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[Brandon F]

My response to this same post from the OT:

I always primarily found sticking to the 'highest route' to be the most rewarding and often challenging 'goal' to achieve in levels of the classic games. Doing so often demanded the most practice, speed, and provided the most satisfaction and rewards. Lower routes lead to the same endpoint, but it was always clear that staying near the top of the stage was the skillful approach for a player to yearn to achieve.

The best endings are locked behind chaos emeralds, so the ultimate goal is also to hunt down those secret stages and get all 7 before the final boss. But that is a sort of side objective.

 

[jman2050]

It astounds me that a game series with five discrete actions the player can do at most is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

You can run. You can jump. You can roll into a ball by pressing down. That's the extent of the knowledge you need to play these games.

 

[Carlisle]

Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

Just get to the end of the stage.

Is this confusion a generational thing? I'm too old.

 

[jon bones]

also Mania question:

do i play as sonic, tails or knuckles? i need a save for each?

Just get to the end of the stage.

Is this confusion a generational thing? I'm too old.

i'm in my mid 30s

even as a kid i "got" mario but sonic was always bizarrely fast and felt weird, like you had to stop the momentum the game wants you to have to explore

the staccato start/stop pacing never felt good to me

 

[oneida]

Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

you don't get it because your foundation is incorrect.

 

[epmode]

I have to say that I empathize with the OP. Years of BLAST PROCESSING ads conditioned me to believe that Sonic is designed to be played at top speed. And it's *awful* like that.

I'm going to get Sonic Mania when it's released on PC. I hope to finally figure out why people love the Genesis games so much.

 

[calavera_jo]

I somehow figured this out at 6 years old...

yeah same. It's meant for multiple playthroughs and play the game however you want? Explore, experiment?

 

[Give War A Chance]

I guess after growing up with Mario and then going back to Sonic as an adult, I'm really in the same boat. I just don't understand what you're actually even supposed to do in these games. It feels like they made it to promote speed and inertia, but if you only play that way it feels REALLY boring. If you play it kind of like a MARIO game, with speed boosts from time to time, it feels like an okay "platformer."

I think I just missed the boat on this franchise. I'm glad to hear people that are into finally got a game they can love to love.

 

[Davybot]

Rings are your health, doesn't matter if you hold more than one, as long as your hold one you can survive a hit.
Level wise, it's all your play style, you can explore to your hearts content, or you could speed run levels for fun. The tvs give you rings and shield power ups with different abilities.
As for the big rings, I don't think you need to 'activate' them, they're always ready to jump into. Those lead to special stages that give emeralds, the game's story mcguffins. Collect them all to get the good ending.

Hope that helps dude!

 

[RumbleHumble]

You collect rings to keep yourself from dying and to get extra lives.

You die if you get hit by an enemy/lethal object, but have no rings or if you don't beat the level and boss within 10 minutes.

Outside this, you don't NEED to do anything. You can speed through the levels like a madman, or you can explore the vertical space, inspecting every nook and cranny the level design has to offer.

Just because Sonic is the main character doesn't mean the level design is based on Sonic's abilities. Tails and Knuckles can travel in ways that some levels really cater to. The abilities your character can unlock by destroying the screens, such as the flame dash and the electric double jump, also focus on enhancing vertical movement, making difficult to reach places, possible, and adding to the exploration possibilities.

Many people think what makes Sonic special is that he can go fast, therefore thinking that the level design should be focused on horizontal movement. In fact, 2D sonic is usually the opposite, focused on vertical level design so as to provide you with new places/areas to explore within the level with each playthrough.

And yeah, while you can totally try for chaos emeralds, they're far from necessary to enjoy the experience.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

It astounds me that a game series with five discrete actions the player can do at most is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

You can run. You can jump. You can roll into a ball by pressing down. That's the extent of the knowledge you need to play these games.

Apparently the very limited amount of input necessary to play this game also astounded people playing Sonic 3, so much so that they couldn't advance through that carnival level because they didn't know they had to build momentum on that spinning platform in order to jump high. How do you go years not figuring this out? I can't imagine people tried every button input when they got up to that part... it was pressing up and down and pressing down once clearly showed that the platform lowered considerably more for some reason, so logic should have followed to continue doing it.

