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How come Kojima's research is SO on point?
- Thread starter Back-In-Black
- Start date
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
It's a maker and a breaker for me: on the one hand there's this absurd amount of detail in small things that give the world an overwhelming sense of verisimilitude, and then the characters open their mouths and so often the whole thing goes promptly to shit.
MGS3 is a mind-boggler for me - the writing in that game is crazy inconsistent. All the backdrop you get in the initial cut scenes is genuinely compelling but then it all goes to hell when Boss and Naked Snake are introduced on the intercom. From there it just descends into some daytime soap opera-level drivel about how Snake feels abandoned and Boss had no choice.
At that point I'm like okay, so I supposed to believe these guys are elite professionals at the top of their fields but their whining at each other like it's their first session of marriage counselling.
MGS3 is a mind-boggler for me - the writing in that game is crazy inconsistent. All the backdrop you get in the initial cut scenes is genuinely compelling but then it all goes to hell when Boss and Naked Snake are introduced on the intercom. From there it just descends into some daytime soap opera-level drivel about how Snake feels abandoned and Boss had no choice.
At that point I'm like okay, so I supposed to believe these guys are elite professionals at the top of their fields but their whining at each other like it's their first session of marriage counselling.
Not sure what WrenchNinja was talking about, there. In the original Japanese, they were talking about "優性遺伝子" and "劣性遺伝子". That's, quite literally, "dominant genes" and "recessive genes".
Greatest Ever
Member
Are we going to act like Russia actually had a bunch of forests of that size in that location or...
Firmus_Anguis
Banned
Details aside, all his games have some kind of message. Love that about Kojimas games... All the effort and research. Partially why MGSV just felt so half-assed to me... God I hate Konami. Can't wait for Death Stranding though! 
Schopenhauerian
Member
Apparently its in the ending, epilogue conversation. I think
Thanks for clearing that up!
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
kojimas games certainly do take a lot of care with its attention to detai and they are a huge plus to the games, but Op's emphasis on story details are not where i would point to for the best examples,
for me the really impactful attention to detail is better seen in the animation (both in game and in cutscene) and Ai, particularly the behavior of the series many soldiers, both important characters and common grunts.
In the soldiers behavior there is usually a very clear emphasis on the discipline and technique of their actions, rather than the more typical action movie flamboyancy that you would likely see in most games of films (the kind of behavior that does often come out of the series wackier fighters, like many of the throwaway bosses).
for me the really impactful attention to detail is better seen in the animation (both in game and in cutscene) and Ai, particularly the behavior of the series many soldiers, both important characters and common grunts.
In the soldiers behavior there is usually a very clear emphasis on the discipline and technique of their actions, rather than the more typical action movie flamboyancy that you would likely see in most games of films (the kind of behavior that does often come out of the series wackier fighters, like many of the throwaway bosses).
Glass Shark
Banned
when you do a Google search for "military research and development" DARPA is the first result
but yes sure this could only happen if Kojima was a literal genius
but yes sure this could only happen if Kojima was a literal genius
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I think some of y'all need to watch more movies.
Chronospherics
Member
I don't get it. These are the kind of things you come across on wikipedia very easily.
The blend of wikipedia gleaned information with Japanese anime always makes the MG games come across as a little cringe worthy to me.
The blend of wikipedia gleaned information with Japanese anime always makes the MG games come across as a little cringe worthy to me.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
He's a genius that's why. I've always noticed the crazy attention to detail in his games and that's why he's my favorite dev. You can always count on him for top notch quality and attention to detail in his games.
Diprosalic
Banned
You don't exactly make great points in your OP.
archangelmorph
Member
Agreed...
Even from a gameplay perspective, all of the little diverse myriad of interactions the MGS games support, going all the way back to the PS1 were just amazing.
Some are easter eggs, some for fun, and others can be used as humourous solutions as part of your espionage tactical arsenal.
I just love that and wish more games put more emphasis on expanding the range of interactivity within the worlds they create, in subtle and interesting ways like this.
