making much change.

 

[Shahed]

I'm not sure it's the gaming industry's responsibility to do those things, or that they even remotely will. Well as a result of Trump anyway. There are 'bad' political issues everywhere. Does the gaming industry need to respond to every one of them? Look at Gamergate. That is such a vile thing. And the games industry has tried to brush it under the rug.

You say that the gaming industry should be more open and approachable, to avoid the fascism, handle sexism better and be more open about plenty of cultural and societal issues. To have more diversity, wider representation beyond the straight white male and to avoie bigotry you are correct. That is something the gaming industry csn and probably should do. But I'd argue they should be doing that anyway since it's the right thing to do. The fact that Trump has been elected shouldn't be the cause.

 

[Snowybreak]

It's all very surface level stuff because it's still only an action game with a mostly throwaway story cause it was a launch game, but it's still there.

GAF's darling series Metal Gear Solid is more blunt commentary on war and the military industrial complex, racism, lobbyists and corruption, colonialism, etc juxtaposed with the ridiculous and nonsensical. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

My point is, video games are poltical on some level whether you like it or not

Metal Gear Solid is probably one of the most political video game series in existence, if not the most political, since it's entirely about war, how war is conducted, and the effects of war.

I mean fuck, the first game dealt with the proliferation of nukes, the second one talked about the way information is disseminated in the modern world, the third was... well... more nukes, and a bit closer to campy James Bond fun, the fourth was entirely about a possible future and how war might be conducted in a supposed peaceful world, and the fifth was a commentary on the Cold War itself.

I love Metal Gear, and I love its politics more.

 

[ViolentP]

Did you see how people reacted to American Sniper?

Entertainment effects people's worldview whether you want to admit it or not.

There is a huge difference between a piece of media encouraging what is already part of your belief system, and one that makes a person do a 180 on their beliefs. Those people were already pricks. They just found something to help them validate their hatred and they grabbed on.

Those people need to be educated.

 

[Silentbiscuit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql4YDKaKqVA

 

[Catvoca]

The difference, of course, being that other art forms don't try and organise a concerted effort to push a singular agenda, or view point.

Except of course all of the literary movements that were about pushing a certain agenda, like feminism or racial equality. Or all the musical movements that were pushing an agenda, like Punk

 

[Sushi Nao]

I respectfully disagree that games will ever be an efficient tool in educating people on the incorrectness of racism. With the right narrative, you may pluck a few. But it's like casting a 50 mile long net in hopes of catching one fish.

There are much more efficient ways. This very thread is a more potentially efficient manner as communication can occur from all facets of the issue and we have the ability to actually learn from each other. Sadly, the ones that could probably use the most enlightening are being banned and much of what is remaining is people on the same side of the fence. So while we can all sit here and agree on the issue, we aren't making much change.

I'm not sure how you can argue that a passive reading experience is making a difference, and a dedicated and polished interactive experience which is crafted subtly and carefully with an over-arching moral imperative is ineffective?

The people being banned are facing consequences for their words. That's a form of education. It's not sad.

 

[More_Badass]

There is a huge difference between a piece of media encouraging what is already part of your belief system, and one that makes a person do a 180 on their beliefs. Those people were already pricks. They just found something to help them validate their hatred and they grabbed on.

Those people need to be educated.

People have talked about how movies, books, even games have influenced and affected their lives. Entertainment absolutely has a positive and/or negative effect on people's mindsets and opinions. Games perhaps even more so due to the nature of interactivity

 

[Snowybreak]

Except of course all of the literary movements that were about pushing a certain agenda, like feminism or racial equality. Or all the musical movements that was pushing an agenda, like Punk

I just had a conversation the other day with a friend and we were trying to figure out if there were any silver linings from this election, and the one stand out is that it's possible that fantastic hard punk might make a comeback!

 

[samueljustice00]

I'm not sure how you can argue that a passive reading experience is making a difference, and a dedicated and polished interactive experience which is crafted subtly and carefully with an over-arching moral imperative is ineffective?

The people being banned are facing consequences for their words. That's a form of education. It's not sad.

Well it depends on how heavy handed the moderation is, if you're not allowing people to engage in discussion then they will be pushed further into their beliefs.

However if they are just spewing hate, then throw the ban hammer

 

[ViolentP]

I'm not sure how you can argue that a passive reading experience is making a difference, and a dedicated and polished interactive experience which is crafted subtly and carefully with an over-arching moral imperative is ineffective?