 

[Rizific]

Good lord. I knew how to play sonic games when I was like 8 years old. Didn't need outside information for help. I just, you know, played the fucking game.

 

[Tank Jr.]

Are you trying to acquire and hang onto as many rings as possible, or do they not really matter outside of lives?

You could ask the same of Mario's coins or Crash's Wumpa fruit.

 

[Mesoian]

Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

It is a platformer that rewards technical and precise jumps with short sections of speed. Complete the tough moving block section, then spin dash through this intricate set of loops. Navigate your way through this underground water way then use the waterfalls to boost yourself across the top of the map. Maneuver around these spike traps then use the bouncing platform at the bottom of the stage to propel you to the top.

It's not punishing you for going fast, it's rewarding you by letting you go fast after completing a platforming challenge.

I don't get how people don't understand this. Every single 2D sonic game does this with 0 exceptions.

 

[NotLiquid]

Just gonna nab my post from the Mania OT.

In standard terms you just want to beat the level. Rings are like a bunch of second chances but also contribute to your score which carries the tension of risk the more you get. The levels are multifaceted, with the high road usually being considered the harder/faster route, and exploring what the levels have to offer yields things like power ups, secret paths and bonus stages where you can collect Chaos Emeralds which are like this game's version of the super secret collectible. It's not really about getting to the end of the stage as quickly as possible, but because of the mechanics of the game, it heavily encourages you to go fast and employing the mechanics of speed in order to access additional areas, which is part of the reason why the best Sonic games are built to be just as good for platforming as they are for speedrunning, even if many games sometimes end up prioritizing one over the other. The Genesis games, and Mania, strike the best balance and are more crafty when it comes to this.

2D Sonic games are heavily contingent on rolling. This is going to be your main move throughout the game. When you're faced with slopes and inclines you want to roll in order to build up proper momentum and go even faster than you would if you were running. Rolling also protects you against enemies that may be in your way or destructible obstacles. If you can learn to pull that off well, you'll be able to go fast while also going safe.

The caveat of course with rolling is that you sacrifice control and that you also have to perform it on proper areas, as well as already having inherited momentum, to maintain your speed, or else you'll grind to a halt, so while there is some risk with it, there's more reward when done right and you can trust that rolling is your "safer" state so to speak most of the time.

Mania also helps finally give Sonic a unique incentive of playing by giving him the Drop Dash which is a fantastic ability that can maintain momentum whenever you feel like you need to regain momentum after a jump.

Basically, learn to use the level design as a tool and applying Sonic's pinball-esque physics for going fast.

 

[oti]

It astounds me that a game series with five discrete actions the player can do at most is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

You can run. You can jump. You can roll into a ball by pressing down. That's the extent of the knowledge you need to play these games.

You run fast -> You run into obstacles and enemies.
So I'm not supposed to run fast?

You walk slowly -> Sonic accelerates at spots.
So I'm not supposed to walk slowly?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Not gonna lie it's why I never really got into the 2d ones. I feel like the levels discourage you to go fast when that's sonics thing

Complaining you can't go fast on your first playthrough without learning the levels is like complaining you can't just walk through a souls game without dying immediately.

Spoiler

To go fast you need to git gud

 

[ornery]

This thread is going to be something else.

Also, you play it how you want. Theres no correct or incorrect way.

 

[Sub_Level]

Step 1 - You start a level.

Step 2 - You run and jump your way to the end of a level.

Step 3 - There is no step 3.

Most of your other questions don't have answers op. You can play how you want, collecting items, killing enemies, going slow, going fast, e.t.c.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Just gonna nab my post from the Mania OT.

What a helpful non condescending/non shit post. I'll remember this when I start it today

 

[Danthrax]

You play however you want. If you want to try to speedrun the level because the speed is fun for you, do that.

If you want to take it slow, explore the level, kill every enemy you find, get all the secret item boxes and special stage entry points, do that.

If you want to mix exploring with going fast at times, do that. That's how I play. Sometimes part of the level is set up to have you go fast through loops and chutes and whatnot. Then you'll get to a part with perilous fire and spikes that you have to carefully jump past. There's variety.