We have ALOT of very pretty pretty, but very very static and functionless worlds/environments in gaming today and it's BORING.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Am I going mad or missing the joke? Everything in the OP is like common knowledge?
Glass Shark
Banned
Metal Gear fanboys are a special brand of crazy
I don't think weirdly offended is correct, I'm just absolutely bemused by the absolutely weird personality cult that this guy has. Hideo Kojima gets the name of a military rank correct and that's grounds for everyone to slap their sausage on the table and start chugging one out over it.
If it was any other renowned developer (Peter Molyneux is a genius, he used the correct name of a US government department!), we wouldn't even think twice. What gives?
Diprosalic
Banned
A genius with the writing talent of a 12 year old and apparantly just as horny.
Schopenhauerian
Member
I can assure you it's definitely not. Look at any game, movie, or even a book with a high attention to details. Even authors are getting input from experts or friends who are highly knowledgeable enthusiasts in a subject matter that gives the writer an insight into an obscure topic.
There is never 1 person with so much knowledge unless they have a photographic memory.
No it's not. I know everything the OP mentioned but you are totally crazy if you think this stuff is common knowledge.
Leyasu
Banned
Lol, yeah, exactly.
Back-In-Black
Banned
LOL, are you suggesting that every book is as detailed and well researched as a Tom Clancy novel, especially books dealing with military and governmental matters? There is a reason why Tom Clancy novels are so well regarded and loved, I'll give you a hint, because it's not common.
Then why do so many fictional stories get them wrong? I'm including movies, games, and books.
I don't watch a ton of movies but most of the ones I do handwave this kind of thing in a way that makes Call of Duty look like an ARMA game with a plot outline by Tom Clancy.
Usually the divide is a lot more intense with movies. You either have 100% total fantasy (Captain America or James Bond) or quasi-documentary levels of detail. No melding of the absurd and the grounded which is what I love about Japanese stuff so much. Berserk's another good example of this, but I suppose a 30 hour long game or a 3000+ page comic are easier to go into great detail with than a 1.5-2 hour movie.
People act like "realistic" and "fantastic" are opposing concepts, but they're not. You can use realistic details to texture a fantasy world and give it a kind of logic that makes it feel more "real", and you can use fantastical elements to inject a level of crazy drama into an otherwise totally mundane setting (Lovecraft did this a lot).
Neff
Member
Not just Metal Gear, either. He had medical advisers on Snatcher, in addition to medical/space advisers on Policenauts. His games are very well researched and bursting with detail and fascinating facts, but only a fraction of that is down to Kojima himself.
Adam_Vania
Banned
it was really cool starting MGSV and having those tapes where they give u the info dump on world politics, and hearing about the build up to the whole Russia/Afghanistan thing through newscasts and real world events. still kind of amazed nobody has gone into depth w this stuff, how Diamond Dogs is skating on the fringe of this famous and very consequential conflict.
i love all the David Bowie references in these games, it's like icing on the cake for me. recently i was listening to "Lodger" and in the song "Move On" heard the following line:
Cyprus is my island/when the going's rough
I would love to find you/somewhere in a place like that
i ended up going a bunch of research of Cyprus and yeah, it's not just a random reference, it's a place with strategic and historic significance.
i love all the David Bowie references in these games, it's like icing on the cake for me. recently i was listening to "Lodger" and in the song "Move On" heard the following line:
Cyprus is my island/when the going's rough
I would love to find you/somewhere in a place like that
i ended up going a bunch of research of Cyprus and yeah, it's not just a random reference, it's a place with strategic and historic significance.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Because stories are about characters and drama and prose, and being pedantic with details doesn't make them any better at any of those things?
It was before '98 dude.
Leonardo da Vinci is the Hideo Kojima of the 15th century.
I use Metal Gear games to study for all my exams.
atomic moth
Member
Your examples aren't really that impressive. Kojima probably just read one Tom Clancy novel to get those references.
It's his creativity and what he does with those facts that are the fun parts.