The people being banned are facing consequences for their words. That's a form of education. It's not sad.

I don't think it's impossible for games to be effective, I just think it's inefficient. By the time a game releases that changes the outlook of a hundred people, we could start making those changes right here and right now. Probably starting with those very people that outed themselves as requiring a little insight.

I'm not saying that games shouldn't carry message. I think they should. But as people that want to abolish racism, we should think of more effective ways of attaining that.

 

[MetalGearZed]

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for my waifus—and I was all "What the fuck do you think you're doing."

lol

 

[Shahed]

There is a huge difference between a piece of media encouraging what is already part of your belief system, and one that makes a person do a 180 on their beliefs. Those people were already pricks. They just found something to help them validate their hatred and they grabbed on.

Those people need to be educated.

They need to be educated. What they don't need is material that reinforces their misconceptions. The more you play on showing certain things as being one way and the more a person who disagrees absorbs that material, the easier it is to 'convert' them one way or another.

Even though it's not where it should be yet, the treatment and acceptance of homosexuality has come a long way in the last 10 years. I know people who couldn't stomach the idea of it around them, but now are more open to the idea. Positive reinforcement and acceptance in media and content go along way towards this.

 

[Nanashrew]

Whats wrong with GAF these days.

They might be talking about something like this. From the New York Times 1922 http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/02/10/1922-hitler-in-bavaria/?smid=tw-share&_r=0

BoingBoing points to a very specific part of that article http://boingboing.net/2016/11/11/hitlers-only-kidding-about.html

I saw this stuff passed around quite a bit.

I have seen this kind of rhetoric used quite a lot this past year and after Trump's election. That he'll be kept on a leash and he'll not do any of the stuff he talked about. That he just used his platform to gain massive attention for a win. Everything in blind faith.

Many are genuinely frightened at what he'll do to the country and its people. Especially with so many of his cabinet being filled with some pretty corrupt people.

 

[Woorloog]

I'm not saying that games shouldn't carry message. I think they should. But as people that want to abolish racism, we should think of more effective ways of attaining that.

I think effectiveness requires multi-media approach. It can't be limited to just TV and radio. All forms can be and should be used. The more visible message, the more effective it is.
Overall it won't cause burnouts.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Metal Gear Solid is probably one of the most political video game series in existence, if not the most political, since it's entirely about war, how war is conducted, and the effects of war.

I mean fuck, the first game dealt with the proliferation of nukes, the second one talked about the way information is disseminated in the modern world, the third was... well... more nukes, and a bit closer to campy James Bond fun, the fourth was entirely about a possible future and how war might be conducted in a supposed peaceful world, and the fifth was a commentary on the Cold War itself.

I love Metal Gear, and I love its politics more.

Sorry, but how dare you forget this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20hBYLZIrlQ&t=2m25s

Metal Gear Rising is like the Rocky IV of games (and now I might need a replay).

 

[Nanashrew]

That's putting it lightly, lol. Tales of Symphonia's story is about literal concentration camps while half of the protagonist's dialogue is ,,stop discrimination" (and tricking people into cold coffee). I can't say I ever heard anyone complain about the game being political though (if anything, at worst, that the story was being too heavyhanded).

That's true. I've seen people say that Symphonia gets really "preachy." It does.

 

[ViolentP]

People have talked about how movies, books, even games have influenced and affected their lives. Entertainment absolutely has a positive and/or negative effect on people's mindsets and opinions. Games perhaps even more so due to the nature of interactivity

I completely agree and I'm not saying that they shouldn't steer towards better thinking. I just think that in the interest of making society a better place, we have an amazing resource right here. We have a community that cares and if we do something together, we can start making changes right now. We can push others to do the same, but we should push them through example.

I think effectiveness requires multi-media approach. It can't be limited to just TV and radio. All forms can be and should be used. The more visible message, the more effective it is.
Overall it won't cause burnouts.

I don't disagree. I don't think these discussions should ever stop. I just think that if we started together in building our ideals, our words will carry much more weight. People will be forced to notice that it's time for change because we aren't just asking people to change anymore, we are making the change and asking others to join us in doing so.

 

[Alienfan]

2016 was a really good year for diversity in the AAA space, people of color as protagonists and box art and close to 50% featured games that had a playable female character too - an improvement from years past, so more of that please.