Also, Sonic games are about replaying levels. Don't feel bad if you missed huge sections of a zone. You can always go back to a level and check out parts you didn't miss. That's a lot of fun, too.


[edit] BTW, collecting tons of rings is mostly about two things: Getting a higher score (for vanity purposes) and getting 100 rings to earn an extra life. Sure, you can try to hang onto as many of them as possible until the end of the level, but it's not necessary to "play Sonic the right way," so to speak.

 

[Diablohead]

Go from left to right, explore if you want.

There we go.

 

[Neiteio]

This article captures this aspect of Sonic quite well

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/27/why-sonic-the-hedgehog-incorrect-game-design

In short, it does a lot of things 'wrong' but somehow still works.

In his excellent book on game design, A Theory of Fun, Raph Koster, says the essence of good game design is teaching – a well constructed level slowly introduces you to its themes, and shows you how to beat them. Learn, test, master.

Sonic doesn’t do this – all it establishes at the beginning is that speed is important. In a single playthrough, you only ever get a passing feel for the levels; you miss vast areas – all the rules are broken...new players always find it hard to read the screen, because it’s not working like a good game.

To reach the more reward-intensive upper levels, you need to master the exact distances and timings between launch pads and obstacles, but it’s impossible to garner this information on a first run-through because the speed of the game – its main appeal – hides everything from you. In Sonic, you must learn through repetition rather than observation. This is confounding for a lot of people

Great article, articulates what is odd about Sonic.

This analysis is on point. It's the reason I've long struggled with 2D Sonic. However, I'm really trying to get a feel for Sonic Mania. I'm forcing myself to just plow forward, ignoring alternate paths, hoping to find a "flow" that's just fun -- fun enough to hopefully entice me to replay each level enough to discover all the alternate paths.

There's definitely fun to be had here, but it's a lot more counter-intuitive than, say, Mario.

 

[CrazyArcadia]

Ok, so basically Sonic stages are separated into different paths. Usually, the higher paths are more rewarding but also more difficult. The paths intervene at multiple points so e.g. you can switch from mid to high tier routes. Later stages are even more complex and offer many different paths. Think of it as a multilayered racing track with pinball elements.

As soon as you got that racing analogy, know that these games are meant to be replayed. The first playthroughs are learning the tracks, exploring your favorite routes and where rings/powerups are located and the controls of Sonic at high speed momentum.

Then you play it as a sort of jump n run racing game, trying to beat high scores and time trials while getting all those emeralds.

 

[GhostWriter24]

Sounds like you've figured out what many of us have known for years... That Sonic games are terrible.

What the fuck am I reading?

 

[Lumination]

As long as you have even 1 ring, it protects you from like 90% of all hazards. Random instant-kill pitfalls off-screen don't really happen.

 

[delta_reg]

The ultimate goal is to finish each level and beat the game. How you pursue this goal is up to you. So long as you're progressing through levels there's no 'right' way or 'wrong' way. So the same as almost every other game, ever, in other words.

 

[daveo42]

Primary goal: Make it to the end of the level within the time limt
Secondary goal: Collect enough rings to enter bonus stages to collect Chaos Emeralds

The secondary goal is a mix of thematic and game mechanic. Thematicall, you keep them out of the hands of Robotnik/Eggman while allowing Sonic to power up to Super Sonic when all seven are collected.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

It astounds me that a game series with five discrete actions the player can do at most is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

You can run. You can jump. You can roll into a ball by pressing down. That's the extent of the knowledge you need to play these games.

It astounds me that so many people are missing the point or purposefully simplifying it in order to post some arrogant statement.

It's obviously he's talking about the flow of the game and how the games are intended to be played. You honestly think he's having trouble knowing what the buttons do?

If you're new to Sonic all you hear about is how fast he is and the gameplay is. Then you play the game and you feel like you're missing everything if you're going fast, but if you stop to explore it kills the momentum and pacing you enjoy. The momentum that the game is largely sold on. If you play it how you feel it was intended you feel you're missing out on stuff. If you don't then you wonder why you're playing a Sonic game.