It's his creativity and what he does with those facts that are the fun parts.
Glass Shark
Banned
-Mutsukki-
Member
If he was using google in 1998 and getting this much out of it I guess I would call him a literal genius
Is it really common knowledge? I barely see stuff like that being referenced in detail, OP also gave examples of other games that get it wrong.
And being very careful about detail absolutely enrichs your story, it's pretty weird that you're even making that point.
If you want to see every detail of those games go watch
OuterHeavenNetwork they just started streaming and will play all games with every known easter-egg and special stuff for the next few days.
It's super interesting to see
OuterHeavenNetwork they just started streaming and will play all games with every known easter-egg and special stuff for the next few days.
It's super interesting to see
Camp Freddie
Member
Apparently there's this thing called photosynthesis, that only cutting edge biologists know about.
I bet you feel ashamed of yourselves for not knowing this!
Seriously though, Kojima is very hit and miss. It's part of the charm of his games that there's crazy attention to detail in some areas and a complete hand-waving cheesefest in others. It's a very Japanese cultural thing.
I bet you feel ashamed of yourselves for not knowing this!
Seriously though, Kojima is very hit and miss. It's part of the charm of his games that there's crazy attention to detail in some areas and a complete hand-waving cheesefest in others. It's a very Japanese cultural thing.
quackamole
Member
What's crazy is we are actually living in a world similar to what MGS has in real life, with the government control and memes taking on a life on their own, minus the crazy vampires and cyber ninjas.
in addition, English is not his native language.
visiblemode
Member
The premise here is confounding OP.
Kojima is one of the best in the business, and an intelligent person, who has surrounded himself with talent.
Not sure why there has to be more of an explanation, than that, as to why he researched his work.
Kojima is one of the best in the business, and an intelligent person, who has surrounded himself with talent.
Not sure why there has to be more of an explanation, than that, as to why he researched his work.
Back-In-Black
Banned
Really? Tell that to the most popular movies and books because they all have superb detail and research that go into making their worlds feel rich and believable. A Song of Ice and Fire. Tom Clancy novels. Lord of the Rings. Star Trek. 2001. Hell, even Nolan's Batman movies.
Star Wars is the only real mega popular franchise that doesn't concern itself too much with detail but that's mainly do to the mysterious and mythical aspect of the franchise. Star Wars breaks down when it does actually try to get into too much detail as seen in the prequels. Star Wars is more concerned with letting your imagination run wild with the possibilities of its fictional world as opposed to filling said world with such detail for you.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
He gets people who know this stuff to create a universe filled with real world details inside his own fiction.
Which is why I love Metal Gear Solid so much, even when it's self aware, the universe in itself is so convincing because the world takes itself seriously, even when the characters and the game does not.
People love detail and world building, it's why the poster above me is right when it comes to popular literature. It's easy to become engulfed in a world that takes time and effort to describe it's logic and lore, even when it's inherently impossible or based on our reality with unrealistic twists.
Also, he's a techno-nerd, he inherently loves these type of details.
Which is why I love Metal Gear Solid so much, even when it's self aware, the universe in itself is so convincing because the world takes itself seriously, even when the characters and the game does not.
People love detail and world building, it's why the poster above me is right when it comes to popular literature. It's easy to become engulfed in a world that takes time and effort to describe it's logic and lore, even when it's inherently impossible or based on our reality with unrealistic twists.
Also, he's a techno-nerd, he inherently loves these type of details.
You need to read better books. Clancy and the like are airport lounge filler.
And again, all that stuff you listed:
- A Colonel is a good commanding rank in the army
- The CIA and the Pentagon don't get on
- DARPA is known for being the flying saucer agency
You exclude all the stuff "he" gets wrong.
And those air quotes are because in your mad dash to fete him you ignore the literally hundreds of people who worked on those games.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Yes, well done, you've correctly identified the best stories humanity has ever managed to tell, Star Trek, Tom Clancy novels and Nolans The Dark Knight. I admit defeat.