Maybe just the journalists I follow, but most seem to be very conscience of what this election meant (minus Colin Moriarty basically telling minorities to calm their shit) - I guess what I would like to see is working to diversify the workforce more, not being afraid to write a more politically charged piece or being afraid to call out gamergate. Treating gaming as a serious art form.

As for games, the vocal ones ehhhhhh. First page and the banned posts are what most of the comments outside of GAF are like. So I don't know how we fix that

 

[Snowybreak]

Sorry, but how dare you forget this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20hBYLZIrlQ&t=2m25s

Metal Gear Rising is like the Rocky IV of games.

Damn it! Sorry! I was gonna include it, but I was trying to stick to the mainline games. Rising is EXTREMELY political, and is pretty good at sticking to its message.

Edit: Why yes I did just Bold, Italicize and Underline for emphasis

 

[Sushi Nao]

I don't think it's impossible for games to be effective, I just think it's inefficient. By the time a game releases that changes the outlook of a hundred people, we could start making those changes right here and right now. Probably starting with those very people that outed themselves as requiring a little insight.

I'm not saying that games shouldn't carry message. I think they should. But as people that want to abolish racism, we should think of more effective ways of attaining that.

Respectfully, when the things you say parse to "your ability to make a difference against racism is inefficient so you should forget about trying and do some other nebulous more-acceptable-to-racists activity which you're probably way less passionate about," you're complicit in the racism. Take a look at what you're saying.

 

[ViolentP]

Respectfully, when the things you say parse to "your ability to make a difference against racism is inefficient so you should forget about trying and do some other nebulous more-acceptable-to-racists activity which you're probably way less passionate about," you're complicit in the racism. Take a look at what you're saying.

Read what I am saying. I have never said anything near "you should forget trying". I have said quite the contrary.

 

[WarpathDC]

Ugh seeing all the bans on here for stating opposition to the OP is ridiculous. Is this the new reddit?

Games often incorporate political themes. I'd imagine they will continue to do so.

I'd like to see Hillary: The Prison Break-A Telltale series personally

Civilization 9-Make America Great Again!

Pepe the Frog-Extra Spicy Edition from Rare Ltd, "Xbox exclusive on the more powerful Scorpio console"

Adventure Communist-Bernie Sanders Edition Apple Exclusive

Payday 3: The Clinton Foundation

 

[L Thammy]

Ugh seeing all the bans on here for stating opposition to the OP is ridiculous. Is this the new reddit?

Games often incorporate political themes. I'd imagine they will continue to do so.

I'd like to see Hillary: The Prison Break-A Telltale series personally

At first I was going to say that the reason people have been banned is because there's a rule against thread whining, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread. Something about the last part of your post has me thinking that you don't care what's actually happening though.

 

[Sai-kun]

Ugh seeing all the bans on here for stating opposition to the OP is ridiculous. Is this the new reddit?

Games often incorporate political themes. I'd imagine they will continue to do so.

I'd like to see Hillary: The Prison Break-A Telltale series personally

all i see is threadshitting, personally.

 

[xxracerxx]

Ugh seeing all the bans on here for stating opposition to the OP is ridiculous. Is this the new reddit?

They are not stating an opposition to the point of the OP, they are shitting that the OP even exists.

There is a difference.

 

[potatohead]

Did you see how people reacted to American Sniper?

Entertainment effects people's worldview whether you want to admit it or not.

Wow.

 

[Sushi Nao]

Read what I am saying. I have never said anything near "you should forget trying". I have said quite the contrary.

Games will never do that.

it's like casting a 50 mile long net in hopes of catching one fish.

I get that you feel that you're to be helpful, but telling someone whose passion is to make games that their narratives are essentially useless certainly does parse to telling them to stop trying.

 

[Slug Sh0t]

I liked the results of the election and respect people who feel differently. Keep real life politics out of gaming please.

 

[Snowybreak]

Ugh seeing all the bans on here for stating opposition to the OP is ridiculous. Is this the new reddit?

Games often incorporate political themes. I'd imagine they will continue to do so.

I'd like to see Hillary: The Prison Break-A Telltale series personally

Civilization 9-Make America Great Again!