Not that difficult. I love 2D Sonic games but even I appreciate that conflict before you're used to them. It's just something you get used to with time and playing them, not upset internet commentors mocking you because they feel a game they like is being questioned.

 

[oneida]

You run fast -> You run into obstacles and enemies.
So I'm not supposed to run fast?

You walk slowly -> Sonic accelerates at spots.
So I'm not supposed to walk slowly?

"wait so mario jumps? so i just keep jumping? look he jumped into a hole! what terrible game design."

 

[devonodev]

It's amazing just how good Sega's advertising was in the 90s. People still think it's all about going fast with blast processing.

Forget everything you know, just play an old or mania Sonic game and see what happens.

 

[orioto]

Yeah i can tell when i was a kid i was wonfused to. A game needs a clear goal and a coherent level deisgn in regard. Sonic always feels like you're not sure what should be the way to do the levels.

 

[Brian_FETO]

You run fast -> You bulb into obstacles and enemies.
So I'm not supposed to run fast?

You walk slowly -> Sonic accelerates at spots.
So I'm not supposed to walk slowly?

No, you're supposed to eventually play better

There's stage hazards like any other game

There's rings that allow you to be hit by said stage hazards and recover quickly

There's a risk/reward tradeoff for collecting enough rings in time for a checkpoint to go to a special stage and potentially get chaos emeralds

 

[HandsomeCharles]

You pretty much have to hold right and jump until you can no longer hold right and jump.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Just get to the end of the stage.

Is this confusion a generational thing? I'm too old.

Yes. It absolutely is.

 

[NintendosBooger]

There's no point in slowing down to explore as there's nothing worthy to visually consume. It's like pumping your breaks in the middle of a Kansas highway to appreciate the dull flat terrain when its dreary landscape is more aptly observable passing through it at 80-miles-per-hour.

 

[Brandon F]

Speed is beneficial for maintaining momentum often for the 'upper routes', as in staying as close to the top of the screen throughout the stage. That route most often features the greatest rewards and the quickest path to the goal(sometimes most laden with secrets along the way as well).

The reason you get frustrated with spikes and pits and other brickwall obstacles is that the lower routes usually act as a form of punishment. They are designed to often be a bit slower, force the player to pause and consider ways to reach higher ground again to get back to the loop-de-loops and ramps and coin staches, etc...

The games don't spell it out really, so I understand it can be alarming and confounding for players to think "push right, go fast, WTF not working!!??" but there is skill in trying to balance speed and keep on that chosen route. The satisfaction and thrills are seeped in doing so. Give it a try next play.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

The goal is to get to the end of the stage.

100 rings add a life. If you get hit, you lose rings. If you get hit with no rings, you die.

The end.

Some of these questions seem weird. I've always preferred Mario but it's like asking if you should kill all enemies in Mario, if you should go down every pipe, if you should get Yoshi, if you should collect coins, etc.

Just play the game. You'll figure it out.

 

[Dead End Irony]

Complaining you can't go fast on your first playthrough without learning the levels is like complaining you can't just walk through a souls game without dying immediately.

Spoiler

To go fast you need to git gud

It's amazing how many people can't understand this. And it's not like you instantly die when you run into the obstacle. The rings are there to allow you to make mistakes. You can collect the rings you just lost. These rings are the same rings you likely won't lose when you learn the level and blast through it the second or third time around.

 

[LegendofLex]

It's not especially different than Mario games. It's a platformer but with a different IP and different gameplay gimmicks.

You can run through most levels and breeze past most obstacles.

You can take it slower and try to get all the items and trounce all the enemies, which can be rewarding (power ups + Rings + lives) but opens you up to more risk.

You can take easy paths or hard paths, depending on whether you're observant enough to spot branches in the level design.

Sonic's speed is mostly a character gimmick to go with some of the level design choices like loops, rapid-fire tubes, and slopes that either require or force sustained momentum. You go fast because there's an obstacle in your way that requires you to so you can get to places you couldn't otherwise, or because you started running down a slope and picked up tons of momentum (that you can usually use to get to high ground).

But at its heart, Sonic is just another platformer.

 

[Waluigilicious]

Thanks OP. Well worded and shouldn't upset too many people. I don't get it either. It's a platformer but should I just go fast? I don't understand if there is any point in exploring or not.