Pepe the Frog-Extra Spicy Edition from Rare Ltd, "Xbox exclusive on the more powerful Scorpio console"

Adventure Communist-Bernie Sanders Edition Apple Exclusive

Payday 3: The Clinton Foundation

...did you really just edit to make what you posted look like sarcasm?

And second, they weren't banned for disagreement (if you actually fucking read the posts) they were banned for thread shitting.

 

[ViolentP]

I get that you feel that you're to be helpful, but telling someone whose passion is to make games that their narratives are essentially useless certainly does parse to telling them to stop trying.

Ineffective is not the same thing as useless. I am not saying developers should not try, nor do I believe their attempts to be useless. I have already said as much. I am talking about us here. We can push developers all day to make things better, or we can pool our resources and start making those changes now.

My main point is that we here have the ability to lead by example. Not be the people asking others to make change, but rather to ask others to join us in making things better. Get my meaning?

 

[reKon]

Fine, I concede to your point. I would've been better off not posting here.

But I still stand my right to express my personal frustration with not being able to get away from politics. Not even in my happy place gaming forums. It's just really exhausting.

I don't understand posts like these. Not even 10% of the active topics in the gaming section are currently involving discussions related to politics.

 

[xxracerxx]

I liked the results of the election and respect people who feel differently. Keep real life politics out of gaming please.

Great for you, but you cannot keep politics out of gaming.

 

[Sushi Nao]

Ineffective is not the same thing as useless. I am not saying developers should not try, nor do I believe their attempts to be useless. I have already said as much. I am talking about us here. We can push developers all day to make things better, or we can pool our resources and start making those changes now.

My main point is that we here have the ability to lead by example. Not be the people asking others to make change, but rather to ask others to join us in making things better. Get my meaning?

...dude, I make games

 

[ViolentP]

...dude, I make games

That's great. Nothing to do with my point, however.

 

[Staf]

NEOgaf seriously need a separate section for political stuff.

 

[schlynch]

I appreciate every action to a more diverse world of gaming, even before the election... and I have to say, being honest, about the election and what games can do about it... it is 0. Traditional gaming is still to 'niche' for that. And I don't think that the election of Trump himself have anything to do with gaming. But every action in this direction will help gaming itself. Sad to see it takes an event like that for some devs to make those actions.

 

[Sushi Nao]

That's great. Nothing to do with my point, however.

I'm saying that's how I'm going to lead by example? Hey, never mind; I get what you're saying. I appreciate the exchange.

 

[WarpathDC]

...did you really just edit to make what you posted look like sarcasm?

And second, they weren't banned for disagreement (if you actually fucking read the posts) they were banned for thread shitting.

Why the salt? My original title had a "sarcastic game in it" I added more. You call it sarcasm I call it joking. Let's call it a sarcastic joke. I'd buy all of those hypothetical games though!

 

[RichiRamjag]

NEOgaf seriously need a separate section for political stuff.

Just don't click on the fucking title. For fucks sake. I'm not the most liberal guy out there either, but if you don't like the thread, then stay the hell out. I don't get why you guys come in here, thread whine, then get banned, then act surprised.

 

[ViolentP]

I'm saying that's how I'm going to lead by example? Hey, never mind; I get what you're saying. I appreciate the exchange.

I respect that you're attempting to make change. That is exactly the action I am trying to promote with the rest of us here. We can all start making change. Just as you are.

 

[Elabis]

I hope the gaming industry stays apolitical.

 

[mitchlol]

Apologies if I offend, as a non American (living in another country) the types of things in the media I have read/seen on my local news websites have all been very anti Trump. In the lead up to the election there would be new stories each day with sensationalised headlines quoting the things Trump says. Occasionally there would be a neutral article highlighting the positive points from each party but I rarely if ever saw an article that I could consider 'Pro' Trump. From an outsider looking in I don't agree with the things Trump has said or his overall behaviour towards the presidency. However I do believe in democracy and while I don't think he is equipped to be an good, adequate or even passable president for your country. He did still win the election.... How can we say "He is Hitler" then at the same time over turn a democratic vote? I find that idea to be hypocritical. No matter who the leader of the free world is, I have hope that it won't stop people from being tolerant, respectful to one another. Sure there will be people who feel justified in their attitudes towards minorities but if everyone can band together and get passed the prejudice, then it won't matter who is in charge as the everyday man/woman will be doing the right thing to respect and treat one another as equals.