 

[Youngfossil]

I always thought the goal was to get the end of the level before the time ran out. Everything else was just side quests.

 

[oti]

"wait so mario jumps? so i just keep jumping? look he jumped into a hole! what terrible game design."

Perfect comparison.
Well done.
10/10.

 

[RagnarokX]

Sounds to me like somebody's got a case of the sposdas.

You're not supposed to play Sonic any way. That's an issue why Sonic games have failed to capture what the Classic games captured. They've been up their ass with Sonic supposed to be about going fast and getting the best times and only really catering to that gameplay style.

Sonic is a video game. You play it how you want. Want to go fast and try to get the best times? Want to get to the end at a leisurely pace? Want to explore and find bonus stages to get Super and the best ending? Do whatever. There's no right way to play. Trying to force yourself to play a certain way will make the game suck; like trying to go fast on your first play when you're unfamiliar with mechanics and patterns is sure to spell disaster (see Sonic Mania leaker).

 

[jph139]

I've never really been able to get into 2D Sonic because it's level design and gameplay seem to be pulling in two different directions. The levels are huge and complex and sprawling, but trying to move precisely with Sonic is hard - he feels sluggish when you're at "base speed."

Usually I just end up zooming through the levels, which is what the gameplay seems to suggest, butdon't feel like I'm accomplishing anything. I haven't faced and surmounted any challenges, I've just sort of blindly bounced along to the end. If you fail on one path, you just end up on another, completely unrelated one.

They've extremely unorthodox platformers. It's interesting how they were able to build such a huge franchise out of them.

 

[IronicSonic]

Talking about overthinking

Just play the game.

 

[digitalrelic]

This thread is nonsense and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

I somehow figured this out at 6 years old...

why do you need the game to tell you how do to everything especially in something as simple as sonic?

This is what happens when game developers neglect to add tutorials and fun QTE prompts.

When will they learn

How do you people make it through the day

I think I was 5

But hey, don't worry OP. I'm sure you're great at.... Shadows of Mordor.

What even is this thread?

They're straight forward platformers.

It astounds me that a game series with five discrete actions the player can do at most is so hard for some people to wrap their heads around.

You can run. You can jump. You can roll into a ball by pressing down. That's the extent of the knowledge you need to play these games.

Is this confusion a generational thing? I'm too old.

Good lord. I knew how to play sonic games when I was like 8 years old. Didn't need outside information for help. I just, you know, played the fucking game.

All of the arrogant, patronizing shitposting is really helpful guys, thanks.

This series' entire identity revolves around speed. The focus of the game seems to be, at least judging by advertisements and such, to complete a level as fast as humanly possible. Sonic's all about that speed and Mario is slow and old, right? So when the game's entire focus is supposedly on speed, it seems counterintuitive to have vast areas that are just ripe for exploration and secret rewards that would benefit the gameplayer. These areas are just completely skipped if you play the game that way it's advertised. It seems to me that you'd miss out on literally the majority of the game if you just played it for speed.

I'm in my 30s by the way and I've been an avid game player for about 27 years.

Thank you op for putting to words what I could not. I don't get Sonic games either. The "schtick," for lack of a better word, is the speed. Look how fast you can go compared to boring old jumpy Mario. Zoom zoom zoom. Oh wait, but if you go too fast for too long and start having too much fun you'll run into spikes and lose everything you've collected. Ha-ha you can't go fast, you have to be slow and methodical after all.

Until you get to the next point where you get to go blazing fast again only to fall into a lava pit or fly into an enemy. The game tells you that you can go super excitingly fast, but then punishes you for doing just that.

Don't get it.

This poster said it well, too.

 

[family_guy]

Just get to the end. It's been decades, but you had to do something special to be Super Sonic, but outside of that, collecting coins and stuff wasn't important.

 

[RM8]

Many people obviously disagree, but yeah, I think the classic Sonic formula is just not very intuitive. It feels kind of wrong to go slow, because of the way Sonic accelerates. The only Sonic game I've enjoyed is the very first one, because I feel like it doesn't push you that hard to go fast. It felt more like a traditional platformer.